On 01/04/2013 at 02:35, Webber said:

I hear your frustration Sdemon, but what player do you imagine doesn't want to give 150 % as you call it? It's just froth and bubble nonsense this idea of giving them ultimatums. They get onto AFL lists BECAUSE they have talent AND diligence AND application. Our list is not exceptional in being somehow less prepared to work hard. That's why coaches are there, to ferment those qualities and unify them into a team. Our coach and his staff are just NOT doing that, and ultimatums without inspiration and confidence are just pointless.

Webber you are spot on. There is not enough fermenting happening at our club. We should train as we play under our coaches. However the coaches cannot run out onto the ground. Once the players cross that white line it is up to them. It seems our lot get stage fright in front of a small crowd. God knows what will happen next week with a crowd of 50,000 or more.

One comment by Barry Hall really hurt and that was that when the Port players ran to the bench they where spent where as the Melbourne players had plenty left in the tank. What does that tell you?

  On 01/04/2013 at 01:45, Webber said:

We will lose both these games, and the carnage on here, in the media and by public opinion will be brutal. I am nonplussed by those who imagine the board have anything whatsoever to do with how the coaching staff manage the players, prepare for game day, and execute on the day.

The truth is that there has been admin stability at the club since the fallout from 186. What we got yesterday is about FOOTBALL, not boards or committees. The players are totally uninspired, devoid of natural competitive instinct ( with precious few exceptions) and have the most woeful lack of confidence. Give it half a dozen games and Jack Viney and Matt Jones will have had all the desire and instinct sucked out of them too.

It just HAS to be a coaching issue, and whether Royal is rubbish, or Craig or Rawlings, who knows, but Mark Neeld is the boss cookie, and he has shown ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as a legitimate coach to this point, other than the worst team approach and application to AFL/VFL football since I first saw the Dees in 1971. I remember the consensus on our list when John Northey came was that it was average at best, and what did he do with them? The opposite of Neeld. So it's not that our players are born unskilled, unsure, or timid, or that the board are somehow infecting them, it's the way they are COACHED!!!!!!!!

Have to agree with that the coach has said these are his players and this is his list, so if they fail then so has he.

We have traded some players that had some potential for some who have none, or are past their prime, I would have preferred to have a couple of extra kids that we could develop than players that will be lucky to last a season. The problem is does the coach admit that his experiment failed or does he persist with mediocrity.

If we are going to get beat at least get the kids who may be ok a few games to show what they are like. Neeld said we need experienced players to show the kids the way well they showed them something yesterday and it wasn't pretty.

If the Board gets involved in the FD we get cries of complaint from all and sundry, if they don't the same people ask why they aren't.

The Board asked a panel to come up with a coach and they chose Bailey, they then asked a former club legend and he chose Neeld. The difference at the moment is just a timing issue, one's gone and the other probably will go.

They asked Jack Watts what he players discussed behind closed doors and he said he couldn't comment, so they asked him what he felt they needed to do to turn it around next week and he said "mindset, they need to change their mindset"; just wtf does that mean; they are capable but just didn't approach the game in the right frame of mind?

Straight from the Cameron Bruce school of stock answers.

In 2008 Fremantle were told by their biggest ever star that if Schwab was not removed then he himself was leaving. Must have taken a fair bit for a player to make a threat like that. Our club was told the same thing by many players in 2011 and didn't follow through and act. I was told by a former player at the end of last season that until Schwab leaves nobody wants to play for the club (he conceeded that maybe with less meddling the younger player may not be as disenchanted as the senior ones). My comment to this guy was just how unfair is that...we the supporters are the ones that have to suffer through this division. And at least if we knew for sure that it was all behind us now we could try to reconcile the poor performances knowing there are brighter days ahead.

I have no political agenda, and yes, agree that the tail shouldn't wag the dog. It does however seem that there is a common thread with disenchanted players and for the benefit of the club it really shouldn't be ignored. I don't give a flying f%&k how they do it but the club needs to sort this out. If the playing group still has a beef with this guy, and it can't be reconciled, then the resolution is an obvious one.

  On 01/04/2013 at 03:44, rufus said:

In 2008 Fremantle were told by their biggest ever star that if Schwab was not removed then he himself was leaving. Must have taken a fair bit for a player to make a threat like that. Our club was told the same thing by many players in 2011 and didn't follow through and act. I was told by a former player at the end of last season that until Schwab leaves nobody wants to play for the club (he conceeded that maybe with less meddling the younger player may not be as disenchanted as the senior ones). My comment to this guy was just how unfair is that...we the supporters are the ones that have to suffer through this division. And at least if we knew for sure that it was all behind us now we could try to reconcile the poor performances knowing there are brighter days ahead.

I have no political agenda, and yes, agree that the tail shouldn't wag the dog. It does however seem that there is a common thread with disenchanted players and for the benefit of the club it really shouldn't be ignored. I don't give a flying f%&k how they do it but the club needs to sort this out. If the playing group still has a beef with this guy, and it can't be reconciled, then the resolution is an obvious one.

What does a CEO have to do with the players and what could Schwabb have done to pi5s the players off? I have heard plenty on here about sacking Schwabb and if he is the infection he HAS to be removed immediately.

  On 01/04/2013 at 02:49, rjay said:

The only thing stable has been the same CEO overseeing a traumatic couple of years at a minimum in part his own doing. Hardly a stable time for the club and hardly what I would call stable administration. TankingEnergywatch3 coachesContinuing bad pressPoor on field performance to name a few

That's NOT evidence of unstable administration.

  On 01/04/2013 at 02:53, Range Rover said:

How much more evidence do you need than being rooted to the bottom of the ladder, destined for the wooden spoon. Again.

Nor is this....

  On 01/04/2013 at 02:55, timmyo64 said:

it takes a lot to make it as player in the league then it does to get onto a list, something a lot of our players don't understand. what he says is not nonsense at all. look at a good team, they earn a 50 metre penalty in their defensive half, every player will bust a gut to get up the ground and make options. this happens to melbourne the players jog up the ground, by the time the jog is over the OPP has set its structures, it's as if we are literally there for them to practice their set ups. if they had that 150% work ethic this wouldn't be a problem. THEY ARE JUST LAZY..NOT GAME PLAN ISSUES.

So you're saying MFC has an exclusive knack for bringing lazy players to the club? Wake up.

  On 01/04/2013 at 05:26, Webber said:

That's NOT evidence of unstable administration.

Absolute rubbish mate, absolute rubbish. As I said the only thing stable about this admin is having the same CEO and that's not a good enough recommendation for me.

At the end of the day look at the results, if you want to keep getting these results stick with the same bloke. Keep fiddling while Rome burns.

  On 01/04/2013 at 05:40, rjay said:

Absolute rubbish mate, absolute rubbish. As I said the only thing stable about this admin is having the same CEO and that's not a good enough recommendation for me.

At the end of the day look at the results, if you want to keep getting these results stick with the same bloke. Keep fiddling while Rome burns.

Colour me stupid if you want, but if the FD is operating independently of the Administration, then what influence would the Board and CEO have on the coach and the playing group?

I understand you're looking or a thread to tie in to our continued poor performance, but is there anything to show that this is it?

It's always been my belief that our continued association with the MCC is more likely to be the cause of our years of Amateurish performance; sometimes I think playing at the MCG is like a millstone around our neck.

  On 01/04/2013 at 05:40, rjay said:

Absolute rubbish mate, absolute rubbish. As I said the only thing stable about this admin is having the same CEO and that's not a good enough recommendation for me.

At the end of the day look at the results, if you want to keep getting these results stick with the same bloke. Keep fiddling while Rome burns.

The CEO's results are impressive, especially given the coach and players results have sucked so badly.

Get a clue, ditching the CEO will not make our players and coach better. FFS.

  On 01/04/2013 at 05:49, stuie said:

The CEO's results are impressive, especially given the coach and players results have sucked so badly. Get a clue, ditching the CEO will not make our players and coach better. FFS.

Exactly.

  On 01/04/2013 at 00:40, kuremmm said:

Should have hired Sheedy, Choco or Eade when we had the chance.

yep.

Was Schwabb involved in the Football department a few years back and was then removed from that responsibility? After 186 there have been words flying around that the players were unhappy with the CEO and that maybe 186 was a form of protest from the players. I'm sure others have talked to Tigers and Dockers fans who say Schwabb was terrible at their clubs. I don't want to start another thread due to the huge amount already here but has anyone heard why Schwabb is so bad? What has he done to pi55 the players off? What did he do so wrong at other clubs? He is the constant at the club over the last few years. I want to know if their is a problem.

Am I being completely silly in thinking they should be phoning a bloke like Jeff Kennent to have a look at things and provide some advice, asstiance.

If we don't do something drastic soon I feel like we will potentially be relocated, merged, gone or even have the AFL take us over.

  On 01/04/2013 at 05:49, stuie said:

The CEO's results are impressive, especially given the coach and players results have sucked so badly.

Get a clue, ditching the CEO will not make our players and coach better. FFS.

The culture is set from the top and the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We are a football club who exist to win football games and ultimately flags, if the club is failing in that then all of the senior positions in the club must be held accountable. Show me a successful club in the last few years that had an incompetent admin? Or show me an incompetent club that had a great admin? There seem to be some sacred cows around the club which is a large part of the problem of our culture. It is debatable whether Schwab and co have even done a good job off-field let alone great but if the team continues its slide into irrelevancy they must be held accountable regardless of the fact they're not the ones out on the field each week.

  On 01/04/2013 at 07:10, Dr. Gonzo said:

The culture is set from the top and the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We are a football club who exist to win football games and ultimately flags, if the club is failing in that then all of the senior positions in the club must be held accountable. Show me a successful club in the last few years that had an incompetent admin? Or show me an incompetent club that had a great admin? There seem to be some sacred cows around the club which is a large part of the problem of our culture. It is debatable whether Schwab and co have even done a good job off-field let alone great but if the team continues its slide into irrelevancy they must be held accountable regardless of the fact they're not the ones out on the field each week.

It's simple. Our performances on field are what has made us irrelevant.

  On 01/04/2013 at 06:04, cowboy_from_hell said:

Was Schwabb involved in the Football department a few years back and was then removed from that responsibility? After 186 there have been words flying around that the players were unhappy with the CEO and that maybe 186 was a form of protest from the players. I'm sure others have talked to Tigers and Dockers fans who say Schwabb was terrible at their clubs. I don't want to start another thread due to the huge amount already here but has anyone heard why Schwabb is so bad? What has he done to pi55 the players off? What did he do so wrong at other clubs? He is the constant at the club over the last few years. I want to know if their is a problem.

From what I can gather the problem they have is he tries to micro manage FD issues when he has no expertise in this field. See the Whiteboard Wednesday's he thinks he has the brains/abilities to be a soccer style football manager when his only real skill seems to be being a slick talker.

Hands up all those who think we have a good midfield. Hands up all those who think we have a good list. Hands up all those who think we have good disposal.

I think we are the worst in the AFL in all three areas.

Who do I blame, I blame the recruiting manager over the last 5-6 years. I don't think any Coach can turn crap into cream.

How was Clarkson going early on at the Hawks, hopeless, then came Buddy, Lewis, Cyril, Roughy, Hale, Gibson, etc etc etc, now he is a great Coach.

Our recruiting has been littered with more abject failures than any other club. A half decent recruiter could have set us up with a competitive team, with all of the picks we have had.

The Board aren't running out on the ground.

The coaching staff have everything they have asked for. We have FIVE coaches that have coached at the highest level.

The players have no drive, heart, smarts, hunger, desperation or will to attack the footy. They are truly pathetic.

  On 01/04/2013 at 07:13, stuie said:

It's simple. Our performances on field are what has made us irrelevant.

And the board/CEO/President appoint those who deliver the on field performances so ultimately the responsibility lies at their feet.

  On 01/04/2013 at 07:13, Dr. Gonzo said:

From what I can gather the problem they have is be tries to micro manage FD issues when he has no expertise in this field. See the Whiteboard Wednesday's he thinks he has the brains/abilities to be a soccer style football manager when his only real skill seems to be being a slick talker.

Exactly. The actual tangible proof of sponsors, facilities, and the business side of MFC say that Schwab has done his job well. It's only the people who say "I've heard..." or "the rumour is..." or even "from what I can gather" that are calling for the sacking of our CEO.

Ridiculous.

  On 01/04/2013 at 06:39, Cards13 said:

Am I being completely silly in thinking they should be phoning a bloke like Jeff Kennent to have a look at things and provide some advice, asstiance.

If we don't do something drastic soon I feel like we will potentially be relocated, merged, gone or even have the AFL take us over.

No not silly. Completely insane.

  On 01/04/2013 at 07:15, Dr. Gonzo said:

And the board/CEO/President appoint those who deliver the on field performances so ultimately the responsibility lies at their feet.

And WE vote for the board etc, so I guess, following your logic, we should sack ourselves... Dumb.

  On 01/04/2013 at 07:15, stuie said:

Exactly. The actual tangible proof of sponsors, facilities, and the business side of MFC say that Schwab has done his job well. It's only the people who say "I've heard..." or "the rumour is..." or even "from what I can gather" that are calling for the sacking of our CEO.

Ridiculous.

Show me the proof you speak of? Sponsors? Nup they've had to go begging supporters to try and line these up for them as they have failed miserably to lure any and have lost some such as Hankook who were led by rusted on supporters. Facilities? This was set up by the previous admin and is definitely not something Schwab or McLardy can take credit for. Business side of MFC? This is extremely vague and doesn't count for much but if you're talking of profit/loss we have struggled to make threadbare profits each year and have only done so due to supporters donating money in unprecedented amounts. This is not a long term sustainable business plan so this area is a big fail also. We will make a loss this year as well which is another cross for "business side" of the club.