I think wines would have addressed our immediate deficiency .... OUR MIDFIELD. So I believe we should have taken him and had a solid long term duo in our midfield of Viney and Wines. Wines is solid and ready and had an equal amount of contested footy along with Viney.

Jimmy will be a top player I have no doubt but for me with those guys is always the go home factor.... And being the rabble we are that will always be a concern ! We got smashed in the middle today utterly smashed wines would have been handy in the red and blue.

What's happened to Jamar !!! Week as [censored] !!! He once crashed and bashed in the contest .... Now he's pathetic. Bring in spencer and gawn !

I mentioned this elsewhere, but having seen quite a bit of Toumpas, he is an icing on cake sort of player. Reminds me of Camporeale at Carlton, although not as quick. Our greatest weakness (and we have many) is actually getting the ball. Wines does this very well. Toumpas would be excellent in a good side. At the moment we are not that. Wines was my preference last year for this reason alone. I think Toumpas will be a very good player but right now, I'd prefer Wines for where we are at.

Give him a go. There's no way he should be judged on that. And keep playing him.

this thread blows. imagine viney in ports team today? imagine watts or even garland in ports team today? right now melbourne can suck my dick but dont start threads focusing on the performance of rookies in their first game in this joke of a team

No offence to young Jimmy. I sure he is a lovely bloke and will be a good footballer. However I think we made a grave error in not drafting Ollie Wines. He had a ripper game. Can take a great overhead mark too. I know it's early days but Wines is ready to go now.

I said to my mate there were three guarantees on Demonland post game. A sack Neeld thread, an overturn the board thread and a "we should have taken Wines instead if Toumpas" thread. Thanks for completing the trifecta.

I dont agree. But time will tell. Toumpas was playing in a crap side with no structure and total chaos. Viney is unusually good for a first game player. The norm is little impact - even Wayne carey's first game was unremarkable and i was there.

Wines had a great game today, Brett Goods was up there with BOG for the doggies.

A lot of people say Toumpas would have played well in a good side. Lets see how our other #4 pick in Calendar Morton going in WA.

Wines should have been our #4 pick, Wines and Viney today would have been... Oh we'll.

I don't think people are getting the point here. It's not having a dig at Jimmy T, it's questioning the people who chose him over Wines. Wines has the work ethic, physical strength and mongrel aggression that is missing from the midfield. As mentioned above, Toumpas will be a great player, but is he the type if player melbourne need to lift right now? No. Is Wines? Yes.

I remember a similarly themed "We should have drafted Kane Tenace" after his first game in 2004.

You don't make these calls after one game. You wait.

FCS - the poor bugger has played ONE, 1, game, in a spiritless spineless capitulation from the first bounce whereas the other guy has played ONE, 1, game in a spirited TEAM. Of course the latter is going to look better.

Ridiculous post.

Consider revisiting after 20 or 50 games.

I think we made a good call. Oldie Wines is a beast, and he played very well today. He is as hard at it as Viney and with enormous power for his age. His flaw is his kicking. It is up and under and lacks penetration and accuracy. We could do with his frenetic attack on the contested ball but Viney has this too. Viney's kicking is a little better but still flawed. Toumpas, on the other hand, has sublime kicking and showed some moments of real class today. He knows what to do with the ball and showed decision making beyond his years. In amongst the dumbness of our team he lpoked pretty good.

I think we made a good call. Oldie Wines is a beast, and he played very well today. He is as hard at it as Viney and with enormous power for his age. His flaw is his kicking. It is up and under and lacks penetration and accuracy. We could do with his frenetic attack on the contested ball but Viney has this too. Viney's kicking is a little better but still flawed. Toumpas, on the other hand, has sublime kicking and showed some moments of real class today. He knows what to do with the ball and showed decision making beyond his years. In amongst the dumbness of our team he lpoked pretty good.

Toumpas missed a free shot at goal.

This thread is a bit unfair. I think after the past few years we have earned every right to question the club's drafting decisions, especially early first rounders, but let's give the kid the rest of this year before saying things like this.

We knew full well going into today that Wines was more 'ready made' than Toumpas, so it was to be expected that he looked more comfortable at the level, especially when he is on the side doing things that easily in the middle, while Toumpas was surrounded by garbage. I think Wines will be a very good player obviously, but let's at least give Toumpas a chance before these sort of threads.

I think it's Jimmy T who should be asking if he got drafted to the wrong club?

Good to see some people are focusing on the real problems being faced by this club right now.

Up there with the trumpeter drama this is.

Poor kid had one game, and his team lose by 79 points. I think I'll give him two more before I scrap him.

Also LOL at the Hogan comment. He is already better than the spuds that are Sellar, Pederson and Gilles and has the potential to be much better than Dawes and even Clark himself.

Not getting involved in the whole "did we make the wrong decision" banter, but Jimmy really seemed to lack a motor (mentioned this in an earlier thread); but this can be developed.

Wasn't entirely impressed seeing him standing around with his hands on hips as early as the second quarter, although the senior players weren't exactly setting a good example. It's sad that an 18 year old is not only our best player, but also seemingly our hardest trier.

South Australian boy though... knowing our luck, if he pans out he'll be Scotty Thompson 2.0

someone please set me straight here:

wines: vic boy, grew up with viney, had melbourne ticked as a club he would go to

toumpas: south aus boy. thats it.

both almost identical draft positions

Toumpas was not ready today

Played limited time in round 1 kicked a goal.

did not do much in round 3 v the Saints struggled is what all reports were saying.

I said in a early thread he should be made to earn his spot, consecutive best on grounds at Casey then he should get a call up.

Not just because he is a early round draft pick, we have made this mistake time and time again Watts Queens birthday 09.

In saying that Toumpas is our least worry.

But I would have liked to see Wines in the red and blue

Stil early to tell, Wines looks the goods and he sure stuck it up our recruiters today!

toumpas showed a few really good things, but also if anyone expected him to come into a game and get 25 touches and lay 5 tackles they were thinking of the wrong player.

did we have an outside game today, no, was he often in space, the next kick on, yes.

he will be a jet, no knock on ollie wines though because he is a going to be a gun to, but let him play more than one game, more than one season, let him play 5 years-10 years then we can judge him

No offence to young Jimmy. I sure he is a lovely bloke and will be a good footballer. However I think we made a grave error in not drafting Ollie Wines. He had a ripper game. Can take a great overhead mark too. I know it's early days but Wines is ready to go now.

Totally agree, said so when they drafted him, Wines should have been our pick, we have stuffed up every draft in the last 5-6 years. Could had Cotchin before $cummy and Trengrove

toumpas showed a few really good things, but also if anyone expected him to come into a game and get 25 touches and lay 5 tackles they were thinking of the wrong player.

mustve been thinkin of some guy called viney or something?

Not sure if anyone else saw how filthy he was with himself after he came off for the first time. He was being rotated having just fumbled the ball. He came off and he swore at himself. He was livid at making a mistake, in what was probably his first possession at AFL level.

Show me a single senior player in our team who cares this much and I'll be happy. Maybe we wouldn't be so effing terrible if we had more players who demanded perfection from themselves.

So lets cut him some slack FFS. He will be fine.

mustve been thinkin of some guy called viney or something?

yeh, an inside midfielder, with a body ready made to play afl!

definitely viney

Its the whole Trengrove Martin Debate

Trengrove & Toumpas so similar both SA boys, boy played senior footy, good skills,

Dustin Martin Oliver Wines Huge ,strong ,explosive, mature bodies

I fear we keep repeating history

I said a couple of days ago that Toumpas would frustrate a lot of supporters, it's because he is not Wines. Let him settle and he will be what we want, a class player with good finishing skills.