Reserving judgement until he has played well in a final when we have been crap since he started is simply lame. Most fans (other than Melbourne) would seriously doubt we would play finals during his career. If he won a Charlie, got three AAs and captained the club by age 32 but didn't play a final, does that mean he is a disappointment?

No, I'm just happy we have a good player who may become great. I don't care if you class him as a "forward failure", I class him as a "football pass". Do you consider Tom McDonald a "ruck failure"? Fortunately for us, MFC are working on his football potential and skill and haven't just cut him because he's not Nick Riewoldt.

A former pick 1 is a "football pass" ? Aren't we lucky. And you say "may become GREAT". I've never seen a GREAT player that had no ticker. Never. You're dreaming. Unless, of course, your idea of "great" and mine vastly differ. And that would be no GREAT surprise.

Btw, Tom McDonald was never going to ruck at AFL level, other than the odd forward duty. And the investment in him was much much less.

Just forget it Stue. We're poles apart in how we view footy.

Reserving judgement until he has played well in a final when we have been crap since he started is simply lame. Most fans (other than Melbourne) would seriously doubt we would play finals during his career. If he won a Charlie, got three AAs and captained the club by age 32 but didn't play a final, does that mean he is a disappointment?

How about I reserve judgment until he puts his body on the line. AND I also said, "plays well regularly against top sides", or did you miss that bit ?

A former pick 1 is a "football pass" ? Aren't we lucky. And you say "may become GREAT". I've never seen a GREAT player that had no ticker. Never. You're dreaming. Unless, of course, your idea of "great" and mine vastly differ. And that would be no GREAT surprise.

Btw, Tom McDonald was never going to ruck at AFL level, other than the odd forward duty. And the investment in him was much much less.

Just forget it Stue. We're poles apart in how we view footy.

We sure are poles apart. You seem to think because someone is a number 1 pick they're going to dominate games by the time they're 20. Silly.

You've gone from talking about you're expectations of him as a forward, which I squashed with the McDonald example, to now trying to say it's about the expectations of a number 1 pick... how about giving up your expectations and just enjoy watching a very young MFC player with huge upside develop into a great of the club.

I assume this is directed at me.

Not just you.

And not just on this site.

No, I'm just happy we have a good player who may become great. I don't care if you class him as a "forward failure", I class him as a "football pass". Do you consider Tom McDonald a "ruck failure"? Fortunately for us, MFC are working on his football potential and skill and haven't just cut him because he's not Nick Riewoldt.

I believe he'll be traded at season's end.

A training thread being hijacked into a jak watts thread.. FFS can we lock this now!

We sure are poles apart. You seem to think because someone is a number 1 pick they're going to dominate games by the time they're 20. Silly.

You've gone from talking about you're expectations of him as a forward, which I squashed with the McDonald example, to now trying to say it's about the expectations of a number 1 pick... how about giving up your expectations and just enjoy watching a very young MFC player with huge upside develop into a great of the club.

Jeez you talk crap mate.

EDIT: I should elaborate. It's not just that he's been underwhelming as a footballer and been shown up as soft, but he's also a mile behind the truly great talents at the same age. Franklin kicked 100 goals at 21, Carey was a star at 21 and I could go on and on and on.

And none of them were as soft as a marshmallow.

A former pick 1 is a "football pass" ? Aren't we lucky. And you say "may become GREAT". I've never seen a GREAT player that had no ticker. Never. You're dreaming. Unless, of course, your idea of "great" and mine vastly differ. And that would be no GREAT surprise.

Btw, Tom McDonald was never going to ruck at AFL level, other than the odd forward duty. And the investment in him was much much less.

Just forget it Stue. We're poles apart in how we view footy.

C'mon guys, Patch it up.

Don't forget the good times.

You guys were like Tango and Cash.

C'mon guys, Patch it up.

Don't forget the good times.

You guys were like Tango and Cash.

Yeah. It's odd Biffo. We are innocent of getting off topic. Perhaps, even though he is a new found friend, it was always Stuie's fault.

Jeez you talk crap mate.

EDIT: I should elaborate. It's not just that he's been underwhelming as a footballer and been shown up as soft, but he's also a mile behind the truly great talents at the same age. Franklin kicked 100 goals at 21, Carey was a star at 21 and I could go on and on and on.

And none of them were as soft as a marshmallow.

So every number 1 pick should be either Franklin or Carey or gtfo? Geez mate, get a clue, then you'll have 1 in total.

Yeah. It's odd Biffo. We are innocent of getting off topic. Perhaps, even though he is a new found friend, it was always Stuie's fault.

That love in didn't last long... Maybe you should talk to Dank about your performance issues

I believe he'll be traded at season's end.

And I believe I'm not going to believe any rumours you choose to post about a player you so clearly hate.

But nice try...

So every number 1 pick should be either Franklin or Carey or gtfo? Geez mate, get a clue, then you'll have 1 in total.

No, they were just examples of the MASSIVE gulf between Watts and truly elite AFL talents.

Not surprisingly you don't get it.

No, they were just examples of the MASSIVE gulf between Watts and truly elite AFL talents.

Not surprisingly you don't get it.

Quote me where I said Watts was "elite".... Geez mate, you're even confusing yourself now in your rush to get your big wang out

Quote me where I said Watts was "elite".... Geez mate, you're even confusing yourself now in your rush to get your big wang out

I never said you did. And that's the point. He's a mile off.

I never said you did. And that's the point. He's a mile off.

But if you want to compare every 21 year old player, INCLUDING number 1 draft picks, you won't find many that will stack up against Carey or Franklin, so I guess they ALL must be duds in your eyes. What a frustrated man you must be.

But if you want to compare every 21 year old player, INCLUDING number 1 draft picks, you won't find many that will stack up against Carey or Franklin, so I guess they ALL must be duds in your eyes. What a frustrated man you must be.

You really struggle with footy as a topic, which is surprising for someone who clearly loves the game.

When Melbourne selected Watts at pick one they were hoping to draft a STAR. And if you don't believe that was their expectation you're nuts.

Let's compare him to Dunstall, Nick and Jack Riewoldt, Lloyd, Brown, Brereton, Carey, Kernahan, Richardson, Franklin, Locket, Cloke (who won a B&F at 21) just for starters at the same age. All of these players were STARS, or border-line at 21, while Watts has courage issues, has been shunted to the back-line after being dropped to Casey and finishes 16th in the B&F.

You and many other supporters have dumbed down your expectations so much for your little darling that you have become completely delusional about his output and potential. Until he puts his body on the line he'll remain a monumental disappointment.

It's my last say on the matter with you Stue, as I don't get paid to spoon feed the footy stupid.

You really struggle with footy as a topic, which is surprising for someone who clearly loves the game.

When Melbourne selected Watts at pick one they were hoping to draft a STAR. And if you don't believe that was their expectation you're nuts.

Let's compare him to Dunstall, Nick and Jack Riewoldt, Lloyd, Brown, Brereton, Carey, Kernahan, Richardson, Franklin, Locket, Cloke (who won a B&F at 21) just for starters at the same age. All of these players were STARS, or border-line at 21, while Watts has courage issues, has been shunted to the back-line after being dropped to Casey and finishes 16th in the B&F.

You and many other supporters have dumbed down your expectations so much for your little darling that you have become completely delusional about his output and potential. Until he puts his body on the line he'll remain a monumental disappointment.

It's my last say on the matter with you Stue, as I don't get paid to spoon feed the footy stupid.

Haha well here comes the aeroplane little Benny, open wide...

As I said in my first reply to you, you were obviously expecting a monster forward, which is evident in the players you have listed, but what we have got is a good player who may become great, and THAT is the nature of the draft. If you don't understand that, then I truly hope you're not a betting man...

How about I reserve judgment until he puts his body on the line. AND I also said, "plays well regularly against top sides", or did you miss that bit ?

No, I did not miss that. Nor did I deny you said that. I was pointing out the lack of logic in using finals as a way to judge a player when he has played none.

Watts progressed well last year when he came back, and will continue to advance this year, and more the following. He played well against a number of sides last year, including vs the Swans, and has a very good chance of becoming one of our most important players in he next season or two. I don't care much for what the draft pick was any more. Once he plays for the MFC, I want him to play great football, as I do for every player on our list. If he becomes a strong, consistent contributor to the team, I'll be more than happy to see him play 250 games in the red and blue. He's on track

Your lack of any support is the main disappointment.

Omg Mods please just do your job now..

That love in didn't last long... Maybe you should talk to Dank about your performance issues

Now now Stuie don't turn on your true mates. We've all extended the olive branch in a true inclusive spirit and you're rebuffing us. You need to take a bex and have a bit of a lie down. Think of your blood pressure.

C'mon guys, Patch it up.

Don't forget the good times.

You guys were like Tango and Cash.

Or Turner and Hooch perhaps.

Question is, which one is Hooch?

Yeah. It's odd Biffo. We are innocent of getting off topic. Perhaps, even though he is a new found friend, it was always Stuie's fault.

I think Stuie was always undervalued in the relationship.

Ben is a maverick ,a wild brumby in the minefield of footy philosophy .

Stuie could never tame that horse .Why try ?

But it was beautiful when it was on .

I'm getting a bit teary at the thought of it being finished .

I think Stuie was always undervalued in the relationship.

Ben is a maverick ,a wild brumby in the minefield of footy philosophy .

Stuie could never tame that horse .Why try ?

But it was beautiful when it was on .

I'm getting a bit teary at the thought of it being finished .

You're too sentimental for your own good. And, I must say, Stuie seems very ungrateful - considering our generous overtures.