Do you really think he has got the best out of himself Stuie?

I don't. But his bank balance has prospered through those dark years.

He couldn't get a game against GW$.....

Yeah I do. He's a meat and potatoes player with good physical size but average skills. I honestly think he's gotten as much out of himself as he could, aside from this year when the challenges were different to normal and he couldn't find a way to make it work.

As for your comment about money... What should he do? Ask for a paycut because the club isn't performing but he is? Get a clue mate. He could have got just as much at another (more successful) club, but he loves the Dees and wanted to try and help MFC back to being a winning team. You can fault his form this year, even his abilities to cope with the modern game, but you can't fault his heart, and that is something we sorely miss as a club.

You have no point RR. Or substance, fact, or anything else resembling a useful poster.

You do your best to belittle everything about the club, then when challenged you resort to name calling like it's recess.

No Range doesn't belittle the club. He just wants it to become ruthless, tough & the best...like me.

Our recruiting since 1986 as BH has just alluded to in another thread has been deplorable.

Yeah I do. He's a meat and potatoes player with good physical size but average skills. I honestly think he's gotten as much out of himself as he could, aside from this year when the challenges were different to normal and he couldn't find a way to make it work.

As for your comment about money... What should he do? Ask for a paycut because the club isn't performing but he is? Get a clue mate. He could have got just as much at another (more successful) club, but he loves the Dees and wanted to try and help MFC back to being a winning team. You can fault his form this year, even his abilities to cope with the modern game, but you can't fault his heart, and that is something we sorely miss as a club.

Your only as good as your last game Stuie..that's life.

Beamers heart has not been at the Demons this year...but he still gets paid.

No Range doesn't belittle the club. He just wants it to become ruthless, tough & the best...like me.

Our recruiting since 1986 as BH has just alluded to in another thread has been deplorable.

I agree, our recruiting has been bad, and the reason we're all here is because we love the club and want it to be better.

But RR is just one of those ultra-negatives that generally only posts to put something down (unless it's about NikNat), and then tries to justify/disguise it by saying they're holding the club "accountable", and that is exactly the type of weak supporting I'm alluding to.

When challenged, or confronted with actual facts, he chooses to resort to name calling or some other form of distraction and then claims "victory"....

Your only as good as your last game Stuie..that's life.

Beamers heart has not been at the Demons this year...but he still gets paid.

Maybe we should go back to the days when all the players were full time tradies during the week, played VFL on Saturday arvo and had a beer and pie at half time hey?

Silly argument to go down the line of players getting paid.

It's called collateral damage Lord Travis. Neeld and co are attempting to change the culture and set standards. As Neeld said in his first player address, there will be some players who if they don't play the role he wants them to to the standard he'll set then they wont play.

Moloney seems to fall into that category. If he can't adjust to the new standards that the coach has in place then there's no spot for him in our team.

If these rumors are true, then I thank Beamer for his service. He'll always be a 100 game player, B&F winner and will always be welcome back at the club. But it's now a matter on getting the best return for Beamer as possible.

[media=]

Your post is spot on, TD.

That video is so instructive and it's worth watching every now and again. The message in the video applies equally to every player on the list, it just so happens that we are talking about Moloney at the moment.

The only other thing I'd say in response to your post is that the club won't be getting a direct return if another club makes an offer for Moloney and MFC chooses not to match it. Moloney can walk and MFC will get nothing. The only way MFC gets anything in return is if, at the end of the free agency period, the club loses more players to free agency than it gains. Then the AFL provides one or more draft picks by way of compensation. Personally, I don't see the point of compensation in a free agency arrangement, it kind of defeats the purpose of free agency (i.e. my boss wouldn't be compensated if I decided to work for another organisation). As a transitional thing to help clubs adapt to free agency, I don't mind it, so long as it isn't here to stay. I digress...

Your only as good as your last game Stuie..that's life.

Beamers heart has not been at the Demons this year...but he still gets paid.

You think Junior's heart was at GWS? Should he get paid?

Morton's heart was at Casey most of the year, should he get paid?

Most of our coaches were at other teams last year, should they get paid?

I agree, our recruiting has been bad, and the reason we're all here is because we love the club and want it to be better.

But RR is just one of those ultra-negatives that generally only posts to put something down (unless it's about NikNat), and then tries to justify/disguise it by saying they're holding the club "accountable", and that is exactly the type of weak supporting I'm alluding to.

When challenged, or confronted with actual facts, he chooses to resort to name calling or some other form of distraction and then claims "victory"....

No. RR is not negative at all. He is trying to wake people up.

The choice of Cook over Darling is depressing.

Cook may never make it. For his sake i hope he does, but Darling is a gun & a player we needed.

No. RR is not negative at all. He is trying to wake people up.

Oh no.... Even though we disagreed sometimes, I always respected your thoughts WYL.... Not so sure now...

You think Junior's heart was at GWS? Should he get paid?

Morton's heart was at Casey most of the year, should he get paid?

Most of our coaches were at other teams last year, should they get paid?

I am only talking about Beamer. And you know i am right.

He is not the king anymore so he cracked it.

Obvious. I predicted it on MFC facebook pages around jan/feb this year & got caned. I was right though sadly.

He should have left after 186. I beleive he was a main cog behind that insipid disgrace.

Oh no.... Even though we disagreed sometimes, I always respected your thoughts WYL.... Not so sure now...

I just call things as i see and feel things Stuie..

No. RR is not negative at all. He is trying to wake people up.

The choice of Cook over Darling is depressing.

Cook may never make it. For his sake i hope he does, but Darling is a gun & a player we needed.

RR wallows in negativity, doesn't suggest any solution to the issues he brings up.

I don't think there would be one person on this whole board who thinks we have recruited well in the last decade, but there is no point creating thread after thread about it because it achieves nothing. I don't think the list management guys are going to trawl demonland and think 'oh RR has started another thread, we better change our drafting strategy'. They are going to try and get it right every time and now that BP is gone all we can do is look to the draft with optimism and stop all this moping.

I am only talking about Beamer. And you know i am right.

He is not the king anymore so he cracked it.

Obvious. I predicted it on MFC facebook pages around jan/feb this year & got caned. I was right though sadly.

He should have left after 186. I beleive he was a main cog behind that insipid disgrace.

No, I know you're wrong.

You can't pick out Moloney as an example of a player being paid and not accept other examples. That just shows you have no argument.

And you want some credit for predicting our BnF would have a bad season? Oh well done mate, that's some fine supporting right there, way to get behind the team!

And you're going to mention 186 (aka 9/11) again are you? And now that is all Beamers fault too? Seriously mate, you're losing the plot. Although I'm pretty sure Beamer shot JFK, started the Ash Wednesday fires, and is bigfoot too.

...... He's a meat and potatoes player with good physical size but average skills. I honestly think he's gotten as much out of himself as he could, aside from this year when the challenges were different to normal and he couldn't find a way to make it work.

............

Pretty fair summary I would have thought.

His manager has indicated "he hasn't left yet", so he will sit down with the club and between them see if they can see a way that it can work better (and reach agreement on $s). If not, and there are offers elsewhere, then I guess he's off. For whatever reason, he has had a poor year; so its either fix it at MFC or try somewhere else.

Must say, if Moloney goes, and with lots of contracts front loaded, we will have sh!t loads of salary cap space. Presumably, we have some big fish in mind. Better.

No, I know you're wrong.

You can't pick out Moloney as an example of a player being paid and not accept other examples. That just shows you have no argument.

And you want some credit for predicting our BnF would have a bad season? Oh well done mate, that's some fine supporting right there, way to get behind the team!

And you're going to mention 186 (aka 9/11) again are you? And now that is all Beamers fault too? Seriously mate, you're losing the plot. Although I'm pretty sure Beamer shot JFK, started the Ash Wednesday fires, and is bigfoot too.

Take off your red & blue sunnies Stuie. Our list & performances are totally shocking. The only victorian sides we have beaten in 5 years are 9thmond & Essendung.

Nobody fears us.

What were beamers stats in 186?? 186 being a 31 goal loss.

He spent the 2nd half asleep in the rooms with the flu.

What a disgrace.

The thread is about Moloney but that doesn't mean you can't add context .

We'll just have to agree to disagree, or beg to differ, or agree to differ, or differ to misagreeance. I'm not going to get into a debate about semantics on the internet.

The following are the best three players from the match report of each match in which Moloney did not poll votes in 2011.

Round 2: Tapscott, Sylvia, Grimes

Round 6: Jamar, Garland, Watts.

Round 8: Martin, Sylvia, Frawley.

Round 9: Gyzberts, Evans, Watts.

Round 10: Rivers, Frawley, McDonald

Round 11: Gyzberts, McKenzie, Rivers.

Round 12: Sylvia, McDonald, Scully (Who?).

Round 13: Martin, Watts, Green.

Round 15: McKenzie, Petterd, Trengove.

Round 18: Martin, Green, Howe.

Round 19: McKenzie, Howe, Dunn.

Round 20: Watts, Trengove, Dunn.

Round 21: Frawley, McDonald, Howe.

Round 22: Sylvia, Jones, Moloney (finally - but with the year in junk time).

Take off your red & blue sunnies Stuie. Our list & performances are totally shocking. The only victorian sides we have beaten in 5 years are 9thmond & Essendung.

Nobody fears us.

What were beamers stats in 186?? 186 being a 31 goal loss.

He spent the 2nd half asleep in the rooms with the flu.

What a disgrace.

Am I saying our performances are good? Have I said I'm happy with this year? I'm devastated and can't remember ever being so down about my beloved club, but I'm on the reality bus, you should get on at the next stop mate!

Yes, Moloney played when he had the flu. He tried to play when he shouldn't have, what a crime to want to try and stick by your team mates! The one to blame is the club doctor who should have declared him unfit to play. That's the disgrace in the real world where I live.

No. RR is not negative at all. He is trying to wake people up.

The choice of Cook over Darling is depressing.

Cook may never make it. For his sake i hope he does, but Darling is a gun & a player we needed.

It's this simple - if Darling was on the market now, we would go hammer and tongs to get him.

Clark and Darling would make for a dangerous forward line.

Cook is playing Casey seconds.

I hope Cook makes it, but, on the face of it, we clearly stuffed this up.

Am I saying our performances are good? Have I said I'm happy with this year? I'm devastated and can't remember ever being so down about my beloved club, but I'm on the reality bus, you should get on at the next stop mate!

Yes, Moloney played when he had the flu. He tried to play when he shouldn't have, what a crime to want to try and stick by your team mates! The one to blame is the club doctor who should have declared him unfit to play. That's the disgrace in the real world where I live.

The reality bus is that Moloney cannot get a game for the club in 2012.

And the minute he walked over the white line down at Geelong last year..it was HIS responsibility to play. But of course he couldn't. Flu is Flu.

Selfish act. His stats were zero btw.

It's this simple - if Darling was on the market now, we would go hammer and tongs to get him.

Clark and Darling would make for a dangerous forward line.

Cook is playing Casey seconds.

I hope Cook makes it, but, on the face of it, we clearly stuffed this up.

Everyone agrees. It's done. Can't change it now, get over it. Point made. Full stop. Period.

Sheeeeeesh....

The reality bus is that Moloney cannot get a game for the club in 2012.

And the minute he walked over the white line down at Geelong last year..it was HIS responsibility to play. But of course he couldn't. Flu is Flu.

Selfish act. His stats were zero btw.

Take of the Bash Beamer Ray Ban's mate.... It was up to the team doctor to declare him unfit to play.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, or beg to differ, or agree to differ, or differ to misagreeance. I'm not going to get into a debate about semantics on the internet.

The following are the best three players from the match report of each match in which Moloney did not poll votes in 2011.

Round 2: Tapscott, Sylvia, Grimes

Round 6: Jamar, Garland, Watts.

Round 8: Martin, Sylvia, Frawley.

Round 9: Gyzberts, Evans, Watts.

Round 10: Rivers, Frawley, McDonald

Round 11: Gyzberts, McKenzie, Rivers.

Round 12: Sylvia, McDonald, Scully (Who?).

Round 13: Martin, Watts, Green.

Round 15: McKenzie, Petterd, Trengove.

Round 18: Martin, Green, Howe.

Round 19: McKenzie, Howe, Dunn.

Round 20: Watts, Trengove, Dunn.

Round 21: Frawley, McDonald, Howe.

Round 22: Sylvia, Jones, Moloney (finally - but with the year in junk time).

Whoever was giving out these 'Best' players was being ultra generous . Especially in round 19 against the Cats . I often struggle to come up with 1 good player in most of our losses (in the last 6 years) . But I'm a hard marker .

Happy to agree to disagree though, Tony . I'm sure there's many other issues where we'll be on the same page . It often happens that way on these forums .

Your only as good as your last game Stuie..that's life.

Beamers heart has not been at the Demons this year...but he still gets paid.

OK bring back Mclean, Bruce, Green, hell even Robbo while we're at it.

Sentiment is nice but only so far,,, after nearly 100 Yrs of failure and around 35 Yrs of success. 1929 - 1964...

http://en.wikipedia....ker'_Hughes

Hughes coached over an extended period with a great deal of success, securing 5 VFL premierships. When his friend and former Richmond Secretary Percy Page went to Melbourne Football Club Hughes followed him. He renamed the "Fuschias" to Demons, sacked 13 players and instilled discipline in the club.

http://en.wikipedia....ge_of_greatness

Coaching career

Disappointingly for Smith, the committee decided (by a single vote) to award the job to ex-Melbourne premiership skipper, Allan LaFontaine.

Anxious to begin coaching, Smith made an emotionally difficult decision to transfer to Fitzroy as captain-coach. He played only seventeen games with the 'Roys before retiring as a player in 1950. His time at Fitzroy was a mixed bag: the team was competitive without making the finals.

Meanwhile, Melbourne were struggling and LaFontaine resigned after three years.

So in 1952, Smith returned to Melbourne as coach. Benefiting from the recruitment of some of the best players in the club's history, Smith and Melbourne dominated the VFL for a decade, during which the club won six premierships: 1955-56-57, 1959–60 and 1964.

Coaching style

A stickler for team discipline, Smith was variously called the 'Demon Dictator' and the 'Martinet of Melbourne'. His canniness and brushed-back auburn hair earned him another nickname: the 'Red Fox'. Smith built his success on an espirit de corps, creating close-knit teams during Melbourne's years of greatness that were the envy of the other eleven clubs.

Many sought to emulate his methods and create a similar atmosphere for their own clubs. Norm and Len Smith (who coached Fitzroy from 1958 to 1962) led the move toward a quicker, play-on style of football. Melbourne sides under Smith were fast, disciplined, fit and confident.

The dismissal

From 1964 tension began to build between Smith and several influential figures at Melbourne. One factor was the decision by Melbourne's star player, Ron Barassi, to move to Carlton in 1965 as captain-coach.

Barassi lived with Smith and his wife from the time he was 15 – Barassi became the older man's protege and the two enjoying a unique relationship.

Smith supported Barassi's aspirations, offering to stand aside so Barassi could coach Melbourne.

When Barassi rejected this proposal and insisted on a clearance to the Blues, some Melbourne officials unfairly accused Smith of ridding himself of a potential rival.

Another factor was Smith's sometimes acid tongue, which he sometimes turned on committeemen he felt were interfering in his domain.

This facet of the Smith personality put him in a difficult situation when he was sued by an umpire for defamation. In defending the action,

Smith found no support from the men running his club.^[3][4]

Finally, the situation exploded on the Friday night before the round 13, 1965 match with North Melbourne. A courier delivered a termination notice to Smith at his home. When the news leaked to the media, it created a sensation, arguably the most dramatic news story in Australian football history.

In a matter of a few dramatic months, Melbourne's dominance was dismantled. The Demons wouldn't make the finals again until 1987,{http://en.wikipedia....#The_dismissal}

There's definitely a bigger distance between performance against top tier teams and lower tiers teams with Moloney than with other players. You just have to look at their average disposals from 2011:

First number is avg disposals in 2011 vs top 8 teams, second is vs teams outside it

Moloney: 21.4, 27.8 (excludes the 0 in the Geelong game, becomes 19.5 with it included)

Jones: 22.5, 23.7

Sylvia: 18.6, 22.9

McKenzie: 18.6, 21.4

Grimes: 23.5, 21.5 (excludes the Adelaide game)

Trengove: 19.4, 21.0

So what does this tell us? It does say he performed much better against the lower teams, but also that he's still one of our best performers at least in terms of disposals regardless.

Really it just says that you can use statistics to work for whatever agenda you like.

OK bring back Mclean, Bruce, Green, hell even Robbo while we're at it.

Sentiment is nice but only so far,,, after nearly 100 Yrs of failure and around 35 Yrs of success. 1929 - 1964...

http://en.wikipedia....ker'_Hughes

Hughes coached over an extended period with a great deal of success, securing 5 VFL premierships. When his friend and former Richmond Secretary Percy Page went to Melbourne Football Club Hughes followed him. He renamed the "Fuschias" to Demons, sacked 13 players and instilled discipline in the club.

http://en.wikipedia....ge_of_greatness

Coaching career

Disappointingly for Smith, the committee decided (by a single vote) to award the job to ex-Melbourne premiership skipper, Allan LaFontaine.

Anxious to begin coaching, Smith made an emotionally difficult decision to transfer to Fitzroy as captain-coach. He played only seventeen games with the 'Roys before retiring as a player in 1950. His time at Fitzroy was a mixed bag: the team was competitive without making the finals.

Meanwhile, Melbourne were struggling and LaFontaine resigned after three years.

So in 1952, Smith returned to Melbourne as coach. Benefiting from the recruitment of some of the best players in the club's history, Smith and Melbourne dominated the VFL for a decade, during which the club won six premierships: 1955-56-57, 1959–60 and 1964.

Coaching style

A stickler for team discipline, Smith was variously called the 'Demon Dictator' and the 'Martinet of Melbourne'. His canniness and brushed-back auburn hair earned him another nickname: the 'Red Fox'. Smith built his success on an espirit de corps, creating close-knit teams during Melbourne's years of greatness that were the envy of the other eleven clubs.

Many sought to emulate his methods and create a similar atmosphere for their own clubs. Norm and Len Smith (who coached Fitzroy from 1958 to 1962) led the move toward a quicker, play-on style of football. Melbourne sides under Smith were fast, disciplined, fit and confident.

The dismissal

From 1964 tension began to build between Smith and several influential figures at Melbourne. One factor was the decision by Melbourne's star player, Ron Barassi, to move to Carlton in 1965 as captain-coach.

Barassi lived with Smith and his wife from the time he was 15 – Barassi became the older man's protege and the two enjoying a unique relationship.

Smith supported Barassi's aspirations, offering to stand aside so Barassi could coach Melbourne.

When Barassi rejected this proposal and insisted on a clearance to the Blues, some Melbourne officials unfairly accused Smith of ridding himself of a potential rival.

Another factor was Smith's sometimes acid tongue, which he sometimes turned on committeemen he felt were interfering in his domain.

This facet of the Smith personality put him in a difficult situation when he was sued by an umpire for defamation. In defending the action,

Smith found no support from the men running his club.^[3][4]

Finally, the situation exploded on the Friday night before the round 13, 1965 match with North Melbourne. A courier delivered a termination notice to Smith at his home. When the news leaked to the media, it created a sensation, arguably the most dramatic news story in Australian football history.

I certainly didn't expect this reply!!!!