please let jack watts be fit this week. if i have to sit through another inept performance like that, please at least let me see a player that has the skills and vision required of an afl player. im sure if we were in finals contention he would have played tonight, but i dont think we can afford to leave him out. we need his skills, patience, and vision in the back line. especially next week, because i am sure that the ball will be down there at least 80% of the game.

Listened to the game on 774. Very, very disappointing. Look forward (?) to watching the replay on Internet tomorrow.

Would be a waste of your time. Seriously..we may as well have not been out there after quarter time.

That's me done for the season. Ill be back in October.

I have to! It's like a penance and it scars me less than self-flagellation. Then again, it scares me more. I'll be trying to whip up some enthusiasm.

As you said it... playing lists do NOT change dramatically... so either everyone was wrong and our list wasn't as good as everyone thought or the coach has actually made things worse. If we look at the development of players like jones, mcdonald, grimes, watts, nicholson, to some degree howe are you saying that our coaching panel has turned us backwards?

Honestly if you run through our list i rekon it was really over rated. Theres other threads looking at our list and the players haven't changed but we still have negative things to say about half of them which was still true last year.

We really needed a new coach and defensive structures to allow our team to develop and progress. It was hard watching today's game but hopefully after another full preseason, continued learning and development and hopefully recruiting some players with football smarts we can move forward.

Yep, front running players who have gotten away with it for years not running both ways, can make some appear better than what they are.

Adding defensive responsibilities to them may make them go backwards for a time.

The next Pre Season better make them improve markedly or were all in the schyte chute.

That's me done for the season. Ill be back in October.

Cricket and tennis??

I'm looking forward to the 2 week trade period, then the draft, get through some ham and turkey, go to some car shows in January, then it's NAB cup time!!!

Listened to the game on 774. Very, very disappointing. Look forward (?) to watching the replay on Internet tomorrow.

going to the dentist would be more fun!

I'd say it's because he doesn't have the fitness base to run around in the middle, especially in these conditions, and they wouldn't want to aggravate the 'hot spot' in the leg.

So I suppose the real question is, why the hell was he the sub?

Easing him into the side.

Bennell & Davey going down would have necessitated him coming in before they wanted to.

Blah this rubbish they serve up which they consider football is unbearable! Only 22 and the grey hairs are sprouting up viciously thanks to this joke of a team. Thanks for the pain dad! * Reaches for bottle of Jimmy*

going to the dentist would be more fun!

what do you mean, would be?

Going to the Dentist IS Fun,,,,, isn't it?

Edited July 22, 201213 yr by dee-luded

Jaded - Dunn did a good job in defence with 20+ possies at 95% efficiency. Don't knock him

absolutely baffles me that ppl are blaming neeld for our performances. he inherited a list of front runners, who would turn up 1 in 3 weeks at best, had no defensive side to their game, and were destined to win 6-10 games for the rest of their careers. how many of you were calling for an overhaul after last year? neeld is looking at players this year, and seeing for himself what they can do. there will be some major changes at the end of the year, but until then, we are going to experience a lot of pain.

hopefully though, its not as much pain as the players go through over the off season. if they thought it was hard this year, i think they are in for a shock next preseason. they will be pushed and pushed so that they realise what it takes to get to afl fitness standard. be great if they spend a bit of time on skills too!!

Two bad decisions. Bailey destroyed the list, Neeld is not the man to fix it up. The same posters with blind faith in Neeld had it in Bailey. Ceo has a history of failure, and board needs a shake up. Lucky the media deal needs 18 teams or Melbourne would be gone.

Neeld may or may not be a good coach, more time will tell, but one thing he definitely is is stubborn, too stubborn.

To not play Moloney and Morton, after decent performances at VFL level, when we were otherwise going in with a massively underdone team is either stubborn or stupid, and I very much doubt Neeld is stupid. (You can also look at the lack of changes, reaction during the game for this point too).

Fact is, we have a team bunch of players trying to learn new gameplans blah blah etc, being taught by a guy trying to learn how to coach. IF we get anywhere, it's going to be massively slow going, and frankly, I wonder if MFC will be around in 3 years if this continues, let alone the coach.

Something NEEDS to happen NOW. I don't know what exactly, and I have no influence on the club anyway, but someone needs to take control of this mess.

absolutely baffles me that ppl are blaming neeld for our performances. he inherited a list of front runners, who would turn up 1 in 3 weeks at best, had no defensive side to their game, and were destined to win 6-10 games for the rest of their careers. how many of you were calling for an overhaul after last year? neeld is looking at players this year, and seeing for himself what they can do. there will be some major changes at the end of the year, but until then, we are going to experience a lot of pain.

Mark Neeld is the coach, and has been for 10 months. Say what you want about the list, but HE is their leader, teacher, and organizer, and SO FAR he is failing in those roles.

The coach should be judged as much as the players and not just accepted because we like that he's a harda$$.

Accountability. Player and coach apologists, don't even set foot in here.

Not at all. the players and coach need to be given time . its all about the development of the game plan. they had a dip tonight. it was a good honest loss.

10 months. if you think that you can change what has been a problem for a long, long time in 10 months, then you are crazy. while i am shattered with our performances this year, i understand that what neeld is trying to do will take a lot longer that that. if 17 weeks into next year we have won 2 games, then ill be pointing the finger, but until then, i am 100% behind neeld and what he stands for.

Edited July 21, 201213 yr by leehow

Mark Neeld is the coach, and has been for 10 months.

Yep.... in the grand scheme of things hes been there 5 mins.

He surely needs to have the chance to influence th eselction of players whom he feels can carry out his vision of a game strategy. Hes started with Clark, a roaring success til injury struck. He needs far more able bodies , talented and intelligent players. In simple terms many more than currently on our books.

It takes time

Say what you want about the list, but HE is their leader, teacher, and organizer, and SO FAR he is failing in those roles.

No...the players are failing in THEIR roles.

The coach should be judged as much as the players and not just accepted because we like that he's a harda$$.

Yes , he should be judged....at the appropriate time. If say this time next year we are still the same, then we're going nowhere. Until that time his is still a job in progress.

10 months. if you think that you can change what has been a problem for a long, long time in 10 months, then you are crazy. while i am shattered with our performances this year, i understand that what neeld is trying to do will take a lot longer that that. if 17 weeks into next year we have won 2 games, then ill be pointing the finger, but until then, i am 100% behind neeld and what he stands for.

I'm right behind what Neeld stands for too, but he's not delivering what he promises. ("Hardest team to play against")

And I don't expect our problems to be fixed in 10 months, but I never imagined we'd go THIS FAR backwards and he needs to wear some of that.

Yep.... in the grand scheme of things hes been there 5 mins.

He surely needs to have the chance to influence th eselction of players whom he feels can carry out his vision of a game strategy. Hes started with Clark, a roaring success til injury struck. He needs far more able bodies , talented and intelligent players. In simple terms many more than currently on our books.

It takes time

No...the players are failing in THEIR roles.

Yes , he should be judged....at the appropriate time. If say this time next year we are still the same, then we're going nowhere. Until that time his is still a job in progress.

Don't get me wrong Bez, I really Neeld, love his attitude, and love what he SAYS he's trying to do, but we've gone so far backwards in the last 10 months that maybe he's not doing something right, and that should be taken into account rather than this attitude of "Neeld is definitely our man, no question".

And yes, the players are failing their roles, but they are roles the coach has set them.

I just worry that some are being too naive in thinking the coach has no blame in where we're at.

And just to explain, I'm not saying judge him and sack him, I'm just saying that maybe Neil Craig or someone similar has a chat to him about where he's at, what things he can change etc, heck maybe even Malthouse could help him out with that, just seems like he's going it alone and it's his way no matter what.

I'm right behind what Neeld stands for too, but he's not delivering what he promises. ("Hardest team to play against")

And I don't expect our problems to be fixed in 10 months, but I never imagined we'd go THIS FAR backwards and he needs to wear some of that.

did you really expect that we would become the "hardest team to play against" in a year? yes, we've gone backwards, but we needed to because we have players that have been coached by coaches that didnt teach our players any of the basic defensive aspects of the game. we had some great wins last year, but the majority of them came after massive losses and our players being challenged. neeld needs 2-3 years, and to be able to make the changes he thinks appropriate at the end of the year before we judge him. personally, i think that we will surprise a few ppl next year. with another preseason we will get closer to afl standard fitness. clark has been a massive loss, as has jurrah. i have huge hopes for watts next year, and we will have a huge injection of talent with the upcoming draft. while i understand we've been rebuilding for a long time, and supporters have been waiting even longer, neeld is 10 months into his contract and needs to be given the opportunity to put his stamp on this list before he cops the blame.

Don't get me wrong Bez, I really Neeld, love his attitude, and love what he SAYS he's trying to do, but we've gone so far backwards in the last 10 months that maybe he's not doing something right, and that should be taken into account rather than this attitude of "Neeld is definitely our man, no question".

And yes, the players are failing their roles, but they are roles the coach has set them.

I just worry that some are being too naive in thinking the coach has no blame in where we're at.

And just to explain, I'm not saying judge him and sack him, I'm just saying that maybe Neil Craig or someone similar has a chat to him about where he's at, what things he can change etc, heck maybe even Malthouse could help him out with that, just seems like he's going it alone and it's his way no matter what.

I have to say, I am just surprised how surprised everyone is. That was the single worst side we have put out in the past 5 years. Yes, part of that is how horrible Morton and Moloney have been, and part of it is terrible injury. But we have a REALLY BAD LIST!

did you really expect that we would become the "hardest team to play against" in a year? yes, we've gone backwards, but we needed to because we have players that have been coached by coaches that didnt teach our players any of the basic defensive aspects of the game. we had some great wins last year, but the majority of them came after massive losses and our players being challenged. neeld needs 2-3 years, and to be able to make the changes he thinks appropriate at the end of the year before we judge him. personally, i think that we will surprise a few ppl next year. with another preseason we will get closer to afl standard fitness. clark has been a massive loss, as has jurrah. i have huge hopes for watts next year, and we will have a huge injection of talent with the upcoming draft. while i understand we've been rebuilding for a long time, and supporters have been waiting even longer, neeld is 10 months into his contract and needs to be given the opportunity to put his stamp on this list before he cops the blame.

Not saying he's solely to blame.

Not saying we should be playing finals this year.

What I AM saying, is he needs to cop some heat for where we are at, just like the players should. This mamby pamby "we'll be better next year" attitude that surrounds MFC is part of the problem and I won't cop it anymore.

WHY did we need to go backwards? That's a falsehood that some seem to cling to. Did the Bombers go backwards under Hird? Crows under Sanderson? It's just another excuse.

We SHOULD be better than what we currently are, that is the simple reality.

Don't get me wrong Bez, I really Neeld, love his attitude, and love what he SAYS he's trying to do, but we've gone so far backwards in the last 10 months that maybe he's not doing something right, and that should be taken into account rather than this attitude of "Neeld is definitely our man, no question".

And yes, the players are failing their roles, but they are roles the coach has set them.

I just worry that some are being too naive in thinking the coach has no blame in where we're at.

And just to explain, I'm not saying judge him and sack him, I'm just saying that maybe Neil Craig or someone similar has a chat to him about where he's at, what things he can change etc, heck maybe even Malthouse could help him out with that, just seems like he's going it alone and it's his way no matter what.

i think you're being a little bit naive in thinking that neeld wouldnt be getting advice from craig and malthouse. craig in numerous interviews has stated that he speaks to neeld often and offers his advice. malthouse has backed neeld to the hilt, is now a mentor to davey and watts, and im sure would be talking to neeld. while he may come across as stubborn, i dont think that is the case. he has a great supporting cast who would be offering opinions, and has fantastic support to turn to in malthouse and craig. it is just way too early to be judging him in my opinion, especially with the list he was left with.

I have to say, I am just surprised how surprised everyone is. That was the single worst side we have put out in the past 5 years. Yes, part of that is how horrible Morton and Moloney have been, and part of it is terrible injury. But we have a REALLY BAD LIST!

I wasn't surprised at all, show me where I expressed that...

Mine is just a growing frustration.