I am so frustrated watching this 'Diet coke' watered down version of our side. The combination of injuries and blokes just inexplicably playing below their best with great consistently is really getting to me.

Its always depressing to see us play poorly and lose comfortably - but what can you reasonably expect with our ridiculous injury list. I cannot come to terms with how it can be possible for a professional organisation to be so utterly devestated like this - I mean all the money and the equipment and the expertise and blah blah blah yet we cannot even field a half-strength side. That is no exaggeration either when you consider:

Jamie Bennell

Clint Bartram

Mitch Clark

Aaron Davey

Michael Evans

Max Gawn

Mark Jamar

Neville Jetta

Liam Jurrah

Tom McDonald

James Sellar

Jack Watts

plus Dunn suspended

Then you have Morton, Gysberts, Moloney, Tapscott, Magner not even getting a run because they aren't up to it. We KNOW they are/can be fine players why the hell can't they show it. So that's 16 blokes who could be out there contributing/competing for spots but they aren't there. SIXTEEN FCS! That means we are playing blokes who are effectively our 38th option, which almost the bottom of the list! so we play the likes of Couch, Bate, Strauss and Nicholson who give us bugger all and of course we get flogged.

Is it too much to ask to field a side that is healthy and without so many playing well below their proven ability? If that day ever comes we will know how good we are and how good Neeld is - but it seems we have to watch this watered down version of our club get spanked every week infinitely. Losing is one thing but enduring these quarter-strength lineups on game day is infuriating. Getting bloody sick of supporting this club, when will we ever get to ENJOY some kind of success? Argh!

Take a bex and have a lie down Currie ..... frustration is everywhere.

Clint Bartram

Mitch Clark

Aaron Davey

Liam Jurrah

Jack Watts

Morton

Max Gawn

Magner

Tapscott

Moloney

Gysberts

Thats a hell of a lot of positions in the best 22 imo! There are some in my list who are fringe but this makes me think........Do we have depth after all? With, fingers crossed, a fit list next year, do I sense enormous depth coming into play which could benefit us next year?

Edited July 14, 201213 yr by DEELIRIOUS

I bet you all missed Morton today. His dash could have helped today.

That list of players tells me that another manic pre season, combined with canny trading and a bumper draft, will see us go very close to playing finals next year.

No point being upset about losing games this year. I couldn't give 2 shits whether we finish 10th or 18th. Its about putting the building blocks in place.

The slab's down and the walls are coming up. Come late next year we'll be at lock up stage, ready for the fit out.

Then its on.

Edited July 14, 201213 yr by Chook in Perth

So you're upset at injuries?

Boo- broken bones

Hisss- rolled ankles!

Something must be done about these mortal players and their fallible bodies...

I am being facetious, in case you were wondering..

Injuries happen. Get over it.

I bet you all missed Morton today. His dash could have helped today.

Couldn't agree more.

Clint Bartram

Mitch Clark

Aaron Davey

Liam Jurrah

Jack Watts

Morton

Max Gawn

Magner

Tapscott

Moloney

Gysberts

Thats a hell of a lot of positions in the best 22 imo! There are some in my list who are fringe but this makes me think........Do we have depth after all? With, fingers crossed, a fit list next year, do I sense enormous depth coming into play which could benefit us next year?

I thought the same thing last year. And the year before. Players will always be struck down with injuries, it's part of the game.

I am so frustrated watching this 'Diet coke' watered down version of our side. The combination of injuries and blokes just inexplicably playing below their best with great consistently is really getting to me.

Its always depressing to see us play poorly and lose comfortably - but what can you reasonably expect with our ridiculous injury list. I cannot come to terms with how it can be possible for a professional organisation to be so utterly devestated like this - I mean all the money and the equipment and the expertise and blah blah blah yet we cannot even field a half-strength side. That is no exaggeration either when you consider:

Jamie Bennell

Clint Bartram

Mitch Clark

Aaron Davey

Michael Evans

Max Gawn

Mark Jamar

Neville Jetta

Liam Jurrah

Tom McDonald

James Sellar

Jack Watts

plus Dunn suspended

Then you have Morton, Gysberts, Moloney, Tapscott, Magner not even getting a run because they aren't up to it. We KNOW they are/can be fine players why the hell can't they show it. So that's 16 blokes who could be out there contributing/competing for spots but they aren't there. SIXTEEN FCS! That means we are playing blokes who are effectively our 38th option, which almost the bottom of the list! so we play the likes of Couch, Bate, Strauss and Nicholson who give us bugger all and of course we get flogged.

Is it too much to ask to field a side that is healthy and without so many playing well below their proven ability? If that day ever comes we will know how good we are and how good Neeld is - but it seems we have to watch this watered down version of our club get spanked every week infinitely. Losing is one thing but enduring these quarter-strength lineups on game day is infuriating. Getting bloody sick of supporting this club, when will we ever get to ENJOY some kind of success? Argh!

Think you'll find that both Evans and Jetta played for Casey today and Tom McDonald played for Melbourne. You also mentioned Tapscott not being up to getting a game when he was a late withdrawl through injury.

All teams have injuries no matter how much money they have or the facilities at their disposal. Look at Essendon, I remember there was a game last year when Freo had 28 players to pick from.

You're following the wrong game if you don't expect injuries to occur.

None of the above being fit will make any meaningful difference. We could have had all those blokes fit yesterday and still lost. The margin would have been less, but that is it.

We have 0 midfield. We have the worst midfield in the AFL. Bailey and prendegast failed to build one. I hoped and hoped. I saw many signs but none related to success. Yes, injuries to our kids have been unfortunate. We still do not have a midfield.

As B-H says, we have no stars.

No midfield. No stars.

Until this changes we will go nowhere. The list that C&B generated shows how many players we have that should be in our players ranked 7-18. None of them are 1-6. For us they are - for any other team they wouldn't be. Our drafting and/or development have been diabolically poor for a decade. It will take another 3-5 years to make up for that. If they get it right. Once we have a midfield we could turn things quickly...but it all hinges on a midfield. For a midfield to work well, it needs depth and talent and experience. We have too little talent and too little depth. If we draft talent, it will take them 3-5 years to have pre-seasons and enough experience to perform well consistently.

Christ, but it is depressing.

We have too little talent and too little depth. If we draft talent, it will take them 3-5 years to have pre-seasons and enough experience to perform well consistently.

Christ, but it is depressing.

It is depressing, but it's not terminal. Some of our talent is being asked to do too much too early, but it will also give them a steely resolve when things turn, and they will.

Not withstanding my signature, I have the utmost respect for Leigh Matthews and his experiences in footy. After 40 years in the game Matthews looks for two things in a player - talent and leadership. He believes if you can build a group of players with those two traits you will develop a club capable of winning premierships. I believe Trengove and Grimes both have these traits. It's been a difficult year for both, but they're fantastic young leaders of men who will only grow with experience. I also believe they have plenty of talent and will develop into fine players. The worst thing the club could do would be to hinder this development by removing them as captains. And they won't. If you hear Neeld and Craig at any club function one of the things they want to discuss in glowing terms is the leadership group they've assembled.

With Frawley, Tom McDonald, Grimes, Clark, Watts, Jones, Trengove, Howe, Garland, Gysberts and a couple of others we have a stable young core of 25 and unders to build around. It's why this draft/trade period is so vital for the club. Toumpas has talent and is captain of SA, Viney has talent and leadership in spades, both he and Toumpas finished in the top 3 in the voting of the Ben Mitchell medal, a medal that Jack Grimes previously won. Talent and leadership. We need what Viney and Toumpas can bring to this club and I hope the recruiters keep Matthews' two key ingredients at the forefront of their mind when making these important decisions.

I still don't want to pay overs for Viney, but he'll bring a lot more to the club than just his playing ability. I steadfastly believe that if we're able to land him and Toumpas it won't be too many years before we'll have the best leadership group in the land. And they'll have the requisite talent. Which is why I won't be up in arms every week after a loss. I've consigned this year to development and opportunities. By year's end we'll have more talent, leadership, another preseason under Misson, bigger bodies, maybe a Boak, or Caddy, and another year to get Neeld's way of playing footy ingrained. We won't play finals in 2013, but I expect to start seeing some tangible inroads to our future.

In the meantime I'll comfortably digest threads like this and the wrist slitting of the Tonatopias of this world.

None of the above being fit will make any meaningful difference. We could have had all those blokes fit yesterday and still lost. The margin would have been less, but that is it.

We have 0 midfield. We have the worst midfield in the AFL. Bailey and prendegast failed to build one. I hoped and hoped. I saw many signs but none related to success. Yes, injuries to our kids have been unfortunate. We still do not have a midfield.

As B-H says, we have no stars.

No midfield. No stars.

The list that C&B generated shows how many players we have that should be in our players ranked 7-18. None of them are 1-6. For us they are - for any other team they wouldn't be. Our drafting and/or development have been diabolically poor for a decade. It will take another 3-5 years to make up for that. If they get it right. Once we have a midfield we could turn things quickly...but it all hinges on a midfield. For a midfield to work well, it needs depth and talent and experience. We have too little talent and too little depth. If we draft talent, it will take them 3-5 years to have pre-seasons and enough experience to perform well consistently.

Christ, but it is depressing.

To say Clark, Jurrah and maybe Watts aren't possibly in our top 6 I would say is interesting. I would agree though that it is about the mids and interestingly none of the injured mentioned are core mids.

It seems weird to say since we have messed up previous drafting but I think if we handle this draft/trade period right which I expect us to do regardless of where we take Viney the wheel will turn very quickly.

I agree it is not terminal. I'm relatively confident that we'd have among the best number 7-18 players on a list of any team...but the worst top 6. Change that and I'd hope that everything changes and changes fast.

I agree that there is plenty to be hopeful about. Young Tom Macdonald shows more than a lot of key defenders with little experience under his belt. Howe is hopefully going to be a good mid with the hope that he might be very good. Grimes is finally playing consecutive games and sylvia is showing more as a mid than at any other time in his career. If Blease builds a tank and learns to run both ways he is going to be geat fun. Hungry little bugger, too . Some players have gone backwards but that is more to do with injury or talent limits being reached than anything else I think.

We need a bit more speed. We need a crumber too.

I'd give a bit to have this bottom-out thing finished.

To say Clark, Jurrah and maybe Watts aren't possibly in our top 6 I would say is interesting. I would agree though that it is about the mids and interestingly none of the injured mentioned are core mids.

It seems weird to say since we have messed up previous drafting but I think if we handle this draft/trade period right which I expect us to do regardless of where we take Viney the wheel will turn very quickly.

Sorry BFRE, Clark is. I'd argue that neither Jurrah nor Watts would be in our top 6 on performance to date. On talent, yes. We've needed them to be, and jurrah's had some pretty good days, but I don't think either would be in our best six performers in, say, the last two years. I also don't think that either will be in the future (my pessimism is drowning me today). How many teams would have a defender that creates well but is pretty iffy in contests and a frequently injured foward with a limited tank in their top 6 players?

Hell, maybe they both will be and our talent will 'bat deep'!

Sorry BFRE, Clark is. I'd argue that neither Jurrah nor Watts would be in our top 6 on performance to date. On talent, yes. We've needed them to be, and jurrah's had some pretty good days, but I don't think either would be in our best six performers in, say, the last two years. I also don't think that either will be in the future (my pessimism is drowning me today). How many teams would have a defender that creates well but is pretty iffy in contests and a frequently injured foward with a limited tank in their top 6 players?

Hell, maybe they both will be and our talent will 'bat deep'!

If Jurrah had played this season we would likely not be in the position we are in. Agreed he has defensive deficiencies but on a bad day he would snag a couple on a good day he would win a game. When paired with Clark for the first half of the year and not being forced to be the main target who knows what could have happened.

I think Watts development this year (including his ability in the contest) is being underrated by alot and his progression in his role as a distributor from half back who can play on all sorts should not be ignored. Goddard, Enright, Harry O , have made careers from it and would all be close to first picked in their sides for the importance they hold to the teams structure.

However I think we both get back the same point this is not the issue the issue is our injuries have not been to our mids and that is where our most glaring issue has still lied.

Edited July 15, 201213 yr by big_red_fire_engine

BFRE, I long for the day where we can debate the various merits of Watts and Jurrah being in or out of our top 6 as our most important issue.

I can't believe people are still bagging Watts - he has shown me more than enough on a good dozen occasions to convince me he is going to be very good at least. Jones and Clark are all quality, massive potential for Grimes, Howe and Blease. Rivers, Garland and Frawley are a pretty good 'set' of players. The russian is the russian. Beyond that group of 11 we are in trouble.

Chook - I really do admire your optimism, I honestly don't know where you get it from. In 2010 we won 8.5 games and were actually close to finals - I was very confident then..

C&B, I'm not bagging him. I think he'll be a very good player - but only a very good player. He's had some quite good games this year too. He won't be a star IMO- and i would love it to be utterly wrong. I doubt he'll ever play KPF or KPD.

C&B, I'm not bagging him. I think he'll be a very good player - but only a very good player. He's had some quite good games this year too. He won't be a star IMO- and i would love it to be utterly wrong. I doubt he'll ever play KPF or KPD.

Hird was a star, and he wasn't KPF or KPD..

Edited July 15, 201213 yr by SloonieMcFloonieloone