I say development and impatience.

Neeld will rectify this, but it will take time.

Let's get real! We said this about Bailey! We've showed patience and belief - but the players haven't delivered, nor has the coaching.

I'd be happy to see this change but don't see this happening this season, nor the next we're just not up with the game!

The club doesn't live up to it's image - just ain't HOT

Let's get real! We said this about Bailey! We've showed patience and belief - but the players haven't delivered, nor has the coaching.

I'd be happy to see this change but don't see this happening this season, nor the next we're just not up with the game!

The club doesn't live up to it's image - just ain't HOT

You still don't understand the patience required then.

Development by a country mile - if you are arguing "recruiting" you are living in a different era. Development takes $$$$$$$ & time, there is always a "lag period."

However, it has been fully recognised by AFL. However, until our supporters do - we are going no where.

You still don't understand the patience required then.

I understand where you are coming from AW but this is not a perfect world & supporters have been sold patience and hope for too long.

I fully back our coach and new FD. My biggest concern is that it was not addressed in 2009. We are now right up against it. Our list needed elite training starting from 2010 onwards.

How many seasons of patience do we have in reserve?

Combination of both for me. First round picks we have dismally floundered. And development hasnt helped this either.

I guess if you draft the right players to start with that will lead by example then maybe the players will develop better and faster.

A vicious cycle, but getting the right players to a club can lift everyone around them.

Is Aresene Wenger & Dr. Who one entity?

Just a thought.

Development by a country mile - if you are arguing "recruiting" you are living in a different era. Development takes $$$$$$$ & time, there is always a "lag period."

However, it has been fully recognised by AFL. However, until our supporters do - we are going no where.

You have to have the players that are capable of being developed in to top class footballers, we don't.

Do you really think that Morton would be a star at any other club? What about Dunn, Bate, McLean, Bennell hell we might haver seen a Coleman medalist in Juice if he went to Collingwood, not likely.

You first have to unearth players with talent then you can develop them in to better players but if they can't play, they can't play. How many picks below 30 have we recruited that are simply no good.

I think development and we need to allow more time for it, but also the recruitment of "runners" under Bailey, as "that was the way the game is going".

But being able to run is no good if you can't win your own footy.

We don't have enough players that do that.

I think development and we need to allow more time for it, but also the recruitment of "runners" under Bailey, as "that was the way the game is going". But being able to run is no good if you can't win your own footy. We don't have enough players that do that.

Jack Dyer summed it up once when he said of a player, "he doesn't seem to be able to get where the ball's at".

Jack Dyer summed it up once when he said of a player, "he doesn't seem to be able to get where the ball's at".

It's not just that. You gotta get to where it is, then win the bloody thing when it is contested.

It is Development, Recruiting, Culture, Leadership, Coaching, Administration and a whole lot more that goes into making a player. If it was just development alone then you wouldn't be concerned with first round picks at all and be happy with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rounders knowing that development was all that counted and you had the best development so all of your players would become top liners. Development is not alchemy you are not going to turn Tommy Mc into Buddy Franklin no matter how good your development but you can help him become a damn good player.

I think the jury is still out on our recruiting but at the moment it is not looking so good. I would think our development has definitely been sub par with no improvement being shown in our players over the last 2 years. I think this is also the reason Neeld said he was not surprised by the performance against Brisbane. This to me was the most telling thing to come from the club and with all the drama's of the last month it has almost gone un noticed. It made me bloody angry, not that he said it but that he was right and that the club has let it happen. So I can understand the development argument and feel that we have failed some of the kids who have been drafted to our club, some will turn it around and others will fall by the wayside.

We now have a good chance to see how our new coaching group go about the development of players over the next couple of years. I'm interested in a couple of test cases from the last draft, Jai Sheahan picked up as a rookie with a bit of inside knowledge from his TAC cup coach was a KPF who played a bit in the ruck. Tall, could take a grab and a good kick both sides. Watching his first couple of training sessions looked like a kid (he is) and a bit lost but they have moved him to defence at Casey where he has been very impressive, he seems to have matured in his short time at the club and may be a player in the next couple of years, let's watch his development. Tynan and Taggert are the others to watch, Tynan has surprised me with how far he has come already, I thought he would be a good couple of years away when I first spotted him at training. Unfortunately Taggert is injured, I was really looking forward to watching him as he came with a ready made body for AFL unlike a lot of the skinny kids we have picked up in recent years. A good size, strong overhead, and big kick.

With a few good picks in this years draft, I would look to trade for more picks and trust that we have the development in place now to grow our own.

I understand where you are coming from AW but this is not a perfect world & supporters have been sold patience and hope for too long.

I fully back our coach and new FD. My biggest concern is that it was not addressed in 2009. We are now right up against it. Our list needed elite training starting from 2010 onwards.

How many seasons of patience do we have in reserve?

As many as it takes.

I posted ths in another thread but it is worth a run here:

The lack of midfield support is a worry. I wonder what impact this will have on Trengove's development? There has been a lot of comparison between Trengove and Bartel and I thought it was worth mentioning here what Bartel's numbers looked like after his first two seasons.

2002 11 games 140 disposals 3 goals

2003 13 games 157 disposals 5 goals

Bartel played in a total of 9 wins over those 2 years.

JT

2010 18 games 343 disposals 8 goals

2011 19 games 387 disposals 13 goals

Trengove has played in 14 wins over those 2 years.

I'd say Trengove is well on the way to becoming A grade but Bartel was able to develop into the super player he is alongside a number of other quality midfielders. I don't see an Ablett, Chapman, Corey, Kelly etc amongst our current lot. It does say that Jack has had a bloody good start to his career, though!

My point being that Bartel didn't really become a reasonable AFL player until his third year and not elite until a fair bit later than that. He won his Brownlow in his 6th season. A number of other players around about Bartel's age and experience came through with him. Will Trengove continue to develop without that level of support - or is it already there? Have we recruited enough midfielders to be able to develop them the way they need to be?

As many as it takes.

That's the crux of it.

We have to be committed to doing it the right way, however long it takes, rather than compromising the rebuild of this club due to unreasonable impatience and misunderstanding of what is required.

That's the crux of it.

We have to be committed to doing it the right way, however long it takes, rather than compromising the rebuild of this club due to unreasonable impatience and misunderstanding of what is required.

Yes, but we also need $$$$ to fund the ongoing rise. I hope the money still rolls in...the club must come 100% clean now. It needs its supporter base more than ever. I want facts not hope. I already hold hope every year.

Yes, but we also need $$$$ to fund the ongoing rise. I hope the money still rolls in...the club must come 100% clean now. It needs its supporter base more than ever. I want facts not hope. I already hold hope every year.

Where does this "the club must come clean" come from? What facts do you want?

What makes you feel so self-important that you think the club should be worrying about making sure you're "fully informed"? And of what exactly, I have no idea.

I'm sorry, but I can't follow the logic of how this train of thought is related to the content of this thread.

Where does this "the club must come clean" come from? What facts do you want?

What makes you feel so self-important that you think the club should be worrying about making sure you're "fully informed"? And of what exactly, I have no idea.

I'm sorry, but I can't follow the logic of how this train of thought is related to the content of this thread.

If you knew how many $$$ i have sent into the club since 2008 then you may understand....i say it because i sense a lot of die hard Demon faithful are finally becoming disillusioned with the clubs continuous position.

I as a member, as you are (i guess) have been asked many times over the past 4 years to contribute...Happy to do so, But we should always expect value, and yes the club should "worry" about all it's members...not to a ridiculous point of course. But we are all important.

I think many members right now, on here & on radio i have heard are really hurting beyond what ever they have felt before...& are sick of spending $$$ for the returns we are fed.

All i am saying is the club must respect its members more than ever, if they expect all to jump on board yet again...because to fund our football department for the future will not be cheap..

As all things it is a little bit of both. As a broke club we had to compromise on both when it came to spending money on the best coaching and recruiting. We also seem to be chasing yesterdays trend.

But all is not lost, on a statistical basis Watts and Hurley are very similar. For a statistical comparison of players we have versus a MFC in hindsight list try the website below you will be pleasantly surprised when you do the comparisons.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-melbourne-demons--jack-watts

If Gysbert, Strauss, Tapscott and Cook all got some injury free football behind them I am sure our new extended coaching panel can get them up to speed quickly.

I heard Mark Robinson today on SEN saying that he had a conversation with Schwab at a function a few years ago where Schwab wrote down a hypothetical Melbourne team in a few years time (probably about now) and Robinson made the comment that the team lacked grunt but Schwab was adamant that we would need more running players because that's where the game was headed.

No matte the latest or next tactical fad (run and carry, tempo, rolling zone or press) teams always need a good balance of inside, outside tall and small players. I understand that in the past we did lack runners, especially with the likes of McLean and McDonald in the team but it looks as though we went too far the other way in trying to restore the balance.

I heard Mark Robinson today on SEN saying that he had a conversation with Schwab at a function a few years ago where Schwab wrote down a hypothetical Melbourne team in a few years time (probably about now) and Robinson made the comment that the team lacked grunt but Schwab was adamant that we would need more running players because that's where the game was headed.

No matte the latest or next tactical fad (run and carry, tempo, rolling zone or press) teams always need a good balance of inside, outside tall and small players. I understand that in the past we did lack runners, especially with the likes of McLean and McDonald in the team but it looks as though we went too far the other way in trying to restore the balance.

I heard that too, but where are our runners?

Still unproven yet, one hot day doesn't make a Summer.

After today, do you still think Hawkins is unproven??

I heard Mark Robinson today on SEN saying that he had a conversation with Schwab at a function a few years ago where Schwab wrote down a hypothetical Melbourne team in a few years time (probably about now) and Robinson made the comment that the team lacked grunt but Schwab was adamant that we would need more running players because that's where the game was headed.

No matte the latest or next tactical fad (run and carry, tempo, rolling zone or press) teams always need a good balance of inside, outside tall and small players. I understand that in the past we did lack runners, especially with the likes of McLean and McDonald in the team but it looks as though we went too far the other way in trying to restore the balance.

Thats the problem Clint, Schwab has had to much to say and too much of an influence on certain football matters with recruiting, teams, players etc. I got this impression when I first spoke with him. It is obviously still going on to a certain extent and I expect Schwabs head to roll if the trend continues. The players and coaches have known it for over 12 months, just think back to the 186 weekend. A lot of truth to come out of that.

I heard that too, but where are our runners?

exactly, we still need runners in the upcoming draft......who will they be?

Blease, Bennell, Bail?

We need top 10-15 mids in the next 2 drafts, pure inside outside A graders

Thats the problem Clint, Schwab has had to much to say and too much of an influence on certain football matters with recruiting, teams, players etc. I got this impression when I first spoke with him. It is obviously still going on to a certain extent and I expect Schwabs head to roll if the trend continues. The players and coaches have known it for over 12 months, just think back to the 186 weekend. A lot of truth to come out of that.

i doubt heavily Schwab has ever had a hand in any draft selection processess,

He would just be spruiking our then current direction

I heard that too, but where are our runners?

The likes of Bennell, Strauss, Blease, Bail, Trengove and Scully. Then there is Maric, and Morton from the previous draft.

Tapscott adds grunt, isn't an inside player as such, while Gysberts isn't big but plays the in-and-under role.

The point is, Magner is the first player in a number of years that we have drafter who is a true grunt, in-and-under player and to think we delisted Valenti who did that role very well with limited opportunities (and has won consecutive Liston Medal's since).

The point about Schwab having too much of a say in the drafting is valid, but isn't relevant to this thread.