The Mini Draft

[old55 23,362]

Nothing wrong, but people here were implying our bid was somehow better than the Crows, but GWS took the Crows bid. If that is the case, it's not an 'auction' (to the highest bidder'), but a 'preferred sale'.

And that's clearly not the case - as I posted in the other thread:

O'Meara + 31 for ND4 + Compo pick

It's debatable whether ND12 + 2 Compo picks beats ND4 + Compo pick

They only clear way we trump GC is to give 12 + 2 Compo picks clean

It's a steep price, Bob said he'd do it, but he's the only one so far.

Crouch + Luke Brown (rated top 30) for 10 + Compo Pick

The only clear way we beat this is 12 + Compo pick clean

Looks like we just don't rate Crouch that highly.

Please don't bother to suggest smaller sweeteners than 31 or Brown - later than that we're into chump change picks we might not even use. And please don't insult everyone's intelligence by suggesting we bundle Bate, Warnock or Maric into the deal to get it over the line - GWS made it clear they weren't interested in even good players.

[Gooner 9]

I would've liked to get Crouch, but two first round picks is too much in my opinion.

Over the last few years, there have been a lot of 17 year olds who have been very highly rated the year before the draft but then slipped down the pecking order and there have been late bolters who weren't considered top draft picks when they were 17. It may be that Crouch and O'Meera may turn out to be mid first round picks or top five picks. It's too early to say which they'll be and whether Adelaide and GC have got a good deal or not. I think they've both had to pay more than they wanted to because of the demand for the 17 year olds and we may be better off missing out on them, particularly if we don't have a great year next year and decide to activate the $cully picks.

Looking through the last few years drafts, here are my recollections of 17 year old prospects

2008 - Rich (7), Shuey (18) and Natanui (2) were the clear favourites when they were 17, Watts (1) and Hill (3) weren't talked about much when they were 17.

2009 - Scully (1) was the clear favourite when 17, but Trengove (2) and Martin (3) weren't spoken about much at all. In addition Butcher (8) was considered to go at 2.

2010 - Swallow was the clear best pick when 17 and like Scully the same thing happened when he was 18, the rest were mixed up a little more, and I didn't pay as much attention as I Melbourne didn't have the top picks. It should also be mentioned that Toy was expected to go in the top three of the 2009 draft had he not been taken by GC but has shown potential and little more in his short career so far.

I'm sure there are plenty out there with better knowledge of the drafts who can point out the risks in picking a player at 17 rather than 18.

If Melbourne finish 8th next year, we could have picks 11,12 and 13 in a strong draft. There have been some great players picked up with those picks. If we finish even lower then we'll have the potential to pick up even better players.

[warren dean 193]

And there we have it - For all the doom and gloomers - it is not like we had to use the picks or lose them. Next years draft uncompromised and apparently a super draft and we have picks in hand so we have bid i the mini draft to what we consider our maximum and walked away. Next

Next years draft is already compromised - the two best kids aren't in it, plus clubs will activate comp picks so the draft order could change significantly. Let's say GWS finish last and also decide to activate comp picks, they could end up with 3 or 4 inside top 10picks (depending on where original owners of those picks finish), pushing all the other down the order.

[old55 23,362]

Next years draft is already compromised - the two best kids aren't in it, plus clubs will activate comp picks so the draft order could change significantly. Let's say GWS finish last and also decide to activate comp picks, they could end up with 3 or 4 inside top 10picks (depending on where original owners of those picks finish), pushing all the other down the order.

True but the Compo pick GWS got off GC is the "mid 1st round" one after the non-finalists, the one they got off Adelaide is after Adelaide's pick. The other clubs with picks that could get in before us are the Dogs (after their pick) and Geelong (after their pick) - we're unlikely to finish higher than Geelong.

There's 7 1st round picks in the mix: GWS (Cats post-non-finalists, Adelaide after pick), Dogs after pick, Cats after pick, MFC after pick and post-non-finalists. The rest of the picks are after the 1st round.

The other factor is if start of 1st round PPs are still in with Port, GC and Brisbane all in line if they win less than 5 - someone has to play GWS twice, I would be surprised if GC and Brisbane don't win 5+, unconvinced about Port.

So absolute worst case is 3 PPs and GWS Adelaide pick, Dogs pick and cats pick getting in before us to compromise the order - likely case 2 or 3 spots down grade.

I guess the final factor is other uncontracted players going to GWS, if for example Goddard went then there'd be 2 extra 1st round picks in the mix.

Edited October 12, 2011 by old55

[nutbean 8,838]

Here's hoping there is an out and out star available at every pick in the first round in 2012 Draft so we don't miss out. Then again, we don't want other clubs to get them - let's just hope our club gets lucky.

I still dont believe our biggest issue is who we draft - it is our development of who we draft - the players we have drafted over the years hit a ceiling and dont seem to progress to that next level. Perfect examples are Bate and Dunn - MFC were applauded when we picked these two as they were both bottom aged footballer who we "sure" to go well into the top 10 in the following years draft had we not picked them up. I will take a small shot at Col Sylvia - although not quite as mercurial, he could sit alongside Stevey J with his ability to bust open games - he just doesnt do it as often as SJ.

The only draft pick, picked up early who has delivered on his early selection in my opinion is Frawley ( Big disclaimer - this post doesnt include anyone from Mortons draft back - under 23 players are not developed or mature so the Jury is still out)

Now talk is cheap but I am hoping with the plethora of coaches ( with Neeld's no nonsense approach) that they eek ever inch of talent our players have and are able to develop and reach their maximum potential

[Yokozuna 1,004]

We can also use our PP in the next 4 years or offer them in trades in the next few years, which could help us land someone big next year or move up in the draft through trades. We do not have to trade them or use them straight away, we can be patient, which is not always a given for people on this site!

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Running out of time with these picks? no announcement on the second pick to my knowledge. 3 hours can the door still be ajar for GWS to fall back on our offer?

[The Chazz 4,077]

Interesting to see Emma Quayle's tweet about the Adelaide/Crouch paperwork not being lodged yet. As we stand, they have 19 minutes to get it in.

Surely they wont miss the boat?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

GWS would have to trade a second one this year, teams will be all about the "super draft" next year imo wont get the same value

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Confirmed Adelaide have it, Brad Crouch will be it - Adelaide trade guy on draft radio

[Jordie_tackles 354]

pick 10 and compo for MD 2 and Luke Brown from SANFL

[The Chazz 4,077]

GWS would have to trade a second one this year, teams will be all about the "super draft" next year imo wont get the same value

Poor them (subtitle: suck sh!t).

[buddha82 12]

Traded Pick 10 and their compo pick for Phil Davis for Pick 2 in the mini draft (Crouch) and Luke Brown from SA.

[old dee 23,774]

My optimism level starts to rise about now and continues through the draft and pre season until the NAB cup when we play our first game. Usually about then I come crashing to the ground, so at the moment I'm quite boyant, I've forgotten the last year already, one of the benefits of ageing, and I'm ready to fire up again. Got most of my membership renewals today so they will go off tomorrow and the cycle starts again.

At least we have a new coach and some new people at the club so that's a start it's not the same old same old, apart from the players, so we might actually have a plan and we might actually intend to win some games next year. So buck old dee and get on board for another year and see what it brings, we may be pleasantly surprised.

I have never got off RobbieF but I like you have been done this track on too many occasions.

After the debacle that was the 2011 season I am taking a much more cautious approach.

Just taking things a little quieter.

After round 12 when we are 6 and 6 and have avoided 31 goal losses I will get excited.

Go Dees

[Gooner 9]

"Crows get mini-draft pick, but who to choose?

The Age's Emma Quayle reports that Adelaide will give GWS its No.10 pick in this year's NAB AFL Draft, plus the compensation pick it received for losing Phil Davis, in exchange for pick two in Monday's 17 year-old mini-draft.

Quayle says that will net the Crows highly rated Victorian Brad Crouch.

But Michelangelo Rucci of The Advertiser reports that they may instead select local small forward Ben Kennedy to avoid the same 'go home factor' that saw Jack Gunston demand a trade to Hawthorn.

As part of the deal, Norwood teenager Luke Brown could be pre-listed by the Giants and sent to Adelaide, according to The Age. "

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/125021/default.aspx

[Redleg 40,815]

"Crows get mini-draft pick, but who to choose?

The Age's Emma Quayle reports that Adelaide will give GWS its No.10 pick in this year's NAB AFL Draft, plus the compensation pick it received for losing Phil Davis, in exchange for pick two in Monday's 17 year-old mini-draft.

Quayle says that will net the Crows highly rated Victorian Brad Crouch.

But Michelangelo Rucci of The Advertiser reports that they may instead select local small forward Ben Kennedy to avoid the same 'go home factor' that saw Jack Gunston demand a trade to Hawthorn.

As part of the deal, Norwood teenager Luke Brown could be pre-listed by the Giants and sent to Adelaide, according to The Age. "

http://www.afl.com.a...21/default.aspx

How is our offer of pick 12 and compo pick next year, that would be mid first round, not a mile ahead of the Crows offer? Crows got a player as well. We ( 12 ) are two spots , really one, as GWS have next pick behind Crows ( 10 ) in ND this year, but half a round 8-9 spots ahead of Crows end of first round pick in next years superdraft. I smell a rat.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Eh. Rat or no rat- retaining our compo and pick 12 is still a positive thing. I seem to recall Garry saying at the end of a FC words to the affect of "we will make them pay for this" (paraphrasing) and knowing the douchbag Sheeds he probably saw that and made a delusional pledge to not deal with us.

The double hitter- take our potential star AND deny us the chance to snare a potential up and coming gun. Brilliantly played Sheedy, you [censored]!

In two years time, if we play our cards right we will still be cashed up and they won't. They have put a lot of eggs in a couple of baskets and assume that kids will love playing there, well I reckon they won't.

I hope we make a massive play for their "coming out of contract recruits" and take a few back. I don't hate GW$ I loathe Sheedy and $cully and want them to fail putting egg on the face of Dimwitriou.

[old55 23,362]

How is our offer of pick 12 and compo pick next year, that would be mid first round, not a mile ahead of the Crows offer? Crows got a player as well. We ( 12 ) are two spots , really one, as GWS have next pick behind Crows ( 10 ) in ND this year, but half a round 8-9 spots ahead of Crows end of first round pick in next years superdraft. I smell a rat.

It would be but that's not what we offered - we wanted a pick inside 25 back - the latest GWS has is 14 - see The Age article discussing it linked in this thread..

Pick 12 + Compo for MD2 + 14 was our offer

We could have beaten the Crows with Pick 12 + Compo straight but we didn't offer that presunmably because we think that overvalues Crouch

[Axis of Bob 11,674]

If we offered that then we probably wouldn't be able to do a deal for Clark.

But we obviously thought a compo pick + a pick under 25 would be enough to do the Clark deal, which is why we baulked at the cost of the MD pick.

[old55 23,362]

The Demons offered their compensation pick for losing Scully, which can be used up until 2015, and is tied to the ladder position of Melbourne.

Melbourne also offered pick No.12 but wanted a draft selection inside the top 25 in return.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/suns-land-omeara-crows-in-box-seat-for-crouch-20111012-1lkew.html#ixzz1aiH4V24c

[simma02 53]

The Demons offered their compensation pick for losing Scully, which can be used up until 2015, and is tied to the ladder position of Melbourne.

Melbourne also offered pick No.12 but wanted a draft selection inside the top 25 in return.

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz1aiH4V24c

If true then that is disapointing. I think pick 12 + compo for an elite talent was worth it, no need to ask for the top 25 pick also.

[Scoop Junior 3,435]

If we offered that then we probably wouldn't be able to do a deal for Clark.

But we obviously thought a compo pick + a pick under 25 would be enough to do the Clark deal, which is why we baulked at the cost of the MD pick.

So do you think that we didn't do the MD deal because of the slight chance that Clark would decide to go to Melbourne rather than back home to Perth.

I find that very hard to believe.

[old55 23,362]

So do you think that we didn't do the MD deal because of the slight chance that Clark would decide to go to Melbourne rather than back home to Perth.

I find that very hard to believe.

I don't think that was the reason.

I think it was because we rate Crouch about the same as Adelaide rate him - maybe even a bit lower.

They clearly didn't rate him at 10 + Compo, and we would've needed to give 12 + Compo to beat their bid

They gave 10 + Compo and got MD2 + a player mooted to go top 30.

[old55 23,362]

So do you think that we didn't do the MD deal because of the slight chance that Clark would decide to go to Melbourne rather than back home to Perth.

I find that very hard to believe.

I see you're persisting with your criticism of the club in these trade dealings in another thread but I haven't seen anywhere where you've stated exactly what you would have done differently. I've offered examples of what it would take to better the done deals but you haven't actually endorsed any of hem as you preffered position. Time to put up.

[Demon16 69]

i'm not cursing the club, but we should have gone harder at the main prize. G.C was in the box seat because they made their offer first? big deal..... put up the the 3 first round picks and try and get a little change.

O'meara will be elite.