There was a need to go through the back door, because that is what happened. I can't understand how you fail to see that. It is fact, it's not even a debate.

And if I can again ask you to read the OP before responding. This is a thread about Freo looking bad. I'm saying that did a great job at getting what they want.

I'm semi with you with lots of "if's".

What I have no idea on is to what extent we enquired on Ross Lyon, if the MFC wanted him at all or if we have someone else in mind who we have landed or hope to land.

Having said at all that - I dismiss the gentlemanly strategy of approach his management, ask the question and then walk away. The question Freo obviously threw the rule book away.

Therefore I like Freo's balls of steel and I will take a stab at initiating the "Freo approach" to luring Malthouse to the MFC.

1/ Speak to Malthouses management about coming to MFC - if there is no interest there....

2/ Speak to Malthouse directly and tell him why it is such a wonderful idea to come to the MFC...if there is still no interest

3/ Talk to Mrs Malthouse directly and tell her that she will be on the front cover of Demons WAG's magazine if she can tempt Mick to come across...if still no interest

4/ Approach Spot Malthouse and offer him 10 bones a week to bite Mick on the leg until he agrees to come to the MFC.

In short - time to make your own rules, MFC.

I'm not saying that Melbourne should have done what Freo did, what I am saying is that I disagree with the OP, Freo did a great job. They did whatever it takes to get their man, and their actions are not making Melbourne look good.

Point 2 wasn't meant to be a shot at you, it was more along the lines of I understand that supporters want to back the club and be positive, but in this case Freo has done a great job, and it appears better than Melbourne. Could have been put better.

To your first point - I am exactly saying we should do what Freo did

To your second point - Freo did do a good job but I withhold judgement on us possibly doing a better job until I see how it plays out for us.

Freo have shown a new side to their operations but it was by accident really. If Harvey was managed by a different crew than Lyon, things would have resolved much differently. Freo would have gone to Lyon's management, just like we did and would have been receiving the same information that we did. Lyon would have used his managemnt to do all negotiations and in the end it would have been a bidding war (incidently which we would have lost).

The fact that Lyon and Harvey were managed by the same group forced Freo to go straight to Lyon, and have made Lyon look very deceitful.

That's the whole point of my argument. It was possible because Freo did it.

Hopefully you are right. But Garry Lyon saying that we inquired with ESP about Lyon would indicate that this is not the case.

See my first response in this reply. The fact is Freo were able to. Again my points are in response to the original topic.

We enquired about his status with his management company and were told he was going to sign with the Saints. His management company thought he was going to sign with St Kilda. St Kilda thought he was going to sign with St Kilda.

To turn this into a negative for the Dees is simply preposterous. The reason Freo acted most unusually in contacting a coach direct was because their target shared managers with their current coach so to go through normal channels was impossible.

Melbourne can't be said to have missed out on Lyon by being too casual or doing the honorable thing of talking to his management.

Bailey was sacked with five weeks to go and it was no secret that we were interested in an experienced coach - namely clarkson, malthouse or lyon. It is weeks since clarkson signed up for an extra term so Lyon knew he was strongly in the frame for the Ds IF he left St Kilda.

While all this is playing out he begins talks with Freo, keeping his management in the dark. Plainly, he was not interested in us or he would have tipped his management (which was out of the loop on the Freo question because it also had M Harvey on its books) to talk to G Lyon.

Just keep sweating on Scott Burns, people.

Edited September 16, 201113 yr by pitmaster

To turn this into a negative for the Dees is simply preposterous. The reason Freo acted most unusually in contacting a coach direct was because their target shared managers with their current coach so to go through normal channels was impossible.

or...Freo wouldnt take no for an answer ?

( who knows - just having fun !)

Indeed Rpfc. There is alot of grey in these situations and presumptions made by some poster reflect adversely on them only.

Gerard Whately mention on ABC radio that Lyon had instructed his management to undertake contract negotiations with St Kilda while behind their backs negotiating with Freo. ESP were in active mnegotiations with St K.

If that is a true account of the facts then I change my view on Lyon. Geez thats bad ethics. I can only think karma on him for you reap what you sow. Cant say I admire the guy for running a bad faith goose chase.

SUCH loser talk.

I'm not saying we should have approached Lyon that way, but the reality is that Freo earmarked their man, and got their man. Therefore Thomo is right that he was there for the taking, and someone else got him. If you/others confine the thinking to the conventional ways of doing business, then you dismiss the aggressive and potentially successful other ways of doing business.

Now it may be that we are more keen on being "ethical" than effective, because we believe in the end values will get us where we want to go. But that's unlikely our rationale, because we did offer Clarkson a contract whilst he was in contract, and we did ass our former captain.

But the fact remains that we sacked Bailey when there were games to go. If we had MM, why would Garry say we had enquires recently as to RL? So presumably, we don't have a coach. We could have had RL, possibly. But we enquired through management, the conventioanl route.

To your first point - I am exactly saying we should do what Freo did

To your second point - Freo did do a good job but I withhold judgement on us possibly doing a better job until I see how it plays out for us.

We are on the same page nutnean.

My first point was saying "I am not posting in this thread because I think that Melbourne Screwed up and did not do the right thing so they are no good."

SUCH loser talk.

But we enquired through management, the conventioanl route.

I love it how talking to the representatives of people is now merely an antiquated "conventional route"...

And the funny thing is when we talked about The Scully Saga © the Kliemans'/Bluchers'/Lynchs' were made out to be the third arm (or orifice) of Tom himself.

So which is it?

Are they reps and their client "one and the same" as was the case with the Saga?

Or are they different poles that we are expected to ignore?

There are no rules to this.

Freo shafts a coach with a contract

Coach with a contract shafts club

Pies head hunted a coach with a contract in Malthouse

Seeing how ruthlessly clubs dispose of coaches when they want to, how could anyone blame a coach for taking the same ruthless approach to securing their future?

There are no rules to this.

Freo shafts a coach with a contract

Coach with a contract shafts club

Pies head hunted a coach with a contract in Malthouse

Seeing how ruthlessly clubs dispose of coaches when they want to, how could anyone blame a coach for taking the same ruthless approach to securing their future?

bazinga

Its about getting jobs done

I believe Lyon wasnt offered anything is because there was nothing to offer him. "No Vacancy" B)

time will reveal all ( well most)

It is in the bag we just have to wait for October 3rd !

I believe Melbourne didn't make an offer to Ross Lyon because they thought he was happy to stay at St Kilda, while Freo went all out to get him. Who looks silly now? I'd say this makes Melbourne look like they are run by amateurs, not Freo.

I read your posts again, at your request.

That's the thing about writing on an internet forum.. it's never too hard to find and quote the people who talk shite.

Your main purpose was to come in and have a pot shot at Melbourne. The OP was your vehicle to do that. I'm done with this argument.

Therefore Thomo is right that he was there for the taking, and someone else got him. If you/others confine the thinking to the conventional ways of doing business, then you dismiss the aggressive and potentially successful other ways of doing business.

Yes, someone else got him, but he wasn't necessarily there for the taking for everybody concerned in this case. He would have been aware of the negotiations between his club and management and the not-so-attractive offer to re-sign, he would have also been aware of Melbourne's apparent interest through ESP. Simply, Fremantle was more attractive to him, good list, leaders, maturity, - things our club didn't have. As Luke Ball said, he's set on winning a premiership.

He had a choice.

There's more aspects to this than just "there for the taking", is my point. So he's not right.

Yes, someone else got him, but he wasn't necessarily there for the taking for everybody concerned in this case. He would have been aware of the negotiations between his club and management and the not-so-attractive offer to re-sign, he would have also been aware of Melbourne's apparent interest through ESP. Simply, Fremantle was more attractive to him, good list, leaders, maturity, - things our club didn't have. As Luke Ball said, he's set on winning a premiership.

He had a choice.

There's more aspects to this than just "there for the taking", is my point. So he's not right.

Yet we spoke to his management to ask him if he was interested..... and what did the Dockers do?

Still think you are way off Thomo.

You're assuming Lyon was our number 1 target and it was our intention to sign him, without even speaking to him first to sound out his strategy and interest in our list.

That's drawing a long bow.

If Adelaide snatched up Terry Wallace tomorrow, would that make us look amateurish because we didn't get a chance to give him an offer?

We could easily have preferable alternatives up our sleeve.

And that is subjective.

Still think you are way off Thomo.

You're assuming Lyon was our number 1 target and it was our intention to sign him, without even speaking to him first to sound out his strategy and interest in our list.

That's drawing a long bow.

If Adelaide snatched up Terry Wallace tomorrow, would that make us look amateurish because we didn't get a chance to give him an offer?

We could easily have preferable alternatives up our sleeve.

And that is subjective.

I'll post the OP here so people can read it

Topic: Hurrah for FREO Disfunction -is best served hot

Post: At last a club that behaves so badly it makes the MFC look professional. Well done shockers

What I have said is that I do not agree with the OP. Freo have done a great job. Melbourne were interested in talking with Ross Lyon and were not able to because they were told he was staying at St Kilda. Meanwhile, he left St Kilda and Freo signed him. That is not dysfunction at Freo, and does not help to make MFC look professional as the OP stated.

Clearly Freo have done a better job at negotiating with Ross Lyon than Melbourne have. Melbourne missed the chance, Freo did not.

How is this hard to understand?

I read your posts again, at your request.

That's the thing about writing on an internet forum.. it's never too hard to find and quote the people who talk shite.

Your main purpose was to come in and have a pot shot at Melbourne. The OP was your vehicle to do that. I'm done with this argument.

Read with the context of the OP, it was more a pat on the back for Freo, not a shot at MFC

Edited September 16, 201113 yr by Thomo

I'll post the OP here so people can read it

Topic: Hurrah for FREO Disfunction -is best served hot

Post: At last a club that behaves so badly it makes the MFC look professional. Well done shockers

What I have said is that I do not agree with the OP. Freo have done a great job. Melbourne were interested in talking with Ross Lyon and were not able to because they were told he was staying at St Kilda. Meanwhile, he left St Kilda and Freo signed him. That is not dysfunction at Freo, and does not help to make MFC look professional as the OP stated.

Clearly Freo have done a better job at negotiating with Ross Lyon than Melbourne have. Melbourne missed the chance, Freo did not.

How is this hard to understand?

It's simply not correct.

If MFC tried to talk to Ross Lyon and he wasn't interested, what is the club to do?

Kidnap him and force him to watch a presentation?

We didn't have a conflict of interest with his management, and they would have relayed the message that we wanted to talk.

He obviously wasn't interested.

It's not a case of neglect on the club's part.

It is NO reflection on the professionalism of MFC.

I don't really care what the OP says.

You wrote that MFC looks amateurish out of this...

It's simply not the case.

WE should have shown him the Powerpoint presentation we showed Judd.

I heard it was really good...

As I see it there are three possibilites:

1) We are well down the track of getting someone we want more than Ross Lyon and were therefore not overly keen on going after Lyon.

2) We were keen to speak to Ross Lyon but he indicated that he had no interest in us and we therefore didn't take it further.

3) We were keen to speak to Ross Lyon, he didn't rule himself out but we backed off when his management said he was likely to stay at St Kilda.

If it's 1 then it doesn't refelct poorly on the club.

If it's 2 or 3 then it does reflect poorly. For Lyon to have no interest in us would be yet another rejection of the MFC by an outsider. If it's 3, then we obviously didn't pursue him aggressively enough as Freo have done. Nice guys finish last.

Yet we spoke to his management to ask him if he was interested..... and what did the Dockers do?

They made the best offer. Lyon would have also been aware of the offer made to Clarko by Melbourne. And the Saints offer to him. Like I said he had a choice.

So from this:

1/He wasn't interested in St.Kilda and knew he squeezed his best out of 'em. Wasn't happy.. ?

2/He wasn't interested in Melbourne and it's inferior list - which would require much work to do. And had a fair indication of what the offer would be.

3/He saw Fremantle as his new frontier with a very good list, an attractive offer (probably most likely irresistable and greater than Melbourne's) for he and his family. And the best Premiership shot.

There was a need to go through the back door, because that is what happened. I can't understand how you fail to see that. It is fact, it's not even a debate.

You're right in that Freo got the job by going in the back door, but I expect if Melbourne had tried this the response would've been "talk to my manager". Freo only had this back door available to them because they couldn't do it through Lyon's manager - if he'd responded to Freo in that manner they'd have been forced to just walk away, why would Lyon want that?

They bypassed the "process" and got the result they wanted, so well done to them there, but I think the logic of "Freo went in the back door therefore Melbourne could have too" has holes in it - the back door was only visible to them because of extenuating circumstances.

Yet we spoke to his management to ask him if he was interested..... and what did the Dockers do?

They exercised an option that was not available to us.

Freo may look Bad or Good depends on whether you are of the opinion it was unproffesional or a means to ends person, but to me the person who has damaged their reputation the most would be Ross Lyon. Even his management sacked him as a client within the first few hours of this occuring. A statement to that affect was read on the Footy Show last night. For a man who was touted with being a man of Integrity he will have lost a lot of trust from the football community. If $7.5m is what it cost for his integrity then he may have come out ahead in the end anyway.

I like alot of you hope that our Lyon is as ferocious and single minded about getting the right Coach for our team.