I'm with you mate, this thread is being extremely harsh on Barts, had he kicked 2 outta 3 of those goals people would be raving about his game today. I was as annoyed as anyone when he missed those couple and when he gave the 50m away but had those couple of goals gone that little bit straighter this negativity wouldn't be present. Shut down kerr well.

Totally agree. It's like if you turn the ball over a couple of times a game fans will be calling for your head because it's obvious. But play soft bruise-free footy without one percenters and endeavor and you can play in MFC's defence. As Bartram's career stats show (16.12 before today – yes that doesn't include out of bounds on the full, if anyone has actual facts about that instead of conjecture and selective memory let us know), the guy is not that bad a shot at goal, he just had a shocking day today. But give me Bartram missing three great opportunities he's created himself with run (while stopping Kerr) than a Strauss, Cheney or Simon Buckley any day.

Edited August 14, 201114 yr by Rollo2

Mods: This started out as a flat out bashing, but has managed to regain some semblance of a discussion. Keep an eye out next time!

Yes, he's not the best kick. Yes, he missed three. Yes, he gave away a 50.

BUT!

Watch the replay. The umpire pointed to Jamar. Clint threw the ball to Jamar. The umpire gave a fifty. Fair? No.

How often does he even get to have three shots on goal? We have used Bartram as a shut down defender for too long, he has lost his attack and goal kicking skills. Give him more time in the midfield (where he can run all day, unlike our other so-called mids such as Jordan 'I have no tank' Gysberts) and watch him get back to his first year best.

Do we even know if someone has shown him how to kick? Pre-Season the back line spend more time on spoils and reading play than kicking. Get Toddy or Westy to spend some time with the kid.

Give's his all day in and day out. Would rather guys like Barty, Joel Mac or Warnock than Green or Jurrah at the moment.

Kicking is just one of the skills he is well short on. A major issue is his mind. He is not an instinctive thinker. Often takes extraordinary time to decide what to do. Unfortunately we are trying to build a premiership team and he just dosn't cut the level.

I was at the game today, Jones was in our best. Easily. Went in hard at the ball every time and won some very hard ball gets.

Jones isn't even as hard as many think.

This thread and supporters in general are not hard enough on Bartram's kicking and decision-making.

When he gets the footy in his hands, he manages to commit atrocities that crush the heart of football teams, especially those filled with kids that haven't been battle hardened.

Have to agree.

Congratulations to Clint for getting the absolute best out of himself ... but his decision-making as much as his kicking is a liability. Other teams just have to isolate him in defence to win a turnover in a scoring position.

We can't go forward with him in our 22 - end of story.

You'd like to think that his dedication and work ethic would be an asset to GWS .If we are to be a finals team - we must move him on as soon as we can

Edited August 16, 201114 yr by hoopla

It is not only the misses that hurt - it is the knock on effect on confidence and the momentum killers that doubly hurts. When Howe took the mark on the behind post and popped it to Barty in a much better position we all cringed as the one person we didnt want kicking on goal is Bartram.

Love his hardness but its not enough

Jones isn't even as hard as many think.

Agree.

He sure looks nuggety and puts in occassionally, but upon closer inspection he is well behind in output compared to other teammates in terms of tackle count: -

1 - Brent Moloney - 103

2 - Colin Sylvia - 97

3 - Jack Trengove - 87

4 - Jordie McKenzie - 77

5 - Jordan Gysberts - 64

6 - Brad Green - 57

7 - Nathan Jones - 57

8 - Ricky Petterd - 53

9 - Jared Rivers - 48

10 - Jack Watts/Tom Scully - 45

And the top 6 have all played less games than that of Jones.

Granted, he is 1st for most disposals on the list @ 72% DE and 3rd for CP behind Moloney & Sylvia with Trengove not far behind and having missed 3-4 games. But he is ranked 4th overall on the list for most clangers, and really not that far behind being 1st.

Agree.

He sure looks nuggety and puts in occassionally, but upon closer inspection he is well behind in output compared to other teammates in terms of tackle count: -

1 - Brent Moloney - 103

2 - Colin Sylvia - 97

3 - Jack Trengove - 87

4 - Jordie McKenzie - 77

5 - Jordan Gysberts - 64

6 - Brad Green - 57

7 - Nathan Jones - 57

8 - Ricky Petterd - 53

9 - Jared Rivers - 48

10 - Jack Watts/Tom Scully - 45

And the top 6 have all played less games than that of Jones.

Granted, he is 1st for most disposals on the list @ 72% DE and 3rd for CP behind Moloney & Sylvia with Trengove not far behind and having missed 3-4 games. But he is ranked 4th overall on the list for most clangers, and really not that far behind being 1st.

Tackle count is not the measure of hardness. It usually means you are second to the ball.

Tackle count is not the measure of hardness. It usually means you are second to the ball.

and it also doesnt take into account whether or not the tackle actually sticks or its just a slight hindrance as they waltz through.. aka the morton style

Agree.

He sure looks nuggety and puts in occassionally, but upon closer inspection he is well behind in output compared to other teammates in terms of tackle count: -

1 - Brent Moloney - 103

2 - Colin Sylvia - 97

3 - Jack Trengove - 87

4 - Jordie McKenzie - 77

5 - Jordan Gysberts - 64

6 - Brad Green - 57

7 - Nathan Jones - 57

8 - Ricky Petterd - 53

9 - Jared Rivers - 48

10 - Jack Watts/Tom Scully - 45

And the top 6 have all played less games than that of Jones.

Granted, he is 1st for most disposals on the list @ 72% DE and 3rd for CP behind Moloney & Sylvia with Trengove not far behind and having missed 3-4 games. But he is ranked 4th overall on the list for most clangers, and really not that far behind being 1st.

He is also 2nd for goal assists and 3rd for inside 50's.

just watched the replay of the match, Bartrams inside work was second to none, his quick hands especially in the last quarter were top notch! granted he should have kicked a few goals, but what he is in the team for, his inside work, his pressure, and the fact that he took daniel kerr out of the match easily outweigh the fact he didnt put those goals in.

just watched the replay of the match, Bartrams inside work was second to none, his quick hands especially in the last quarter were top notch! granted he should have kicked a few goals, but what he is in the team for, his inside work, his pressure, and the fact that he took daniel kerr out of the match easily outweigh the fact he didnt put those goals in.

Nothing could outweigh his fatal mistakes.

If his hands were so good, why didn't he handball it to someone who can kick the damn footy?

Edited August 17, 201114 yr by e25

Nothing could outweigh his fatal mistakes.

If his hands were so good, why didn't he handball it to someone who can kick the damn footy?

because the people who can kick the footy didn't run as hard and get into the spaces like he did, having said that in the last quarter he fed it out to morton who kicked the goal

people are too harsh on him. Yes he isn't as polished as others but he has a damn crack, his defensive work cannont be questioned. Not every player can be a "show boat", you need someone to get in there and get the ball out to the show boats.

Great post. Talking sense post. The whole team is down on confidence, once that comes back, it'll be amazing how our skills across the board will improve.

If we judge all our players on their current form then none of them would get an AFL game again. I think this wacko emoticon sums up my face at the game today.

I thnk you're spot on - Bartram was one of or best last week, but let everyone down with his kicking for goal at critical stages. Not sure how you can get to this level without the ability to hit a target ( what is it 21 feet wide ?) from 30 metres. The coaches have something to answer for on this as well. His endeavour however is never in question, unlike some others ..

i disagree, kicking is something that you can work on, hard running, toughness, that is something that some players just do not have.

having said that i think that bail will be the number one tagger in our team, but i still think there is a definite spot for bartram who works twice as hard as any of the other players!

The official player review

Clint Bartram: Effectively curbed the influence of the very dangerous Daniel Kerr. Could have been best on ground, had he finished his hard work by kicking goals. His spread, willingness to work and his hardness in and around stoppage was outstanding.

Bit different to what people here are saying.

'Effectively curbed the influence of the very dangerous Daniel Kerr. Could have been best on ground, had he finished his hard work by kicking goals. His spread, willingness to work and his hardness in and around stoppage was outstanding.'

Thank god we still have some sensible heads in the coaches box, rather than idiot supporters who have no idea what they are rabbiting on about.

Edited August 17, 201114 yr by Deefence

'Effectively curbed the influence of the very dangerous Daniel Kerr. Could have been best on ground, had he finished his hard work by kicking goals. His spread, willingness to work and his hardness in and around stoppage was outstanding.'

Thank god we still have some sensible heads in the coaches box, rather than idiot supporters who have no idea what they are rabbiting on about.

Agree

There was a vey good article in the Age, can't find it now, about Kane Cornes and the why he is no longer the type of footballer clubs want. As they said Cornes is a Tagger and club's no longer need them they have just made the other midfielders more accountable and the successful clubs now require the top players to concentrate more on the defensive side of the game. They also said the Cornes can get plenty of the ball but he just doesn't hurt you when he does.

Bartram is an old fashioned hard at it type with little skill, certainly no more than Cornes, and plays a similar tagging role; if you were going to pick either who would you select? If there is no place for Cornes in today's game is there a place for Bartram?

Too slow and not skillfull enough it is time to go bartram.

I read that too.

It also talked about taggers becoming obsolete because of the press.

Mark Williams: 'Barts effectively curbed the influence of the very dangerous Daniel Kerr. Could have been best on ground, had he finished his hard work by kicking goals. His spread, willingness to work and his hardness in and around stoppage was outstanding.'-

No wonder we're struggling - and are turnover experts - when our Ball Movement Coach writes stuff like this.

Sounds like he thinks that moving the ball to the opposition is all part of the game plan.

What is a "Ball Movement Coach" anyway?

Edited August 17, 201114 yr by hoopla

'Effectively curbed the influence of the very dangerous Daniel Kerr. Could have been best on ground, had he finished his hard work by kicking goals. His spread, willingness to work and his hardness in and around stoppage was outstanding.'

Thank god we still have some sensible heads in the coaches box, rather than idiot supporters who have no idea what they are rabbiting on about.

Ummm...how do you know what people in the coaches box thought about Bart's performancs??

I read that too.

It also talked about taggers becoming obsolete because of the press.

pity nobody told Davey!