Jim was not the reluctant saviour that your mythology makes him out to be. He elbowed others out of the way, refused their help and occaisionally disparaged their contributions to the detriment of the club (see MFC "nuturing an environment of exclusivity (sic.) and ignorance” towards women).

He was then swept in to the position of "President" (previously "Chairman") on a wave of sentimental populism and bright promises for the future. The promises have not been kept but, as you demonstrate, the sentimental populism remains.

Having said that, as a charasmatic figurehead, I have no doubt that Jim has made a significant off field contribution to the club. I have no doubt that the "debt demolition" campaign was made more successful through Jim's involvement.

But don't kid yourself that we have Jim to thank for "saving the club". Rumors of the club's imminent death were exaggerated and, "debt demolition" aside, it's not like the club is in great shape now (thanks to 3 years of the Stynes Board). If we have anyone to thank it is each other as supporters who would have contributed when it was needed no matter who was rattling the tin.

As for Jim's legacy with the Reach Foundation, I applaud it. But as far as the MFC is concerned, it is clear that by refusing to step down Jim is putting his own pride ahead of the interests of the club.

Dumbest most bitter thing I have ever read.

As mentioned on another post; Debt gone, investments being purchased, record membership, state of the art facilities, a reunited club with the MCC, and then the bloke, half blind gets up and apologises for what has happened this week... does he have to take responsibility for every single person employed by the MFC personally? Do you have any clue how a large organisation works? Jim cannot do everything, others have to take responsibility.

Yeah the supporters paid for the Debt Demolition... who do you think orchestrated the whole thing?

Every single sporting organisation in the world would kill for the passion and workload Jim is willing to take on. Mate, the bloke is almost willing to die to see the club succeed!! If Fitzroy had a Jim Stynes they would not be playing in Queensland.

But I suppose it is easier to sit on the internet and take pot shots rather than have to actually do some something about it. Oh sorry did you put in some extra money once? Good On You!!! Thats the equivalent to dedicating ever spare hour you have to the club. Get a clue you fool.

Why do you even consider to knock the concept of the "Debt Demolition" Hazy??

So what if the supporters put money in-i did and was happy to do so.

The previous board could have done the same thing, but didn't.

Jim thought about doing something...and then DID IT....Good

He involved the members....and i hope that continues.

Who said he was ever the messiah?? But he did play 244 games in a row FOR THIS CLUB.

Not a bad little effort that.

I will not continue to respond to posts of this nature as I am aware that this will trigger 6 pages of ad hominem attacks.

Needless to say say that if you know what ad hominem means, you will also know that my character/beliefs have nothing to do with the validity of my arguments.

I'm not saying that they do. What I am saying is that you pick opportunistic times to bring up your valid arguments and your valid arguments are myopic to the board that deposed the Gardner board.

I don't want to do this now.

From where I sit - the board are the least of our issues.

ALL is the right word. Yip money is our weakness ... we need to build a massive "treasure chest". We need to find a way.

No leadership is our weakness. Strong leadership will galvanise the club and supporters to action. It's the leadership of McGuire, Costa and Dicker that have made their clubs great.

Jim Stynes provided leadership but that has been compromised by his terrible ill-health and it's not possible or fruitful to speculate where we might have been today if he hadn't got sick.

From where I sit - the board are the least of our issues.

I couldn't disagree more.

No leadership is our weakness. Strong leadership will galvanise the club and supporters to action. It's the leadership of McGuire, Costa and Dicker that have made their clubs great.

Jim Stynes provided leadership but that has been compromised by his terrible ill-health and it's not possible or fruitful to speculate where we might have been today if he hadn't got sick.

Fair enough I'm sure this point from many supporters has been taken loud and clear. This has got to be on the agenda ... but lets get everything on the agenda and seek the reason why this is the case.

With all due respect "McGuire, Costa and Dicker" could never have done it without the money. How did they get the money? What came first the money or the premiership. Collingwood have been investing for 10 years to "win" their premiership.

I couldn't disagree more.

You have hit the nail on the head ... we all see it from diffrent angles. Why we all have to give a bit.

Leadership, board, money, players & I'm sure others will have their reason. Get them ALL on the table and thrash this out.

Fair enough I'm sure this point from many supporters has been taken loud and clear. This has got to be on the agenda ... but lets get everything on the agenda and seek the reason why this is the case.

With all due respect "McGuire, Costa and Dicker" could never have done it without the money. How did they get the money? What came first the money or the premiership. Collingwood have been investing for 10 years to "win" their premiership.

What came first was leadership, then money. Even if there is money, without leadership it will be [censored] up against the wall. Your fighting fund is a good idea but it wont be established without leadership - people won't galvanise without leadership.

Lyon is not the messiah either, he is an ex-footballer media type who has had ample opportunity to show his commitment to the club in a meaningful capacity but has continuously failed to do so. In any case, his is no better qualified to manage our club than Sam Newman.

Unbeleivable. Your ignorance is alarming. I suppose you were the type of bagging him when he was suffering from a back injury and not playing.

That actually makes me feel sick that you are so negative towards a guy who has done more for the club that most and you could ever do.

I'm not saying that they do. What I am saying is that you pick opportunistic times to bring up your valid arguments and your valid arguments are myopic to the board that deposed the Gardner board.

I don't want to do this now.

From where I sit - the board are the least of our issues.

The Board are as involved in all this Sh!te just as much as everybody....Let's sort that out right now.

I couldn't disagree more.

Are you worried about the board itself or the lack of leadership from the board?

I agree that the latter is a concern but I am more worried about the meddlesome Admin, the focus of the FD, and the pathetic on-field leasership.

Maybe I am missing the forest for the trees, but at some point the grown-ups put in charge of areas have to act like one and take ownership over their own failures and problems.

Are you worried about the board itself or the lack of leadership from the board?

I agree that the latter is a concern but I am more worried about the meddlesome Admin, the focus of the FD, and the pathetic on-field leasership.

Maybe I am missing the forest for the trees, but at some point the grown-ups put in charge of areas have to act like one and take ownership over their own failures and problems.

Who is responsible for putting those people in charge (and getting rid of them if they're not up to the job)?

Worth noting that the head of what you call the 'meddlesome' admin, the CEO, has just had his contract extended.

Are you worried about the board itself or the lack of leadership from the board?

I agree that the latter is a concern but I am more worried about the meddlesome Admin, the focus of the FD, and the pathetic on-field leasership.

Maybe I am missing the forest for the trees, but at some point the grown-ups put in charge of areas have to act like one and take ownership over their own failures and problems.

Yes there have been failures all down the line and no-one is innocent, but the buck stops at the top:

- The senior players are sooking about their superannuation years rather than leading on the field

- The coach was not up to it

- The FD Manager appears to have been MIA

- The CEO was meddling in football matters while the finances burned

- The president was too sick to lead and too stubborn to leave

- No-one on the board appears to have said enough is enough

Who is responsible for putting those people in charge (and getting rid of them if they're not up to the job)?

Worth noting that the head of what you call the 'meddlesome' admin, the CEO, has just had his contract extended.

Yes there have been failures all down the line and no-one is innocent, but the buck stops at the top:

- The senior players are sooking about their superannuation years rather than leading on the field

- The coach was not up to it

- The FD Manager appears to have been MIA

- The CEO was meddling in football matters while the finances burned

- The president was too sick to lead and too stubborn to leave

- No-one on the board appears to have said enough is enough

I understand where you are coming from.

I can't defend the failures of the board in this mess.

I guess I am just disappointed with a bunch of Melbourne people - Schwab, Connolly, Green, Jones, Rivers, etc. being so, even unintentionally, destructive to the MFC.

I have no issues with the where the buck stops.

I am more focussed on the passing and ignoring of the buck along the way...

I am more focussed on the passing and ignoring of the buck along the way...

Nobody is innocent.

Nobody is innocent.

I am.

I am.

What about that night in '72 with that girl from Medely Hall?

We're almost certainly going to make finals in 2011.

Go on, check out the teams we're competing with for 8th, their remaining fixture, and ours.

It will take a few serious upsets for us to not slip in (assuming we beat GC, Richmond & Port).

Time to change the photo mate, he's not coming back!

What about that night in '72 with that girl from Medely Hall?

Alright I'm not.

What about that night in '72 with that girl from Medely Hall?

There wasn't much innocence in '66/'67 at Medley Hall either

edit: speelling

Time to change the photo mate, he's not coming back!

I have avatars switched off, so it'll probably stay for the foreseeable future...