Arrogance is a slow death. Ignorance is a slow death.

Look out Bombers.

HO007, theres a big difference between supporting a football club, and taking it to a degree where you wont say a negative thing or challenge any aspect of the orginisation! (which is wherre you've ended up)

I pay my membership every year, i buy a few of those $200 scratch and win cards each year, i contributed to debt demolition, i go to games when they play in WA (or im in VIC), and i purchase merchandise too. I'm happy with the level of support that i show the club.

I also have no problems with anyone who challenges or even criticises elements of the club, especially on a supporters forum where you know its more out of frustration than anything, if they back it up. After all if people dont question the status quo things will never change (for the good or bad).

I'm with you all the way ... as long as its constructive. I have no problems with that.

Your support ... sounds like you are giving 100% to me ... brilliant.

I have no problems with what you say. As long as the "challenges" are not media driven there are sometimes ulterior motives inside their words.

Hope that explains my position. Thanks for your help ... I'm no wordsmith and I'm not the sharpest tool in the old tool shed. I appreciate it again.

I nearly rest my case your honour ... these are not MFC supporters ... they are keyboard heroes that have self interest at heart. They could cost us dearly in the end, might make themselves feel good but will it be good for the MFC ?

Seriously, they would never have the balls to come from out behind their computer and say half the things they do to the players faces, the football department & the club they pretend to support.

Rubbish, supporting the club isn't just slapping everyone on the back and telling them how great they are. Criticism is a natural part of any sport. I never played footy to any great level but I copped plenty of criticism. Most of it was justified and made me a better player. If you or the players can't handle it you should find something else to do.

Look out Bombers.

hehehe ... I bloody well hope so, couldn't happen no a nicer bunch of pr*cks.

Rubbish, supporting the club isn't just slapping everyone on the back and telling them how great they are. Criticism is a natural part of any sport. I never played footy to any great level but I copped plenty of criticism. Most of it was justified and made me a better player.

I never said it was. Its not the words its the way we say it. Criticism is fantastic as long as it constructive, but sorry at times we are not.

If you or the players can't handle it you should find something else to do.

I can handle it, but does that make it right? I merely stated my opinion, funny thing is many around here don't want to hear it either when the boot is on the opposite foot.

But as I said above. I'm no wordsmith ... but I appreciate you challenging my points ... well within your rights. Robust debate is good.

I never said it was. Its not the words its the way we say it. Criticism is fantastic as long as it constructive, but sorry at times we are not.

I can handle it, but does that make it right? I merely stated my opinion, funny thing is many around here don't want to hear it either when the boot is on the opposite foot.

But as I said above. I'm no wordsmith ... but I appreciate you challenging my points ... well within your rights. Robust debate is good.

Constructive criticism doesn't work for us. Not for the past 45 years. At least vituperative criticism makes us feel better.

The 'Melbourne Culture' issue is an issue worth exploring.

I actually believe very strongly that every club has a distinct culture, which is driven by the senior players and recently retired past players. I actually am fairly certain Melbourne has a very very poor culture. No players absolutely driven for success. Too many happy to go along without doing the hardyards to take the leap from good player to champion.

Scully is a rare bread. He will work and work and work towards success. He accepts no less. It's the type of culture obssessed with getting the absolute best out of yourself which our club can build itself around

Scully, Trengove and Grimes- 3 players who take pride in being the best, preparing the best and doing everything it takes to become great players. Scully would lead them all.In 3 years time, Scully captain, Trengove, Grimes, Frawley, Jones and Mckenzie. Now that's a leadership group.

Green is a poor captian. Not a natural leader. Davey isn't a natural leader either. Both are not onfield leaders either.

Scully could well turn our club around and introduce a new culture and brand of leadership. If Scully does stay, he will be well worth it.

Scully does not strike me as a choice for captain. He is a fantastic trainer with a professional attitude, but he seems introverted and very focused on his own game. If you say that Green is a poor captain, why would you nominate Scully??

From what I have seen Watts and Trengove are the natural leaders at the club.

Scully does not strike me as a choice for captain. He is a fantastic trainer with a professional attitude, but he seems introverted and very focused on his own game. If you say that Green is a poor captain, why would you nominate Scully??

From what I have seen Watts and Trengove are the natural leaders at the club.

With respect, I think you are basing that on media performances and while that may be important, it is far from the extent of being a good captain.

With respect, I think you are basing that on media performances and while that may be important, it is far from the extent of being a good captain.

When all this blows over, it will be interesting to see what comes to the fore as I cannot help but feel that the situation this year would dampen the personality of the most seasoned footballer let alone a 20 year old. ( before I get yelled down - yes, it is of velocity's/TS making)

When all this blows over, it will be interesting to see what comes to the fore as I cannot help but feel that the situation this year would dampen the personality of the most seasoned footballer let alone a 20 year old. ( before I get yelled down - yes, it is of velocity's/TS making)

He's going to have to get over it.

Because the people that splashed 'traitor' in the paper, and are constantly inferring he is a liar, are the ones who are going to be asking him questions about his footy for the foreseeable future...

When all this blows over, it will be interesting to see what comes to the fore as I cannot help but feel that the situation this year would dampen the personality of the most seasoned footballer let alone a 20 year old. ( before I get yelled down - yes, it is of velocity's/TS making)

Indeed, when all this is put to bed ( wherever that may bve ) it will be very interesting to see what comes floating to the surface. I somehow feel that will be sometime down the track.

He is different this lad..without doubt

He's going to have to get over it.

Because the people that splashed 'traitor' in the paper, and are constantly inferring he is a liar, are the ones who are going to be asking him questions about his footy for the foreseeable future...

Probably the point I am trying to make is if I had the same sort of intense scrunity on me I am sure it would inhibit me and whilst I dont see Tom as a flamboyant extravert, I think when the flames dies down he could turn out to be a Chris Judd personality. I dont see Judd as a fabulous media performer but his steeliness does come across.

Scully does not strike me as a choice for captain. He is a fantastic trainer with a professional attitude, but he seems introverted and very focused on his own game. If you say that Green is a poor captain, why would you nominate Scully??

Van Berlo, Tom Harley, Darren Glass, Dominic Cassissi, Lenny Hayes, Brent Harvey, Daniel Giansiracusa strike me as all fantastic trainers with professional attitudes to their game and seem introverted to me - should that exclude them from being captains (current or past) of their respective clubs ?

Probably the point I am trying to make is if I had the same sort of intense scrunity on me I am sure it would inhibit me and whilst I dont see Tom as a flamboyant extravert, I think when the flames dies down he could turn out to be a Chris Judd personality. I dont see Judd as a fabulous media performer but his steeliness does come across.

That's true.

BTW - the charade that Judd put us, the Pies, and the Bombers through was far worse than what Scully/Velocity are doing with us.

But that is just my view - others may disagree.

That's true.

BTW - the charade that Judd put us, the Pies, and the Bombers through was far worse than what Scully/Velocity are doing with us.

But that is just my view - others may disagree.

Don't worry. You will change your mind soon.

With respect, I think you are basing that on media performances and while that may be important, it is far from the extent of being a good captain.

Van Berlo, Tom Harley, Darren Glass, Dominic Cassissi, Lenny Hayes, Brent Harvey, Daniel Giansiracusa strike me as all fantastic trainers with professional attitudes to their game and seem introverted to me - should that exclude them from being captains (current or past) of their respective clubs ?

Brent Harvey is a poor leader, but that's another topic.

I don't think it would exclude him from being a captain, I was questioning why the poster thinks that he should be captain, especially when saying what a poor leader of players Brad Green is. I believe that they share similar traits.

I have seen leadership from Watts, Grimes, Tregove, Jones, Moloney and Sylvia, I have not seen it from Scully. He may be a good choice for captain one day, but aside from being a great trainer and professional, he does not seem like a natural leader.

He's going to have to get over it.

Because the people that splashed 'traitor' in the paper, and are constantly inferring he is a liar, are the ones who are going to be asking him questions about his footy for the foreseeable future...

Really good point.

IMHO I dont care what another clubs want to offer us .... I dont care what the AFL want to give us via "compensation" .... either can offer us 20 picks ie picks 1,2,3,5,7,9,11,15 etc some (ok me then) are not interested.

Tom is one of us now .... Tom has done nothing wrong ... all he asked for was some TIME. Time to let a 19YO make a life long decision. Listen to Toms words.

However, here is the bazinga moment!!!!

You can't force someone to love the jumper.

No love takes time.

I'm with you all the way ... as long as its constructive. I have no problems with that.

Who determines what's constructive, or otherwise ?

He'll stay. Just saying.

Who determines what's constructive, or otherwise ?

Surely the mods?

But its also up to us to help the mods & ask the poster to clarify himself ... "oh are you sure thats a constructive comment." There my words told you I was no wordsmith ...

IMHO many have the correct intentions they just say it in a belittling way. We have some great minds around here, vastly, vastly superior to me, by a country mile. I just hope they use those minds in a positive way.

That's true.

BTW - the charade that Judd put us, the Pies, and the Bombers through was far worse than what Scully/Velocity are doing with us.

But that is just my view - others may disagree.

are you now calling this a charade ?

Without any new, or supposedly new information; has this thread lost its way?

are you now calling this a charade ?

I didn't know you were, BB...

I just mean the delaying of negotiations, not any apparent falsities in what they have said. Perhaps a poor choice of words.

Judd put three clubs through something rivalling Best In Show without the laughs...

Without any new, or supposedly new information; has this thread lost its way?

Can't lose something you never had.

Still hope Tom Scully stay's, above any compensation the AFL will give us....