http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/no-rest-for-the-bench/story-e6frf9jf-1226022084920

The plan is for the substitute, depending on actual game time played, to complete a rigorous training session after the match, to ensure match fitness is maintained.

Fun.

Oh, and for those that think a ruckman will be a sub - unless we are subbing Jamar (un-effing-likely) we would stunting our run.

Yes, the substitue will need to be a versatile player, not necessarily tall, but it will necessitate the use of guys like Morton or Dunn who are big AND mobile, so players can be shifted around the ground to fill holes.

They will rotate.

The substitute will also change week to week, even if fitness is maintained via extra training.

These things I'm stating may seem obvious, but many have missed them up to this point.

My guess is you want the runners rotating frequently with the versatile players like Martin, Newton etc as subs. Problem is if a runner gets injured.

We will probably see more of Jamar resting in the fwd line for 5 mins rather than coming off the ground with Dunn, Sylvia etc taking the odd ruck hit out.

Edited March 16, 201114 yr by jnrmac

My guess is you want the runners rotating frequently with the versatile players like Martin, Newton etc as subs. Problem is if a runner gets injured.

We will probably see more of Jamar resting in the fwd line for 5 mins rather than coming off the ground with Dunn, Sylvia etc taking the odd ruck hit out.

No way would you sacrifice a runner to get Newton or Martin into the game.

Doesn't make sense.

No way would you sacrifice a runner to get Newton or Martin into the game.

Doesn't make sense.

He didn't say that, he said that runners would be in the 21 rotating and that you would need a versatile jack of all trades like newton or martin as the sub

Which does make sense

They have been doing that at the highest levels of rugby for years. I recall during the Rugby WC in Aust after a game at Docklands seeing all of the subs doing suicide sprints up and down the ground for at least an hour after the game had finished.

It's not like this is new to Melbourne.

After sitting on the pine for much of the game Godfrey used to run the tan.

He didn't say that, he said that runners would be in the 21 rotating and that you would need a versatile jack of all trades like newton or martin as the sub

Which does make sense

No it doesn't.

Say (numbers purely for the sake of an example) you have 15 runners (mids, flankers, pockets) and 6 talls (rucks, tall forwards, tall backs - which is the category Newton and Martin would go in).

Chances are, if there is an injury, it will be to a runner, by sheer weight of numbers.

If the runner is replaced by Martin or Newton, then you will be 1 runner short - 14 runners and 7 talls.

Generally you'd want a guy like Morton in the team who can play both positions - he can be a runner or a tall, depending on who comes in, and maintain the status quo.

But in the absence of someone like this, the ideal situation is to have a small as the sub.

If Jamar's backup in Martin or Newton is the sub (as it appears is the intention), then to maintain the 15 & 6, Jamar or another tall needs to be subbed off to give him a rest. Meaning you are stuck with Martin or Newton for the rest of the match, and up until that point Jamar doesn't get relief.

It's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but, I think, a valid one.

If Jamar's backup in Martin or Newton is the sub (as it appears is the intention), then to maintain the 15 & 6, Jamar or another tall needs to be subbed off to give him a rest. Meaning you are stuck with Martin or Newton for the rest of the match, and up until that point Jamar doesn't get relief.

It's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but, I think, a valid one.

It's hard to predict how this will go, but I would think that you need the relief ruck to be playing.

Guys like Morton and Bail might be handy as a sub because they're versatile, but those two happen to have good endurance so that may mean they're more likely to play in the 21.

It's hard to predict how this will go, but I would think that you need the relief ruck to be playing.

Guys like Morton and Bail might be handy as a sub because they're versatile, but those two happen to have good endurance so that may mean they're more likely to play in the 21.

I agree.

Morton should not be used as the sub, but rotated around the field to cover a tall or small position as needed.

I should clarify - I believe the intention of having Newton or Martin as the sub (as proposed by jnrmac and backed up by ucanchoose), is as relief for Jamar.

I'm pointing out why I believe this would not work.

Unless another ruck like Spencer is on the bench, which makes the situation even more ridiculous - starting off 1 runner down and potentially being down by 2 runners.

Edited March 18, 201114 yr by e25

I should clarify - I believe the intention of having Newton or Martin as the sub (as proposed by jnrmac and backed up by ucanchoose), is as relief for Jamar.

I'm pointing out why I believe this would not work.

My point was that there would need to be a backup for Jamar on the bench, are we going to play that person in the 21?

If not, which was my point, is that MAYBE they would have someone that could be used as a ruckman/backman/dodgy foward option (like a Newton or a Martin) who could cover a variety of positions.

We need ruck cover somwhere, where will it be. Some clubs will run with 2 in the 21, some won't. I think we won't. Some clubs will have an extra mid as the sub. I'm not sure we will. That is all

Where is your ruck help for Jamar in your squad E25?

Edited March 18, 201114 yr by ucanchoose

I remember RIccardi late in his career was used as a burst player. If you can bring a guy in as a dedicated sub, that is only going to play half games, you might be able to maintain a bloke's career a bit longer. I could have seen JMac being used like this for example... Doesn't help much if someone does a knee in the first five minutes of course.

My point was that there would need to be a backup for Jamar on the bench, are we going to play that person in the 21?

If not, which was my point, is that MAYBE they would have someone that could be used as a ruckman/backman/dodgy foward option (like a Newton or a Martin) who could cover a variety of positions.

We need ruck cover somwhere, where will it be. Some clubs will run with 2 in the 21, some won't. I think we won't. Some clubs will have an extra mid as the sub. I'm not sure we will. That is all

Where is your ruck help for Jamar in your squad E25?

Simple.

On the bench.

In the rotation of 21.

Simple.

On the bench.

In the rotation of 21.

Not really simple, what happens if you lose Jamar in the 1st quarter?

We don't have any third tall?

Sylvia into ruck again like last year

We get slaugtered

Well shall wait and see how ALL the clubs pan out!

Putting aside whatever ends up happening with the substitute, it was great to see the boys training at the 'G

So sick of reading about and speculating about it. Can't wait for next Sunday!

This is the most interesting, and unknown, change to the game in ages. How will teams play the 21+1? I could imagine a substitute needing a session to keep in shape, so it is a fair point.

How do we play the roles? A runner for later legspeed? A runner in case a runner gets injured? A versatile swing player that can do more than one role? A 'tall' that comes in at a designated time (Rolling the Brendan Favola memorial dice, hoping for no injuries?)...I will really be interested to see how each team tries to make the most of what I think is a crappy rule (I would have preferred 22 + 1 medico certified injury replacement).

Bring it on...and by round 6 we will have seen how the coaches and clubs have thought about the variations of this.

I would have the back-up for Jamar in the 21 and then have him subbed around 3 qtr time and have Jamar run out the game in the ruck.

Will give us some more run and we will want Jamar in the middle at the end anyway...

Not really simple, what happens if you lose Jamar in the 1st quarter?

We don't have any third tall?

Sylvia into ruck again like last year

We get slaugtered

Of course this is a risk, but which is more likely to happen - an injury to Jamar or an injury to a key runner? As e25 said already - sheer weight of numbers suggests it's more likely to be the runner. You've got to cover contingencies but you can't cover every contingency - in fact you can really only cover one - so to me it makes sense to cover the more likely and probably more critical one.

The loss of Jamar early in the match is a contingency I'd de-prioritise, firstly due to low probability, and secondly because it's already partially covered already by having your second ruck (Newton/Martin et al) in the rotation of 21.