Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Posted

Fun.

Oh, and for those that think a ruckman will be a sub - unless we are subbing Jamar (un-effing-likely) we would stunting our run.

Posted

Yes, the substitue will need to be a versatile player, not necessarily tall, but it will necessitate the use of guys like Morton or Dunn who are big AND mobile, so players can be shifted around the ground to fill holes.

They will rotate.

The substitute will also change week to week, even if fitness is maintained via extra training.

These things I'm stating may seem obvious, but many have missed them up to this point.

Posted (edited)

My guess is you want the runners rotating frequently with the versatile players like Martin, Newton etc as subs. Problem is if a runner gets injured.

We will probably see more of Jamar resting in the fwd line for 5 mins rather than coming off the ground with Dunn, Sylvia etc taking the odd ruck hit out.

Edited by jnrmac
Posted

My guess is you want the runners rotating frequently with the versatile players like Martin, Newton etc as subs. Problem is if a runner gets injured.

We will probably see more of Jamar resting in the fwd line for 5 mins rather than coming off the ground with Dunn, Sylvia etc taking the odd ruck hit out.

No way would you sacrifice a runner to get Newton or Martin into the game.

Doesn't make sense.

Posted

No way would you sacrifice a runner to get Newton or Martin into the game.

Doesn't make sense.

He didn't say that, he said that runners would be in the 21 rotating and that you would need a versatile jack of all trades like newton or martin as the sub

Which does make sense

Posted

They have been doing that at the highest levels of rugby for years. I recall during the Rugby WC in Aust after a game at Docklands seeing all of the subs doing suicide sprints up and down the ground for at least an hour after the game had finished.


Posted

He didn't say that, he said that runners would be in the 21 rotating and that you would need a versatile jack of all trades like newton or martin as the sub

Which does make sense

No it doesn't.

Say (numbers purely for the sake of an example) you have 15 runners (mids, flankers, pockets) and 6 talls (rucks, tall forwards, tall backs - which is the category Newton and Martin would go in).

Chances are, if there is an injury, it will be to a runner, by sheer weight of numbers.

If the runner is replaced by Martin or Newton, then you will be 1 runner short - 14 runners and 7 talls.

Generally you'd want a guy like Morton in the team who can play both positions - he can be a runner or a tall, depending on who comes in, and maintain the status quo.

But in the absence of someone like this, the ideal situation is to have a small as the sub.

If Jamar's backup in Martin or Newton is the sub (as it appears is the intention), then to maintain the 15 & 6, Jamar or another tall needs to be subbed off to give him a rest. Meaning you are stuck with Martin or Newton for the rest of the match, and up until that point Jamar doesn't get relief.

It's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but, I think, a valid one.

Posted
If Jamar's backup in Martin or Newton is the sub (as it appears is the intention), then to maintain the 15 & 6, Jamar or another tall needs to be subbed off to give him a rest. Meaning you are stuck with Martin or Newton for the rest of the match, and up until that point Jamar doesn't get relief.

It's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but, I think, a valid one.

It's hard to predict how this will go, but I would think that you need the relief ruck to be playing.

Guys like Morton and Bail might be handy as a sub because they're versatile, but those two happen to have good endurance so that may mean they're more likely to play in the 21.

Posted (edited)

It's hard to predict how this will go, but I would think that you need the relief ruck to be playing.

Guys like Morton and Bail might be handy as a sub because they're versatile, but those two happen to have good endurance so that may mean they're more likely to play in the 21.

I agree.

Morton should not be used as the sub, but rotated around the field to cover a tall or small position as needed.

I should clarify - I believe the intention of having Newton or Martin as the sub (as proposed by jnrmac and backed up by ucanchoose), is as relief for Jamar.

I'm pointing out why I believe this would not work.

Unless another ruck like Spencer is on the bench, which makes the situation even more ridiculous - starting off 1 runner down and potentially being down by 2 runners.

Edited by e25
Posted (edited)

I should clarify - I believe the intention of having Newton or Martin as the sub (as proposed by jnrmac and backed up by ucanchoose), is as relief for Jamar.

I'm pointing out why I believe this would not work.

My point was that there would need to be a backup for Jamar on the bench, are we going to play that person in the 21?

If not, which was my point, is that MAYBE they would have someone that could be used as a ruckman/backman/dodgy foward option (like a Newton or a Martin) who could cover a variety of positions.

We need ruck cover somwhere, where will it be. Some clubs will run with 2 in the 21, some won't. I think we won't. Some clubs will have an extra mid as the sub. I'm not sure we will. That is all

Where is your ruck help for Jamar in your squad E25?

Edited by ucanchoose
Posted

I remember RIccardi late in his career was used as a burst player. If you can bring a guy in as a dedicated sub, that is only going to play half games, you might be able to maintain a bloke's career a bit longer. I could have seen JMac being used like this for example... Doesn't help much if someone does a knee in the first five minutes of course.

Posted

My point was that there would need to be a backup for Jamar on the bench, are we going to play that person in the 21?

If not, which was my point, is that MAYBE they would have someone that could be used as a ruckman/backman/dodgy foward option (like a Newton or a Martin) who could cover a variety of positions.

We need ruck cover somwhere, where will it be. Some clubs will run with 2 in the 21, some won't. I think we won't. Some clubs will have an extra mid as the sub. I'm not sure we will. That is all

Where is your ruck help for Jamar in your squad E25?

Simple.

On the bench.

In the rotation of 21.

Posted

Simple.

On the bench.

In the rotation of 21.

Not really simple, what happens if you lose Jamar in the 1st quarter?

We don't have any third tall?

Sylvia into ruck again like last year

We get slaugtered

Well shall wait and see how ALL the clubs pan out!

Posted

This is the most interesting, and unknown, change to the game in ages. How will teams play the 21+1? I could imagine a substitute needing a session to keep in shape, so it is a fair point.

How do we play the roles? A runner for later legspeed? A runner in case a runner gets injured? A versatile swing player that can do more than one role? A 'tall' that comes in at a designated time (Rolling the Brendan Favola memorial dice, hoping for no injuries?)...I will really be interested to see how each team tries to make the most of what I think is a crappy rule (I would have preferred 22 + 1 medico certified injury replacement).

Bring it on...and by round 6 we will have seen how the coaches and clubs have thought about the variations of this.

Posted

I would have the back-up for Jamar in the 21 and then have him subbed around 3 qtr time and have Jamar run out the game in the ruck.

Will give us some more run and we will want Jamar in the middle at the end anyway...


Posted

Not really simple, what happens if you lose Jamar in the 1st quarter?

We don't have any third tall?

Sylvia into ruck again like last year

We get slaugtered

Of course this is a risk, but which is more likely to happen - an injury to Jamar or an injury to a key runner? As e25 said already - sheer weight of numbers suggests it's more likely to be the runner. You've got to cover contingencies but you can't cover every contingency - in fact you can really only cover one - so to me it makes sense to cover the more likely and probably more critical one.

The loss of Jamar early in the match is a contingency I'd de-prioritise, firstly due to low probability, and secondly because it's already partially covered already by having your second ruck (Newton/Martin et al) in the rotation of 21.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    2024 Player Reviews: #36 Kysaiah Pickett

    The Demons’ aggressive small forward who kicks goals and defends the Demons’ ball in the forward arc. When he’s on song, he’s unstoppable but he did blot his copybook with a three week suspension in the final round. Date of Birth: 2 June 2001 Height: 171cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 106 Goals MFC 2024: 36 Career Total: 161 Brownlow Medal Votes: 3 Melbourne Football Club: 4th Best & Fairest: 369 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Friday 15th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers took advantage of the beautiful sunshine to head down to Gosch's Paddock and witness the return of Clayton Oliver to club for his first session in the lead up to the 2025 season. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Clarry in the house!! Training: JVR, McVee, Windsor, Tholstrup, Woey, Brown, Petty, Adams, Chandler, Turner, Bowey, Seston, Kentfield, Laurie, Sparrow, Viney, Rivers, Jefferson, Hore, Howes, Verrall, AMW, Clarry Tom Campbell is here

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #7 Jack Viney

    The tough on baller won his second Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Trophy in a narrow battle with skipper Max Gawn and Alex Neal-Bullen and battled on manfully in the face of a number of injury niggles. Date of Birth: 13 April 1994 Height: 178cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 219 Goals MFC 2024: 10 Career Total: 66 Brownlow Medal Votes: 8

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 3

    TRAINING: Wednesday 13th November 2024

    A couple of Demonland Trackwatchers braved the rain and headed down to Gosch's paddock to bring you their observations from the second day of Preseason training for the 1st to 4th Year players. DITCHA'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I attended some of the training today. Richo spoke to me and said not to believe what is in the media, as we will good this year. Jefferson and Kentfield looked big and strong.  Petty was doing all the training. Adams looked like he was in rehab.  KE

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #15 Ed Langdon

    The Demon running machine came back with a vengeance after a leaner than usual year in 2023.  Date of Birth: 1 February 1996 Height: 182cm Games MFC 2024: 22 Career Total: 179 Goals MFC 2024: 9 Career Total: 76 Brownlow Medal Votes: 5 Melbourne Football Club: 5th Best & Fairest: 352 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 8

    2024 Player Reviews: #24 Trent Rivers

    The premiership defender had his best year yet as he was given the opportunity to move into the midfield and made a good fist of it. Date of Birth: 30 July 2001 Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 100 Goals MFC 2024: 2 Career Total:  9 Brownlow Medal Votes: 7 Melbourne Football Club: 6th Best & Fairest: 350 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 2

    TRAINING: Monday 11th November 2024

    Veteran Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin, Slartibartfast & Demon Wheels were on hand at Gosch's Paddock to kick off the official first training session for the 1st to 4th year players with a few elder statesmen in attendance as well. KEV MARTIN'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Beautiful morning. Joy all round, they look like they want to be there.  21 in the squad. Looks like the leadership group is TMac, Viney Chandler and Petty. They look like they have sli

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 2

    2024 Player Reviews: #1 Steven May

    The years are rolling by but May continued to be rock solid in a key defensive position despite some injury concerns. He showed great resilience in coming back from a nasty rib injury and is expected to continue in that role for another couple of seasons. Date of Birth: 10 January 1992 Height: 193cm Games MFC 2024: 19 Career Total: 235 Goals MFC 2024: 1 Career Total: 24 Melbourne Football Club: 9th Best & Fairest: 316 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 3

    2024 Player Reviews: #4 Judd McVee

    It was another strong season from McVee who spent most of his time mainly at half back but he also looked at home on a few occasions when he was moved into the midfield. There could be more of that in 2025. Date of Birth: 7 August 2003 Height: 185cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 48 Goals MFC 2024: 1 Career Total: 1 Brownlow Medal Votes: 1 Melbourne Football Club: 7th Best & Fairest: 347 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...