On 11/10/2010 at 03:16, Inner Demon said:

Post Trade Week breakdown

OUT

Miller

Bell

Cheney

McDonald

IN

McKenzie

Spencer

Round 1 Pick

Round 2 Pick

UNCONTRACTED

Johnson

McNamara

Bruce (Bruce would only open up a rookie spot however as he is on the Veteran's List and with Green moving on to take Junior's spot we have no other eligible players to move from Senior List)

We now have an extra 3rd round pick as a result of trading Cheney so both Johnson & McNamara being delisted would open up 2 more 3rd round picks.

You would think PJ would be the most likely to be cut.

I think Spencer, Fitzpatrick, and Gawn are enough depth for myn, even though 2 of the three are not quite ready or even all of them. Get games in to them ready or not.

Seems likely to me that both McNamara & Johnson will be cut. Otherwise we don't use the pick we just got in the Cheney trade.

The other awful, awful possibility here is that we promote Newton to the senior list. I most certainly hope that nightmare doesn't materialise and I suppose I'll just have to make peace with him being retained on the rookie list.

Failing that total disaster, we would potentially have 5 picks in the rookie draft with McKenzie & Spencer being elevated, Meesen heading into part-time coaching, time running out on Hughes and Healey being cut.

  On 11/10/2010 at 03:52, Inner Demon said:

Seems likely to me that both McNamara & Johnson will be cut. Otherwise we don't use the pick we just got in the Cheney trade.

The other awful, awful possibility here is that we promote Newton to the senior list. I most certainly hope that nightmare doesn't materialise and I suppose I'll just have to make peace with him being retained on the rookie list.

Failing that total disaster, we would potentially have 5 picks in the rookie draft with McKenzie & Spencer being elevated, Meesen heading into part-time coaching, time running out on Hughes and Healey being cut.

If we cut PJ who is going to relieve Jamar in the ruck in R1 2011?

FWIW with the new 21 + 1 there's no way I'd go in with Jamar and Spencer, they're alternatives.

Is Fitzy ready? If Newton is on the rookie list and we retain Bruce, can we elevate him somehow or do we need a LTI?

  On 11/10/2010 at 05:00, old55 said:

If we cut PJ who is going to relieve Jamar in the ruck in R1 2011?

FWIW with the new 21 + 1 there's no way I'd go in with Jamar and Spencer, they're alternatives.

Is Fitzy ready? If Newton is on the rookie list and we retain Bruce, can we elevate him somehow or do we need a LTI?

What is your opinion of Martin for relief for Jamar in the ruck in R1 2011 ?

  On 11/10/2010 at 05:00, old55 said:

If we cut PJ who is going to relieve Jamar in the ruck in R1 2011?

FWIW with the new 21 + 1 there's no way I'd go in with Jamar and Spencer, they're alternatives.

Is Fitzy ready? If Newton is on the rookie list and we retain Bruce, can we elevate him somehow or do we need a LTI?

I'd say we'll go with Jamar solo as we did on several occasions this year. Every team is going to have the same dilemma. Not having a back-up doesn't seem to bother Aaron Sandilands most weeks.

If we retain Bruce we can only elevate Newton via an LTI or if we promote him permanently alongside Spencer & McKenzie.

Incidentally, McKenzie has signed a 2 year deal as a senior player.

Stef Martin good in theory - in practice ???

Freo use Michael Johnson.

  On 11/10/2010 at 05:57, old55 said:

Stef Martin good in theory - in practice ???

Freo use Michael Johnson.

If Freo get by using 194cm Michael Johnson while Sandilands has a breather I don't see why we can't use 192cm Lynden Dunn in the same way, particularly since Dunn can play both high half-forward and inside 50.

That is, of course, if none of our ruckman height players earn their way into the team as forwards.

  On 11/10/2010 at 06:03, Inner Demon said:

If Freo get by using 194cm Michael Johnson while Sandilands has a breather I don't see why we can't use 192cm Lynden Dunn in the same way, particularly since Dunn can play both high half-forward and inside 50.

That is, of course, if none of our ruckman height players earn their way into the team as forwards.

Don't forget Freo has just traded to get Jonathon Griffin.

I still have real faith in Stefan Martin!

Has all the attributes, just needs time and i think he is worth throwing in there as that forward target and pinch ruckman.

198cm, agile, will create a contest with every delivery inside 50.

Not sure about others but i like him and hope he has a great season for us!

  On 11/10/2010 at 07:37, mousey said:

Has all the attributes, just needs time and i think he is worth throwing in there as that forward target and pinch ruckman.

198cm, agile, will create a contest with every delivery inside 50.

No doubting that he has all the attributes, the only question mark remains over when he is actually any good or not, and the idea of all our eggs being in the one basket there makes me nervous.

I agree with old though that Martin sounds good in theory. He definitely has all the attributes to fill the prototype 'forward-ruck' role.

  On 11/10/2010 at 07:37, mousey said:

I still have real faith in Stefan Martin!

As do I.

I'm a big fan. Just need to teach him to kick with a bit more conviction. I mean if Jamar could do it, why can't Martin?

He's a good mark, he's athletic, and he can ruck moderately well. Has time on his side of a big man and is versatile enough to be thrown down back in case of emergency.

Forward-Ruck is clearly the big issue the FD wants to solve. We started 2010 R1 with Jake Spencer forward and we ended it with Michael Newton. In between we tried Dunn, Sylvia! and PJ. Finally a failed attempt to get David Hale. I'm hoping there's a further plan because none of those alternatives or Martin thrill me. Maybe Fitzy can come on hard and fast.

  On 11/10/2010 at 21:30, old55 said:

Forward-Ruck is clearly the big issue the FD wants to solve. We started 2010 R1 with Jake Spencer forward and we ended it with Michael Newton. In between we tried Dunn, Sylvia! and PJ. Finally a failed attempt to get David Hale. I'm hoping there's a further plan because none of those alternatives or Martin thrill me. Maybe Fitzy can come on hard and fast.

When you asked earlier who you thought would relieve Jamar in the ruck for Rd 1 - 2011 I figured Martin might be the best option at present. Certainly if Fitzy could come on hard & fast - that would be something else, but he is coming from a long way back. Martin is at least in the interim physical enough to give some sort of presence up forward. Not what we'd like in the air, but enough to help create a contest and take one of the key opposition backs. Fwiw, Martin doesn't thrill me either. I suppose the other option, dare I say it, is in fact Newton. As you can see, it definitely is a big issue that needs to be addressed. I'm confident enough for the FD to pull the right strings eventually.

Fingers crossed for Fitzy.

  On 11/10/2010 at 22:27, High Tower said:

When you asked earlier who you thought would relieve Jamar in the ruck for Rd 1 - 2011 I figured Martin might be the best option at present. Certainly if Fitzy could come on hard & fast - that would be something else, but he is coming from a long way back. Martin is at least in the interim physical enough to give some sort of presence up forward. Not what we'd like in the air, but enough to help create a contest and take one of the key opposition backs. Fwiw, Martin doesn't thrill me either. I suppose the other option, dare I say it, is in fact Newton. As you can see, it definitely is a big issue that needs to be addressed. I'm confident enough for the FD to pull the right strings eventually.

Fingers crossed for Fitzy.

IMO one of the spots in the best 21+1 has to be Fitzy/Newton/Martin/mature-draftee. I'd delist PJ, he can't do it and Spencer is Jamar's depth. I don't like rucking Dunn because his role is defensive forward and that is a specific role that he has been doing really well - while he's rucking or resting their half-back is running free. I think it's a cop-out not to make the hard call when naminng the 21+1 and not include a forward-ruck.

having a second ruckman or someone who can play in the ruck and go forward is an issue.

BUT if the coach and the football department are any good they will already be working scenarios to cover this. Gawn and Fitzy will have to start somewhere and specner, martin and pj will have to step up or step out.

i'm expecting spencer and martin to get many chances in the nab cup games.

  On 11/10/2010 at 22:52, old55 said:

IMO one of the spots in the best 21+1 has to be Fitzy/Newton/Martin/mature-draftee. I'd delist PJ, he can't do it and Spencer is Jamar's depth. I don't like rucking Dunn because his role is defensive forward and that is a specific role that he has been doing really well - while he's rucking or resting their half-back is running free. I think it's a cop-out not to make the hard call when naminng the 21+1 and not include a forward-ruck.

Agreed. In your thread I have Martin as the +1 (sub).

  On 11/10/2010 at 22:52, old55 said:

IMO one of the spots in the best 21+1 has to be Fitzy/Newton/Martin/mature-draftee. I'd delist PJ, he can't do it and Spencer is Jamar's depth. I don't like rucking Dunn because his role is defensive forward and that is a specific role that he has been doing really well - while he's rucking or resting their half-back is running free. I think it's a cop-out not to make the hard call when naminng the 21+1 and not include a forward-ruck.

totally agree on all points old55 - good post

  On 11/10/2010 at 23:57, daisycutter said:

totally agree on all points old55 - good post

Working on the theory that they will only delist 1 more for a total of 3 draft picks this year, i wouldn't be surprised if it was T-Mac.

We have key back depth with Warnock and Martin(remember Martin played his best footy there also) and also remembering Grimes to come back in at the expense of one of the blokes who played there in the latter half of the year.

PJ- like him or loathe him (and i'm the latter) still provides the most ready made back-up for Jamar. Spencer is still a work in progress and the others are too far off the mark at the moment. Spencer at this stage is also useless around the ground (moreso than PJ).

I would love to see them delist both and use 4 picks but in a compromised draft i don't see that happening. With the old equation, what is likely to provide better value for MFC, a 4th round speculative pick or PJ/T-Mac. Other draft years they may take the draft pick but i just don't think they will this year.

  On 11/10/2010 at 23:24, High Tower said:

Agreed. In your thread I have Martin as the +1 (sub).

Someone has to relieve Jamar during the first half aswell, HT.

The backup ruck cannot be the sub.

Won't work.

I agree.

During the course of the game you're much more likely to lose a mid to injury.

I'd say the substitute spot will be rotated between mids each week. Versatile types that can slide into the middle or onto a flank.

  On 12/10/2010 at 11:33, Grandson of a gun said:

PJ- like him or loathe him (and i'm the latter) still provides the most ready made back-up for Jamar.

He cant ruck and cant pinch forward. He is no insurance on Jamar. MFC would be better off pumping games into Spencer who physically contests in the ruck and around the ground and at 21 should improve. I have seen enough of PJ to know that WYSIWYG. Its not good enough.

Watts can back Jamar up, and save the sub spot for another runner.

Watts has the height and leap to compete with any ruckman in the league, and will have one more preseason into his body. With the rule change, I doubt many teams will have two big bodied physical ruckman, so Watts can ruck against their backups without getting smashed. We would also create some nightmares for opposition coaches with his speed and skill on the ball.

  On 13/10/2010 at 02:28, Thomo said:

Watts can back Jamar up, and save the sub spot for another runner.

Watts has the height and leap to compete with any ruckman in the league, and will have one more preseason into his body. With the rule change, I doubt many teams will have two big bodied physical ruckman, so Watts can ruck against their backups without getting smashed. We would also create some nightmares for opposition coaches with his speed and skill on the ball.

Having the fastest wheelchair won't help anybody

  On 13/10/2010 at 02:28, Thomo said:

Watts can back Jamar up, and save the sub spot for another runner.

Watts has the height and leap to compete with any ruckman in the league, and will have one more preseason into his body. With the rule change, I doubt many teams will have two big bodied physical ruckman, so Watts can ruck against their backups without getting smashed. We would also create some nightmares for opposition coaches with his speed and skill on the ball.

Oh my god.

Please tell me the rest of you don't want this.

I don't want Watts having his body battered by being forced to compete in the ruck.

I'm pretty sure the FD are smart enough to avoid this.