Do some reading RR. The Facts are all there. The next Broadcasting rights are not Being sold for around $1 Billion for nothing. All parties want the maximum return, and that includes the grounds on match day.

Your AFL conspiracy theories as usual holds as much water as a sieve. Absolutely no idea whatsoever.

The Broadcasting rights have absolutely nothing to do with your silly cocked conspiracy. Flaccid pretence in dire need of substance.

. . . Write to the club, or the AFL, because the Demonland clash guernsey debate is going no where.

Au contraire. The discussion is quite interesting. I don't agree necessarily with some points (on either side) but it is certainly thought provoking. It's especially great to see more passion around this club. Sometimes its just the finest of points that makes a difference. We should never totally close our minds to different POVs. he AFL has changed its mind on many things before. AFL personnel come and go, circumstances change. Might take a few years or many years but nothing is a done deal for ever. There are many supporters who have been waiting over 40 years, we are a patient, passionate lot.

This club may have strayed from its traditions for a while (to its great detriment) but is now re-embracing them in the most positive way. We may not make a major change on this issue but we may gain some concessions (e.g. on which games are genuine clashes) but thats no excuse to rollover.

Red & Blue forever

Your AFL conspiracy theories as usual holds as much water as a sieve. Absolutely no idea whatsoever.

The Broadcasting rights have absolutely nothing to do with your silly cocked conspiracy. Flaccid pretence in dire need of substance.

Brilliant response to a passionate but sometimes misguided footy fan. Good stuff.

Your AFL conspiracy theories as usual holds as much water as a sieve. Absolutely no idea whatsoever.

The Broadcasting rights have absolutely nothing to do with your silly cocked conspiracy. Flaccid pretence in dire need of substance.

I wouldn't ever expect to convince you RR, because you are infalable of course, but i can assure you that Months and months of marketing and Psychology has gone into the Broadcasting deals, Its no coincident that the Clash Jumper has become a hotter topic over the last 2-3 years.

Like i said do some research, I guarrantee you will find it most interesting.

Its up there with the worst of them 45....Absolute garbage.

Why do you remind me of Dennis Hopper, the photographer out of Apocalypse Now. The similarity is just scary...

Rhino - the moderate "moderator"

sometimes it's best to say nothing if you have nothing to add to the discussion

I wouldn't ever expect to convince you RR, because you are infalable of course, but i can assure you that Months and months of marketing and Psychology has gone into the Broadcasting deals, Its no coincident that the Clash Jumper has become a hotter topic over the last 2-3 years.

Like i said do some research, I guarrantee you will find it most interesting.

You have not got a clue.

FYI, the broadcasting rights have been in discussion ever since they were last negotiated. Do you understand that? Not months..but years. They are the hottest deal in Australian television. There are bigger and more important issues that clash guernseys between the media outlets and the AFL. Maybe you should actually talk to some of the people involved in those actual discussions than make making fallacious statements that beggar basic common sense.

Your research is badly wasted but it clearly tickles an idle mind. Keep it up.

You have not got a clue.

FYI, the broadcasting rights have been in discussion ever since they were last negotiated. Do you understand that? Not months..but years. They are the hottest deal in Australian television. There are bigger and more important issues that clash guernseys between the media outlets and the AFL. Maybe you should actually talk to some of the people involved in those actual discussions than make making fallacious statements that beggar basic common sense.

Your research is badly wasted but it clearly tickles an idle mind. Keep it up.

I said these discussions have been going on for 2-3 years, and yes they are the hottest deal in town.

I work in TV RR, i have talked to people, i have also read a bit about it too.

I never said Clash Guernseys were the Hottest topic involved, but it is all part of the package the AFL wants to put forward.

Yes i will keep it up, i find Sport & Psychology very interesting, and very closely related.

So it is far from wasted-Thanks for the encouragement.

Yes i will keep it up, i find Sport & Psychology very interesting, and very closely related.

So it is far from wasted-Thanks for the encouragement.

Good for you WYL. Keep it up.

Dont let the snipers and bullies bother you. Its all about ego to them

Good for you WYL. Keep it up.

Dont let the snipers and bullies bother you. Its all about ego to them

Hey DC i know what i have researched and read, is actually close to the truth. If people want to dispute it fine, but the Facts are there, and the fact that White has been specified as the away colour (for most teams, and not all) makes it all very dodgy to me.

We will win in time.

I wouldn't ever expect to convince you RR, because you are infalable of course, but i can assure you that Months and months of marketing and Psychology has gone into the Broadcasting deals, Its no coincident that the Clash Jumper has become a hotter topic over the last 2-3 years.

Like i said do some research, I guarrantee you will find it most interesting.

Rhino, WYL makes sense with what he says about colours. I also know enough about TV, to think he is near the money shot, regarding TV rights and what goes on around them.

What gets me, is that whilst other clubs - particularly, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and the Saints can get away with just tweeking their jumpers, whilst we are forced into a radical re-design.

I hope the club is reading these comments and taking notice.

This is an important discussion and now, when we've all waited for so long for what is happening, both on and off the field to come about, is an ideal time to have such a discussion.

I was told on a club realtime board last week, by Matt Bergin (who is doing a great job in getting the MFC website away from the dull Big Pond template it had become), that he was waiting for the day of the "Invincible Whites". I don't think he meant it quite how it sounds. But to me it came across as an attempt to put a positive spin on something, that perhaps the club has so far not been able to do much about.

I guess as was said in an earlier post, (perhaps not in the same way) "success on field and in the bank, will give us power".

Go Dees!!!

Rhino, WYL makes sense with what he says about colours. I also know enough about TV, to think he is near the money shot, regarding TV rights and what goes on around them.

A question for BD and WYL

Its been said that TV stations are dictating (to a point) to the AFL over clash jumpers.

This I don't really understand. Games now are played on better grounds with better drainage, lighting etc. therefore players are not obscured by mud and overcast conditions. TV is now high definition digital and infinitely clearer than before. My eyesight is not what it was yet I have no real clash issues watching TV.

So, can you explain the TV stations point of view?

A question for BD and WYL

Its been said that TV stations are dictating (to a point) to the AFL over clash jumpers.

This I don't really understand. Games now are played on better grounds with better drainage, lighting etc. therefore players are not obscured by mud and overcast conditions. TV is now high definition digital and infinitely clearer than before. My eyesight is not what it was yet I have no real clash issues watching TV.

So, can you explain the TV stations point of view?

Daisy Cutter I cannot respond for WYL, but I would think TV opinion, would be only one factor in this - not the only factor.

For example, there is a valid point about colour clashes, for the players - just think back to our "pink" day. There was the obvious confusion at such a vital part of the game, because the umpires were also wearing pink.

The need to try and make one team and the officials as visually different from each other, as is possible, makes sense.

My point is, every consideration should be given to the tradition of all clubs - not just a few.

And to me, and I am sure many others, the Red and the Blue, is a vital part of that tradition.

To me the colours are just as important as the Demon...and that's coming back.

I would like to know, if it's all about wearing red and not white...

Why hasn't the yoke on the Swans jumper become bigger over time?

Why have Essendon not increased the size of the red sash on their jumper?

Why have collingwood so many supporters when their colours feature no red, but a lot of white?

Why have the tigers inundated with supporters in spite of being perennial losers and not featuring red on their jumpers?

I think there is some merit in what you are saying WYL, but the actual impact is minimal.

Winning will attract new members and our home colours will remain red & blue.

The away strip will hardly diminish support.

I think there is some merit in what you are saying WYL, but the actual impact is minimal.

Agree. But clubs now spend a fortune on trying to gain that 0.1% difference

I'm not convinced it does make a performance difference, but highly trained professional athletes can be such temperamental creatures that I wonder if.

Anyway, I'm not totally against a clash jumper of some sort, but only against those teams it can be shown to be a genuine clash (not as is now the case).

Heck, I wouldn't even mind if we had multiple clash jumpers designed by MFC specifically for the couple of teams we might genuinely clash with (without the predominant white). i.e. our home jumper, plus a couple of predominately red & blue by decreasing the clash colour/

OK, might not happen . . . . but . . .

Daisy Cutter I cannot respond for WYL, but I would think TV opinion, would be only one factor in this - not the only factor.

For example, there is a valid point about colour clashes, for the players - just think back to our "pink" day. There was the obvious confusion at such a vital part of the game, because the umpires were also wearing pink.

The need to try and make one team and the officials as visually different from each other, as is possible, makes sense.

My point is, every consideration should be given to the tradition of all clubs - not just a few.

And to me, and I am sure many others, the Red and the Blue, is a vital part of that tradition.

To me the colours are just as important as the Demon...and that's coming back.

Understand all that BD, I just thought you might have a better idea of TV's POV , if indeed they even have a strong opinion on this. Its just that others have suggested it was an issue for them

I would like to know, if it's all about wearing red and not white...

Why hasn't the yoke on the Swans jumper become bigger over time?

Why have Essendon not increased the size of the red sash on their jumper?

Why have collingwood so many supporters when their colours feature no red, but a lot of white?

Why have the tigers inundated with supporters in spite of being perennial losers and not featuring red on their jumpers?

I think there is some merit in what you are saying WYL, but the actual impact is minimal.

Winning will attract new members and our home colours will remain red & blue.

The away strip will hardly diminish support.

E25 I don't agree that the "white" factor is minimal, with regard to supporters.

I moved from Melbourne, to Sydney in 1990. In 1994, I moved to Hong Kong, before moving to the Middle East, in 1997. In 2000, I moved to Thailand and have been here since (my wife is Thai - otherwise, I'd be there every week -as I was before).

In all that time, I have continued, to both be a club member for most of those years, and an avid supporter, via TV, wherever I was.

Okay, I am not in Oz.

There are also, a lot of Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon supporters who, either don't go to the MCG, or Etihad and live in Melbourne, or like me, don't live in the same "pond", or have the chance to go to the games. The difference is, they know what "brand" they are getting.

What we have now is like being a VB drinker with great brand loyalty, but because the brewery don't deliver VB to our area, we are forced to drink that horrible "Blond" stuff, because the brewery think it's what we need.

Did they do research?

That's the question I would ask.

The answer is, probably not.

Should supporters who don't go to the MCG be considered here?

Most definitely say, YES.

This "brand recognition" matters.

It has contributed in a major way, to the strong clubs, such as I mentioned before.

It must contribute, in an equally strong way, to the OLDEST club in the competition.

The team of the Red and the Blue.

Go Dees !!

I'm sorry BD, but that is a rubbish argument.

Storm in a teacup.

I'm sorry BD, but that is a rubbish argument.

Storm in a teacup.

Tell me why supporting a "brand" is not important ?

I follow Melbourne - Demons.

The team of the RED & BLUE

1. Where's the argument ?

2. Why is it a storm in a teacup ?

I'm sorry BD, but that is a rubbish argument.

Storm in a teacup.

Ditto!

There's nothing we can do about the white on our jumpers until we start winning and making the AFL money. Until then, the real question should be "Do you like the design?" No-one seems interested in this question, they all want to talk about 'psychology' and 'marketing' without including a shred of evidence or data to support thier argument. Until they present facts, these points should now be considered 'ideas'. Kind of like saying, I have an 'idea', if I pull on my [censored] long and hard enough, it will get longer (I hope)!

You can all throw as many crappy conspiracy theories about the AFL and thier motives around as you please, I'm sure they're watching this forum in great fear that one of you is actually right! Until then, settle on the design, not the colours.

What we have now is like being a VB drinker with great brand loyalty, but because the brewery don't deliver VB to our area, we are forced to drink that horrible "Blond" stuff, because the brewery think it's what we need.

Did they do research?

That's the question I would ask.

The answer is, probably not.

Just because they didn't ask you doesn't mean they didn't do thier research. And I like blonde. Before two years ago, I would nevre drink Fosters, but now they have Pure Blonde, I'm all over it like Jordie McKenzie on Simon Black! Variations can provide as much appeal as the original, sometimes more.

Ditto!

There's nothing we can do about the white on our jumpers until we start winning and making the AFL money. Until then, the real question should be "Do you like the design?" No-one seems interested in this question, they all want to talk about 'psychology' and 'marketing' without including a shred of evidence or data to support thier argument. Until they present facts, these points should now be considered 'ideas'. Kind of like saying, I have an 'idea', if I pull on my [censored] long and hard enough, it will get longer (I hope)!

You can all throw as many crappy conspiracy theories about the AFL and thier motives around as you please, I'm sure they're watching this forum in great fear that one of you is actually right! Until then, settle on the design, not the colours.

There's nothing we can do about the white on our jumpers until we start winning and making the AFL money.

Think I said the same in my earlier post - so whilst there might not be a lot we can do about it until then, what's wrong with discussing it and putting it high on the "must do" list?

"Do you like the design?"

No I don't like it.

Was a poll or market research done ?

I don't know - do you ?

. . . Kind of like saying, I have an 'idea', if I pull on my [censored] long and hard enough, it will get longer (I hope)!

Haha! keep us posted on your progress pilgrim

Excuse me, gents.

I've just invented a time machine to travel from the pre-gold rush era, of which I have no knowledge yet, in a state not formed yet known as Victoria.

I played in team called Melbourne who invented this wonderful sport that seems to be talked about here.

But I have no knowledge of these 'Demons' you discuss, nor these colours of red and blue, but I am thankful that there is still a vestige of my 'Invincible Whites' in the guernsey the MFC wears in some away games.

Top stuff, embracing the roots like that...

i dont mind the white strip so much now that we've had a win wearing it!

Excuse me, gents.

I've just invented a time machine to travel from the pre-gold rush era, of which I have no knowledge yet, in a state not formed yet known as Victoria.

I played in team called Melbourne who invented this wonderful sport that seems to be talked about here.

But I have no knowledge of these 'Demons' you discuss, nor these colours of red and blue, but I am thankful that there is still a vestige of my 'Invincible Whites' in the guernsey the MFC wears in some away games.

Top stuff, embracing the roots like that...

OK, you're excused