LEADING FROM THE FRONT

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Power out is nearly as big a deal as Brown. Remember the Wonna game a couple of years ago? power tore us to pieces that day, and was BOG by a mile. Him out, and maybe Brown and Black underdone... that's huge. May see more omissions before Saturday.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Stef Martin might be a late change

agree with that

[Lost Highway 31]

Versatile and talented

Martin has kicked 8 in his last 2 VFL games,

he was good value down back in 2008 and 2009

a very quick player

and spent summer training as a ruck

I hope he comes in

I heard he was training as a forward! And then a ruck, and then a forward again...

Kicking 8 goals in 2 VFL matches is all well and good, but if you have a very even team that's won 2 in a row, why would you drop someone whose name you'd have to pull out of a hat just to put in a player who's shown he's not a bad pacy defender and merely has legit ruck height as the only other thing on his CV for this week. If he keeps kicking goals in the VFL he'll get his chance. I'd like to see that, but not this week.

[Lost Highway 31]

Bruce is the one to go mate, Stef runs rings around him

Well why hasn't he been picked?

Actually, I don't think he does run rings around him. He's shown he's a capable, fairly quick tall defender and has kicked a few in the VFL.

Bruce has not been superb, but he has shown he can tighten up his game and close down an opponent, even if his disposal sometimes lets him down. He has much more chance of taking out an opponent than Martin on Sat night.

[Lost Highway 31]

agree with that (ed. ie 'Martin might be a late change')

What, for Cordner or Wenzler?

If there's a late change, it'll rain.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Lost Highway

[premiershipvigil 10]

I heard he was training as a forward! And then a ruck, and then a forward again...

Kicking 8 goals in 2 VFL matches is all well and good, but if you have a very even team that's won 2 in a row, why would you drop someone whose name you'd have to pull out of a hat just to put in a player who's shown he's not a bad pacy defender and merely has legit ruck height as the only other thing on his CV for this week. If he keeps kicking goals in the VFL he'll get his chance. I'd like to see that, but not this week.

The main reason is because Bruce is not a good bad pacy defender and Martin is plus so much more.

mate, I have had enough of Bruce's mistakes and lack of impact, he cannot kick a goal from 30m out.

I am sick of players beating him forcing the FD to make a change because he is being out played and his softness with the way he does an emergency handball to anyone just kills me

Bruce was the weak link against Adelaide and nws 29 possessions against Richmond he just doesn't do it for me.

Because Martin is taller, quicker and has huge upside whereas perservering with Bruce feels like settling for second best rather than improving

Just my opinion I've read all the pro-Bruce comments over the last 4 weeks and believe the bad outweighs the good

Bruce is so far behind Martin

time to give him the week off, I used to rate Bruce but I'm over it and Martin deserves his chance

[Jaded No More 68,974]

I tend to agree with those who think Martin may come in as an emergency.

He probably will play if the weather holds up (if the ground if heavy and wet, we don't need another tall, and are better off going with a smaller, faster team).

No Power but Black is back. Crap.

[arossoukas 0]

Why change a winning formula?

Sure I agree with some that Bruce is questionable and Bate is unfit and Dunn is well I don't know what he is but the fact is if they play with the same intensity and apply the same pressure as they have in the past few weeks the scoreboard will speak for itself.

Personally I hope Brown does play because I would like to see our defence against true quality forwards and I am looking forward to seeing Frawley take Fevola

[d me 0]

Jonathan Brown made a statement to the media today, that he was definitely coming down to Melbourne this weekend. He said this with a cheeky grin on his face. I just watched the ad for the footy show tonight, and its looks like he is on the panel. So by making this statement, he is not lying. If he is sore (groin), why would Brisbane risk him, noting they have Sydney at SCG, the following week.

I am not drawing any conclusions, I'm just stating what I have seen and heard.

Also, Simon Black was in doubt, after coming off injury. He has been named. I am glad, because teams are not treating the Dees like Collingwood did. It's looks like Brisbane feel threatened, And if Browny, plays, he wont be 100%. He did hardly any training this morning!

Go BOYS!!! Keep up the tackles.

[Felix 92]

Good to see Gysberts pushing up into the emergencies. Looking forward to seeing why the recruiters rated him so highly

agree, maybe he is a few weeks away. Either way he is pushing for a spot in the 22. Good sign

[Nasher 33,617]

I don't know where these 'late change' ideas come from. Is anyone in the selected 22 suffering from a nagging niggle in the groin or someplace? An emergency list usually contains at least one tallish player and one running type to cover all possibilities, and I doubt Martin has been named just so Dunn or a small player can be dropped on a whim on Saturday night. And I mean whim, because there wasn't a real failure in the side last week and dropping someone from an even team that's won 2 in a row does not make any sense.

Agree on that. It seems to happen every week, people reckoning there's "going to be a late change" when there's no evidence at all to support it. I don't get it, it doesn't make sense. Teams do not just make late changes willy nilly. My money's on the team lining up as named. Again.

The 'no change' was as predictable as the sun rising. No player played a real bust game in a very good team win, and there's no automatic inclusions to come in to the side. Martin moves to the 'reserve' tall spot on the emergency list as a consolation prize for playing good footy in the VFL. It's fairly meaningless practically, but it's a token gesture to indicate he's moved ahead of Spencer in the eyes of the FD. Personally I hope he plays in the VFL again this week though. He's got some good momentum up as a ruckman-forward and it'd be a shame to waste that by having him sit out this round.

[Lost Highway 31]

The main reason is because Bruce is not a good bad pacy defender and Martin is plus so much more...

Because Martin is taller, quicker and has huge upside whereas perservering with Bruce feels like settling for second best rather than improving...

Bruce is so far behind Martin

But on what basis can one be sure that Martin is so good? He was a fair defender in a number of games last year. 'Huge upside' is such a vague concept; every player has an 'upside' of some sort. Being taller and quicker doesn't mean he's going to be a better bet than Bruce on Sat night. As I said earlier, 8 goals in a couple of VFL games also doesn't mean he's a monty for the side when it's playing well. Bruce is not setting the world on fire, but if there's a player there who is really under-performing I think it's Bate. I'd back Bruce to shut down an opponent ahead of Martin. If Martin continues playing well in VFL he'll get a guernsey soon enough; not all the current 22 are going to hold their form. And if Martin is to replace someone, which I don't think will happen, I'd sooner it was Bate.

[Lost Highway 31]

Agree on that. It seems to happen every week, people reckoning there's "going to be a late change" when there's no evidence at all to support it. I don't get it, it doesn't make sense. Teams do not just make late changes willy nilly. My money's on the team lining up as named. Again.

The 'no change' was as predictable as the sun rising. No player played a real bust game in a very good team win, and there's no automatic inclusions to come in to the side. Martin moves to the 'reserve' tall spot on the emergency list as a consolation prize for playing good footy in the VFL. It's fairly meaningless practically, but it's a token gesture to indicate he's moved ahead of Spencer in the eyes of the FD. Personally I hope he plays in the VFL again this week though. He's got some good momentum up as a ruckman-forward and it'd be a shame to waste that by having him sit out this round.

Spot on. Sometimes a player is named in the emergency list to keep his confidence and optimism up and/or to reward some good efforts in the VFL. The emergency list itself is a necessity imposed on clubs by dint of the fact that a late withdrawal for injury/illness reasons is often forced on a team after selection night. I don't recall a 'late change' in the Dees' line-up in the last few years which involved selectors dropping a player who had performed badly in previous matches yet had kept his spot, but whose name people were calling out for the drop on game day; those players are just dropped, plain and simple, and sent to Casey or whatever. Most of the 'late changes' seemed to involve players whom you wouldn't normally want to be out of the team.

'No change' to a team that's playing improved footy and has won 2 on the trot means exactly that - no change.

[Lost Highway 31]

I tend to agree with those who think Martin may come in as an emergency.

He probably will play if the weather holds up (if the ground if heavy and wet, we don't need another tall, and are better off going with a smaller, faster team).

No, he'll come in IN an emergency, unless Gysberts or Cheney are brought in ahead of him, of course. Or does that depend on the weather? I cannot recall any player being dropped at the last minute to make way for an emergency listed player simply because of the weather or state of the ground. In any case, there would have to be a massive, long-lasting downpour for the ground to become 'heavy', and my bet is that the selectors wouldn't be thinking it'll be anything but pretty dry and hard; if that is so, why haven't they named Martin in the 22? After all, if they had selected him and that deluge did occur, they could always tap him on the shoulder and say, 'Sorry Stef, but you can't play today because it's wet and the ground's heavy'.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Why does every thread turn in to a Bruce bashing exercise? Bruce does a tremendous amount of good work every week but that's ignored, most prefer to concentrate on the mistakes he makes. He has been and still is one of the best players we have and I'm sure the FD know that, just like they knew that giving Junior the captaincy again this year was the right thing to do.

[Deeoldfart 8,090]

................. Bruce has not been superb, but he has shown he can tighten up his game and close down an opponent, even if his disposal sometimes lets him down. He (Bruce) has much more chance of taking out an opponent than Martin on Sat night.

Agree. I reckon there's a fair chance he will match-up on Brennan, and I couldn't see Marto getting that assignment

[Vagg 2,449]

good to see cordner back in the team. we are a sure bet now!

Good call! Would be nice to see Don or Denis get a run. Alas, my mail says this particular Cordner is a bit of a sissy! LOL

[Spaghetti 264]

Where does Wenzler play? Listed at 172cm, 82kg. Could put him in the forward pocket to rove off the marking forwards.

[Lost Highway 31]

Why does every thread turn in to a Bruce bashing exercise?

That's what I'd like to know.

He makes errors, sure. Nevertheless, he knows how to shut down an opponent and gets plenty of the ball. Opposing teams would not have a low opinion of his abilities as a defender. So far, he's warranted his place in the team. There seem to be a lot of people far more forgiving of Bate, who has done barely enough in 4 games. Not that I would have dropped him this week, but he's done less than Bruce.

[Rogue 585]

Saying Dunn is lucky is pretty absurd unless you're prepared to say a couple of others are also 'lucky', namely Bate and Bruce. They didn't perform better than Dunn.

Even if you thought they played at around the same level as Dunn, I'd argue that both have more runs on the board than Dunn.

The 'no change' was as predictable as the sun rising. No player played a real bust game in a very good team win, and there's no automatic inclusions to come in to the side. Martin moves to the 'reserve' tall spot on the emergency list as a consolation prize for playing good footy in the VFL. It's fairly meaningless practically, but it's a token gesture to indicate he's moved ahead of Spencer in the eyes of the FD.

...and Newton.

[Lost Highway 31]

Even if you thought they played at around the same level as Dunn, I'd argue that both have more runs on the board than Dunn.

I wasn't suggesting any of them should be dropped, but last Sunday Dunn was possibly the best of the three. 'Runs on the board'? How far are you going back in time? The only runs on the board that really count for these blokes are the last couple of matches. Bate has hardly any in 4 matches. He's not that good a player that he can remain in the team on reputation alone; his reputation has not yet really been formed, if you ask me. Bruce, on the other hand, does have a reputation, but he's not performing up to it. Nevertheless, he's essential against Brisbane.

[Adam The God 30,542]

A couple of goals a game isn't good enough for you, Lost Highway? Bate's done his job and will generally get better as the season goes on.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

A couple of goals a game isn't good enough for you, Lost Highway? Bate's done his job and will generally get better as the season goes on.

Lost Highway is absolutely correct and I think Rogue knows this.

He made a very valid post.

If Dunn had been given the opportunity and belief that has been given to Bate then I'm sure they would be

on the same boat.

Neither of them are top AFL players.

And a couple of goals isn't good enough AdamFarr. Not when a couple of them are cheapies and we are playing the worst

team in the AFL by far and win by 50 odd points.

I expect more contested marks from Bate as that's about the only thing he should be able to do. Not cheap goals.

Get a grip.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Agree on that. It seems to happen every week, people reckoning there's "going to be a late change" when there's no evidence at all to support it. I don't get it, it doesn't make sense. Teams do not just make late changes willy nilly. My money's on the team lining up as named. Again.

The 'no change' was as predictable as the sun rising. No player played a real bust game in a very good team win, and there's no automatic inclusions to come in to the side. Martin moves to the 'reserve' tall spot on the emergency list as a consolation prize for playing good footy in the VFL. It's fairly meaningless practically, but it's a token gesture to indicate he's moved ahead of Spencer in the eyes of the FD. Personally I hope he plays in the VFL again this week though. He's got some good momentum up as a ruckman-forward and it'd be a shame to waste that by having him sit out this round.

which of these things is not true

1.the lack of a tall marking target i50 has been a huge concern all season

2.stef martin is such a player and is in form

3.there is always a good chance somebody in the 22 is NQR and needs to withdraw and they havent made it public

4.bringing in a matchup like stef when your opponent is not ready for it can be a nice little 'unsettler' for the opposing coach

That's where the idea is coming from

[Bobby McKenzie 2,401]

Bruce is the one to go mate, Stef runs rings around him

Ha,ha, very funny.