Newton V Martin

[dees189227 12,429]

I thought Newton's defensive tackling pressure in our foward line was pretty good yesterday and he tried hard but he has to kick more goals. Martin is someone with a bigger body who can take the centre ruck giving Jamar a break and he also kicked 3 goals for casey on the weekend. I think it's time to give Martin a go.

Thoughts?

[JACKATTACK 17]

I thought Newton was better than his 3 hitouts would suggest. Seems to have matured a little in terms of chasing and commitment. Does need to kick some goals though.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I thought Newton's defensive tackling pressure in our foward line was pretty good yesterday and he tried hard but he has to kick more goals. Martin is someone with a bigger body who can take the centre ruck giving Jamar a break and he also kicked 3 goals for casey on the weekend. I think it's time to give Martin a go.

Thoughts?

For the time being, I'd have both, after we have our best runners in the midfield, >

Two different players, both play Tall Forwards & strong marks. Both not in top form at all.

I'd like Martin to play CHF, as he's quick enough & mobile enough, but also can push up the ground as a marking target for our kickins.

I,d also like Newton on the Full Forwardline when we have the small forwards back, like Jetta & Wonna.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I think both can play against certain opposition and not against others.

If I had to pick I'd go for Martin ...

[dee-luded 2,959]

I thought Newton was better than his 3 hitouts would suggest. Seems to have matured a little in terms of chasing and commitment. Does need to kick some goals though.

I think he looks ready to break out, his own self doubt holding him down.

He needs to be persisted with. His poor kicking execution is related to his nervousness & self doubt.

He's a very skillfull kid. Needs to stop worrying.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think both can play against certain opposition and not against others.

If I had to pick I'd go for Martin ...

Your exactly right, thats why where playing one Ruck ATM, too help with our lack of running grunt with so many kids in.

I like what we're doing, but when we have Sylvia & Morton back, not to mention Jetta or even Strauss through the wings, we may be able to have the extra tall that we're missing at the moment.

Edited April 12, 2010 by dee-luded

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I am wary of giving anybody a go that cant kick goals.

Its hard enough to get the ball to a forward for them to then waste the opportunity. Neither Martin, Newton or Miller convince me that they can consistently convert the chances they get - Miller is probably the best within 40 metres.

I dont like the one and a half ruck option (the half being Newton or Martin) although we dont have too many options. When Jamar rests we lose a tall marking option forward who then returns to play forward after a work out on the ball - hence doesnt offer many leads.

I wont give Martin the job without a proper match report - 3 goals sounds good but they can be soft goals - can soemone give me a math report please?

Yesterday must have been tough for tall marking forwards - the wind, the Adelaide defensive structure (extras in defense) not to mention Bock and Rutten - big bodies and capable defenders - it was all a challenge.

I tried to get both Newton and Martin in - but with Sylvia and Rivers to come in I dont know how! Nice problem to have.

I would like to have two tall forwards - and assuming Gawn isnt an option (?) we could drop Dunne and Bruce but after that it gets very hard on yesterdays effort - maybe (dont scream - Scully? - 5 clangers still learning) - Bate possibly notwithstanding 3 goals - he is not foast enough or big enough and I dont know where he fits in in the longer term.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I am wary of giving anybody a go that cant kick goals.

Its hard enough to get the ball to a forward for them to then waste the opportunity. Neither Martin, Newton or Miller convince me that they can consistently convert the chances they get - Miller is probably the best within 40 metres.

I dont like the one and a half ruck option (the half being Newton or Martin) although we dont have too many options. When Jamar rests we lose a tall marking option forward who then returns to play forward after a work out on the ball - hence doesnt offer many leads.

I wont give Martin the job without a proper match report - 3 goals sounds good but they can be soft goals - can soemone give me a math report please?

Yesterday must have been tough for tall marking forwards - the wind, the Adelaide defensive structure (extras in defense) not to mention Bock and Rutten - big bodies and capable defenders - it was all a challenge.

I tried to get both Newton and Martin in - but with Sylvia and Rivers to come in I dont know how! Nice problem to have.

I would like to have two tall forwards - and assuming Gawn isnt an option (?) we could drop Dunne and Bruce but after that it gets very hard on yesterdays effort - maybe (dont scream - Scully? - 5 clangers still learning) - Bate possibly notwithstanding 3 goals - he is not foast enough or big enough and I dont know where he fits in in the longer term.

Gawn has just started to train - mid year. you speak of Gawn, yet can't have seen him play, yet want a report to decide if you want Martin in, whom you would have seen play?

Martin played well, but IMO, he's being taught to play as a tall forward & being let develop his forward play, he could come up, but that IMO would hinder his development.

Same with Watts.

No doubt one will come up in the next month. Martin is closer.

The other way is to bring in Spencer, or PJ when he's fit, to help Jamar who could in turn spend more time forward.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fair points Poseidon.

After 5 to 6 years, Newton and Miller have shown they are not up to it. If Martin has show decent form in the VFL then he must be a chance.

Newton has done little to suggest he is anymore likely than last year.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Gawn has just started to train - mid year. you speak of Gawn, yet can't have seen him play, yet want a report to decide if you want Martin in, whom you would have seen play?

Martin played well, but IMO, he's being taught to play as a tall forward & being let develop his forward play, he could come up, but that IMO would hinder his development.

Same with Watts.

No doubt one will come up in the next month. Martin is closer.

The other way is to bring in Spencer, or PJ when he's fit, to help Jamar who could in turn spend more time forward.

I saw Gawn play at Sandy near where I live.

I reado somewhere that he played byt not for casey ont he weekend so I accept that is a read herring.

Quoting the Sting report...

"Stefan Martin - tall forward who, apart from a brief stint in defence, played deep and he could easily have kicked six but for the fact that he was off target early. Martin moved well and provided a target and his goal just before half time when he baulked an opponent and kicked accurately at last was a gem."

Very tempting

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Gawn has just started to train - mid year. you speak of Gawn, yet can't have seen him play, yet want a report to decide if you want Martin in, whom you would have seen play?

Martin played well, but IMO, he's being taught to play as a tall forward & being let develop his forward play, he could come up, but that IMO would hinder his development.

Same with Watts.

No doubt one will come up in the next month. Martin is closer.

The other way is to bring in Spencer, or PJ when he's fit, to help Jamar who could in turn spend more time forward.

Re Spencer he played will against Geelong on the weekend. Richmond rucks are not good and I like two proper rucks but he do we drop for Spencer, Sylvia and Rivers? Gets hard...!

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

I saw Gawn play at Sandy near where I live.

I reado somewhere that he played byt not for casey ont he weekend so I accept that is a read herring.

Quoting the Sting report...

"Stefan Martin - tall forward who, apart from a brief stint in defence, played deep and he could easily have kicked six but for the fact that he was off target early. Martin moved well and provided a target and his goal just before half time when he baulked an opponent and kicked accurately at last was a gem."

Very tempting

So how many did he kick and how many did he miss??? Any report? Wish we had someone that could kick!!

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Newton will be playing on Sunday barring injury.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I saw Gawn play at Sandy near where I live.

I reado somewhere that he played byt not for casey ont he weekend so I accept that is a read herring.

Quoting the Sting report...

"Stefan Martin - tall forward who, apart from a brief stint in defence, played deep and he could easily have kicked six but for the fact that he was off target early. Martin moved well and provided a target and his goal just before half time when he baulked an opponent and kicked accurately at last was a gem."

Very tempting

Yes, very tempting. I wondered why Martin was not a regular in the team this season, & when I saw that he was playing as a forward @ Casey, most of the time, and the fact we have recruited Gawn & Fitzpatrick tells me we are in the process of our Talls handover. Add Miller to this list as well & it starts to show where we're at & where we're pointing.

Spencer is the immediate Ruck future & he's a good one.

So, I then understood that their taking their time with Martin, To teach, & for him to learn the art of Tall Forward play.

That's why, whilst we need him in the Melbourne side, I hope he stays at Casey to consolidate his forward play progress.

If we bring him in too soon, we could hinder his development as a Forward.

Either way, the good ol' Dees on on the move.

[Akum 2,660]

So how many did he kick and how many did he miss??? Any report? Wish we had someone that could kick!!

Stef was very good at FF where he played most of the night. The wind was a bit flukey & gusty early on (though it settled down as the game went on), and when it's like that, kicks from about 40m. or more get blown around a bit more than from closer in, unless you really kick through the ball. He was very lively, moved around and presented well, good in the air and on the ground, and certainly could have had 5 or 6.

Then again, Spencer was good too; he was much better around the ground than I thought him to be.

IMO I don't see that it's really necessary to rush either of them in against the Tiges, but we're bound to need one or other of them against Brisbane. Another week at Casey will do them both (not to mention JW) a lot of good, and will serve as an audition.

[Rogue 585]

I think we can play both Newton and Miller (edit: or Martin).

Newton has been criticised for his 'second efforts' at times but I think this is one area where he's been pretty good lately.

While I don't think our forward structure is particularly helpful for a player of his type, he needs to hold his marks and make sure he finishes well when he has the chance.

[jnrmac 20,189]

Nil contendo - no contest.

Stef for me.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,097]

Stef is the future, but I agree that he will be better served learning the game at Casey than being rushed into the senior side before he's ready and being thrashed. Let him get to the point where he can kick a bag of five or six and see what that sort of confidence does for his game in the seniors.

As for Newton, he is beginning to look like a guy who is playing for his career, and that is a good thing. Keep him in for now and let him show us all how much he wants to be an AFL footballer. He clearly knows that he's on his last chance and there are a pack of promising young players coming up to put pressure on him. I've been impressed with his effort if not always his execution.

[H_T 3,049]

While I don't think our forward structure is particularly helpful for a player of his type, he needs to hold his marks and make sure he finishes well when he has the chance.

Yes. The pre-requisites for a KPF position(s) in Melbourne's future forward line: -

1/ Needs to hold marks

2/ Needs to finish well (kick goals)

3/ Needs to put pressure on (defensively) and harrass when team is not in possession of the ball to pressure a turnover.

At the moment 1/3 for me....at best (I think I am being generous as the "1" is questionnable for some). Tick Tick Tick...

[Akum 2,660]

Stef is the future, but I agree that he will be better served learning the game at Casey than being rushed into the senior side before he's ready and being thrashed. Let him get to the point where he can kick a bag of five or six and see what that sort of confidence does for his game in the seniors.

As for Newton, he is beginning to look like a guy who is playing for his career, and that is a good thing. Keep him in for now and let him show us all how much he wants to be an AFL footballer. He clearly knows that he's on his last chance and there are a pack of promising young players coming up to put pressure on him. I've been impressed with his effort if not always his execution.

Agree on all points.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Newton gives you glimpses of something during the games and then he can be a total spanner a few minutes later. He takes the oppositions best backman so life won't be easy for him but he looked better this week than he did the week before. He must learn to watch what's ahead of him as he will sometimes crunch the pack including his own players. There was a perfect opportunity on Sunday where a Melbourne player would probably have taken the mark close to goal but he crashed in to him and they both missed it.

If he improves and his confidence grows he may be ok, he has the size for it and is a lot quicker than you think. He just need to control his desire to take mark of the match each week and learn that a mark out in front of you is safer and usually more productive.

[Weedster 174]

I thought Newton's defensive tackling pressure in our foward line was pretty good yesterday and he tried hard but he has to kick more goals. Martin is someone with a bigger body who can take the centre ruck giving Jamar a break and he also kicked 3 goals for casey on the weekend. I think it's time to give Martin a go.

Thoughts?

Martin by the length of the straight - I thought Newton's game was poor - no presence, can't hold a mark..no thanks

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think we can play both Newton and Miller

Who would you change Miller for, possibly Dunn?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yes. The pre-requisites for a KPF position(s) in Melbourne's future forward line: -

1/ Needs to hold marks

2/ Needs to finish well (kick goals)

3/ Needs to put pressure on (defensively) and harrass when team is not in possession of the ball to pressure a turnover.

At the moment 1/3 for me....at best (I think I am being generous as the "1" is questionnable for some). Tick Tick Tick...

Jack Watts we await your return.

[Rogue 585]

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