No by you it seems.

This list is younger than MFC lists of the past three years. Its far younger than any other list in the competition.

Bailey has said continuously its about getting at least 50 games into young players.

Your expectation that this year is not about development is naive. We would all like more wins on the board. But it may, may not be the case. And if injuries mount like they are to key players then MFC are going have a set back.

Its not about "Righto boys you have had your year of development, now go out and win some games".

You say you understand the issue of PATIENCE but your point of view does not reflect it.

If you read my post properly I stated every year is one of development/ continous improvement.Bailey has stated (openly at the AGM) that he would like to see the team improve by 15 points as per Roost it's explanation in his post.This then would turn our wins to 7 based on last years performance. However other teams may have improved more than us.

Bailey has stated (openly at the AGM) that he would like to see the team improve by 15 points as per Roost it's explanation in his post.This then would turn our wins to 7 based on last years performance. However other teams may have improved more than us.

Therein lies the answer to the 2010 season How much have we the MFC improved v How much has opposition sides improved. Which is why we do not have to finish on or near the bottom as the Media seem to have pidgeon holed us for the year, to say nothing of the Sportsbet odds!!!

If we as a team have made genuine improvement we will win more games than many around here think is possible, regardless of age or experience...Who told Cyril Rioli to play a blinder in the 2008 GF??? Answer...... he did.

Few of our guys get a little confidence up in the early weeks, the MFC could ruin the Bookies Pockets. It's up to the players

I heard Ju$$ on the wireless this morning, what he said was right....."Making excuses for age or experience is an easy way out for clubs to not give their best. Every player who plays Round 1 this year is an adult, who can play the game"

I think that statement applies to the MFC as well.

Therein lies the answer to the 2010 season How much have we the MFC improved v How much has opposition sides improved. Which is why we do not have to finish on or near the bottom as the Media seem to have pidgeon holed us for the year, to say nothing of the Sportsbet odds!!!

If we as a team have made genuine improvement we will win more games than many around here think is possible, regardless of age or experience...Who told Cyril Rioli to play a blinder in the 2008 GF??? Answer...... he did.

Few of our guys get a little confidence up in the early weeks, the MFC could ruin the Bookies Pockets. It's up to the players

I heard Ju$$ on the wireless this morning, what he said was right....."Making excuses for age or experience is an easy way out for clubs to not give their best. Every player who plays Round 1 this year is an adult, who can play the game"

I think that statement applies to the MFC as well.

And yes- they have to believe in themselves.If they could win first up wll give them, the club and supporters great monmentum forward-- and that is what we need.

And yes- they have to believe in themselves.If they could win first up wll give them, the club and supporters great monmentum forward-- and that is what we need.

Belief will only get you so far.

There are a lot of other factors that determine success of any sort on a football field.

Experience is one of them.

If you read my post properly I stated every year is one of development/ continous improvement.Bailey has stated (openly at the AGM) that he would like to see the team improve by 15 points as per Roost it's explanation in his post.This then would turn our wins to 7 based on last years performance. However other teams may have improved more than us.

I did.

You stated every year is development/continuous improvement. And then said we should be striving for success this year? Whats different?

I already told you that list is younger this year than last year and the year before that. What thats telling you? Hmmmm.

In addition, there is the issue of injuries and the fact that other teams are at a different stage in the cycle. I would expect there will still be a number of teams that will improve more than us as their core is 2 to 4 years older than ours.

Your basis of assessment is simplistic and ignores some of the key issues.

I heard Ju$$ on the wireless this morning, what he said was right....."Making excuses for age or experience is an easy way out for clubs to not give their best. Every player who plays Round 1 this year is an adult, who can play the game"

I think that statement applies to the MFC as well.

You do miss alot dont you?

You do miss alot dont you?

why do you say that??

Nothing wrong with setting high standards RR, i bet nobody at this time of year picked essendon to win the flag in '93 either,

not expecting a flag this year but i expect the team to perform better than what the media scribes have locked us into.

Edited March 19, 201015 yr by why you little

What a terrific initiative from Schwabby and the club.

I think this is a sensational idea because:

• It further personalises supporters relationship with the club
  
• It's a great way of communicating the vision with the members
  
• For footy tragics like me, it's just another side of the game / club we get to see, improving my enjoyment of the game
  
• It showed me that the club direction is built around many of the things I value about being an MFC member
  
• Highlights the passion and understanding of what the club is about by the people responsible for running it
  
• Reminds us that while week to week things can get frustrating (losses, injuries etc) there is a sound plan in place taking the club forward
  

We have very good people in charge of the club at present........let's give them the time and support they need to deliver!

why do you say that??

RR said.....

You do miss alot don't you ?

because: -

It's like going to a construction site every day and screaming at the bricklayer about the living room not being ready. Progression is a gradual process over a period of time. You're not going to show up on Saturday week and all of a sudden all our problems have gone away and we're playing great football. You have to learn to look for the positive passages of play where things do work as signs of progression rather than see a mistake and turnover as a sign of regression.

Now what did Cam Schwab say about Patience and rebuilding?

In spite of the fact there were few senior players on the field during the meaningless practice matches, haven't we already established long ago that our more senior players as a collective are just not up to it?

Isn't that why we started rebuilding in the first place?

Things will change when all of our young promising players become the more senior players in the side.

Not before.

This list is younger than MFC lists of the past three years. Its far younger than any other list in the competition.

Bailey has said continuously its about getting at least 50 games into young players.

Your expectation that this year is not about development is naive. We would all like more wins on the board. But it may, may not be the case. And if injuries mount like they are to key players then MFC are going have a set back.

Its not about "Righto boys you have had your year of development, now go out and win some games".

You say you understand the issue of PATIENCE but your point of view does not reflect it.

Does that answer your question ?

Does that answer your question ?

not entirely. i am well aware of the Stats and the so called facts, but i say with the right attitude some of those laws can be broken, call me an optimist.

When i was born the docs only gave me about 3 days to live. 46 years later i am doing fine so i don't always believe everything i see and hear. :) Go Demons

I did.

You stated every year is development/continuous improvement. And then said we should be striving for success this year? Whats different?

I already told you that list is younger this year than last year and the year before that. What thats telling you? Hmmmm.

In addition, there is the issue of injuries and the fact that other teams are at a different stage in the cycle. I would expect there will still be a number of teams that will improve more than us as their core is 2 to 4 years older than ours.

Your basis of assessment is simplistic and ignores some of the key issues.

You will argue for the sake of arguing but you are dead set wrong.Success and development are two different aspects.We are more experienced than last year and more developed than the start of the 2009 season.Actually we are the second youngest team in the comp.Last year as I stated we had several injuries as well- Jamar,Spencer,Wonaeamirri, Garland, Buckley are some that come to my mind.We are definately in a different stage in the cycle- upwards from last year. We have gained 5 new recruits- two of the first picks- that alone should improve us along with a given- another year into Watts. Blease & Strauss hopefully will play games. Our list has definately improved from last year. We also sent Bailey, Schwab et.. overseas looking at development etc.. so this should also help a little. We only need a little as I explained earlier to win at least 7 games.

Edited March 20, 201015 yr by jayceebee31

You will argue for the sake of arguing but you are dead set wrong.Success and development are two different aspects.We are more experienced than last year and more developed than the start of the 2009 season.Actually we are the second youngest team in the comp.Last year as I stated we had several injuries as well- Jamar,Spencer,Wonaeamirri, Garland, Buckley are some that come to my mind.We are definately in a different stage in the cycle- upwards from last year. We have gained 5 new recruits- two of the first picks- that alone should improve us along with a given- another year into Watts. Blease & Strauss hopefully will play games. Our list has definately improved from last year. We also sent Bailey, Schwab et.. overseas looking at development etc.. so this should also help a little. We only need a little as I explained earlier to win at least 7 games.

I don't think you understand what you are talking about.

What exactly do you mean by "developed"?

We are definitely not more experienced than last year, after losing Whelan, Wheatley and Robertson for a start.

Some players might have more individual experience than they had at the beginning of last year, but as a club we are less experienced.

And that counts for a lot.

You will argue for the sake of arguing but you are dead set wrong.Success and development are two different aspects.We are more experienced than last year and more developed than the start of the 2009 season.Actually we are the second youngest team in the comp.Last year as I stated we had several injuries as well- Jamar,Spencer,Wonaeamirri, Garland, Buckley are some that come to my mind.We are definately in a different stage in the cycle- upwards from last year. We have gained 5 new recruits- two of the first picks- that alone should improve us along with a given- another year into Watts. Blease & Strauss hopefully will play games. Our list has definately improved from last year. We also sent Bailey, Schwab et.. overseas looking at development etc.. so this should also help a little. We only need a little as I explained earlier to win at least 7 games.

lmfao............some people struggle to understand football, even when it has been explained to them by the club as a whole, they must laugh as some of the stuff written here.

You will argue for the sake of arguing but you are dead set wrong.Success and development are two different aspects.We are more experienced than last year and more developed than the start of the 2009 season.Actually we are the second youngest team in the comp.Last year as I stated we had several injuries as well- Jamar,Spencer,Wonaeamirri, Garland, Buckley are some that come to my mind.We are definately in a different stage in the cycle- upwards from last year. We have gained 5 new recruits- two of the first picks- that alone should improve us along with a given- another year into Watts. Blease & Strauss hopefully will play games. Our list has definately improved from last year. We also sent Bailey, Schwab et.. overseas looking at development etc.. so this should also help a little. We only need a little as I explained earlier to win at least 7 games.

Once again JCB your grasp of the issues is frail. Success and development are very much intertwined. Either you understand the message that the Club is sending out or you dont. At the end of last year we pensioned off/ delisted/retired, Robbo, Whelan, Wheatley. That near 450 to 500 games of experience. In addition we traded McLean (94 games) and delisted a number of fringe players who probably totalled 40 games. Sorry I dont have the eact numbers. We have picked up MacDonald 83 games. So we have taken just over 500 games of AFL experience of our list.

So while some of the players are a year older the whole list is younger. And Scully and Trengove, as talented as they are not "plug in and play". They will do some good things in their first year but they are defintitely learning. We still have to get games into Watts. Blease and Strauss are essentially first year players given their injuries. Spencer too is raw but likely to get significant game time.

Unfortunately the stage of the cycle you may be in is different to the cycle the Club is in. This may explain you inability to properly grasp the message of PATIENCE. Even your overreaction to the Freo game should have set even distant bells ringing.....

Once again JCB your grasp of the issues is frail. Success and development are very much intertwined. Either you understand the message that the Club is sending out or you dont. At the end of last year we pensioned off/ delisted/retired, Robbo, Whelan, Wheatley. That near 450 to 500 games of experience. In addition we traded McLean (94 games) and delisted a number of fringe players who probably totalled 40 games. Sorry I dont have the eact numbers. We have picked up MacDonald 83 games. So we have taken just over 500 games of AFL experience of our list.

So while some of the players are a year older the whole list is younger. And Scully and Trengove, as talented as they are not "plug in and play". They will do some good things in their first year but they are defintitely learning. We still have to get games into Watts. Blease and Strauss are essentially first year players given their injuries. Spencer too is raw but likely to get significant game time.

Unfortunately the stage of the cycle you may be in is different to the cycle the Club is in. This may explain you inability to properly grasp the message of PATIENCE. Even your overreaction to the Freo game should have set even distant bells ringing.....

an attainment that is successful is my definition of success- such as we through so called development of players we reached our goal of reaching only 4 wins. Some say,and Iagree -that we tanked- therfore did not try on our merits.This is what Bailey stated he was doing- developing players buy developing them in different positions- such as Johnson in the back pocket- Warnock at centre half forward-therefore my definition of development in this sense is the act of improving by expanding the individual and the team.Yes at the end of the year they culled-Robbo, Whelan, Wheatley -whom the whole 3 only played a handful of games ,where several others such as Morton played 20 odd, Bennell played 16 odd, Cheney played 12,Jetta played 12, Spencer played several matches. It was the year that the MFC played several players and they got match practise.To me that is development.Experioenced players are worthless if they cannot get a game and are not worthy to be held.I think you just argue for the sake of it- you just do not hgave a grasp on the MFC itself.

I don't think you understand what you are talking about.

What exactly do you mean by "developed"?

We are definitely not more experienced than last year, after losing Whelan, Wheatley and Robertson for a start.

Some players might have more individual experience than they had at the beginning of last year, but as a club we are less experienced.

And that counts for a lot.

You are just purely rude and ignorant.We have more players that have had more match practise from playing in 2009.Whilst we lost Robbo,Whelan & Wheatley they hardly played a game last year. Therefore, their experienced counted for virtually zero.Your understanding of football and its development is basically zero.

Wait until after the first 5 games at the G this year, don't use practise match form as a guide. It is not and has never been reliable.

And after the 5 games, don't use the Ladder as a guide, but rather how we're using the football, in context with who the personnel is we're referring to.

I am [censored] off that the young blokes we have recruited in the last three years aren't playing like seasoned veterans.

2007 - Cale Morton Jack Grimes Addam Maric Kyle Cheney Tom McNamara Stefan Martin

Trent Zomer Austin Wonaeamirri Jake Spencer Shane Valenti

2008 - Jack Watts Sam Blease James Strauss Jamie Bennell Neville Jetta Rohan Bail Liam Jurrah

Jordie McKenzie Rhys Healey Danny Hughes

2009 - Tom Scully Jack Trengove Jordan Gysberts Luke Tapscott Max Gawn Jack Fitzpatrick Joel Macdonald Michael Newton John Meesen

The sky is falling!

2007 - Cale Morton Jack Grimes Addam Maric Kyle Cheney Tom McNamara Stefan Martin

Trent Zomer Austin Wonaeamirri Jake Spencer Shane Valenti

2008 - Jack Watts Sam Blease James Strauss Jamie Bennell Neville Jetta Rohan Bail Liam Jurrah

Jordie McKenzie Rhys Healey Danny Hughes

2009 - Tom Scully Jack Trengove Jordan Gysberts Luke Tapscott Max Gawn Jack Fitzpatrick Joel Macdonald Michael Newton John Meesen

There are only a hand full of those players that I do not think will become regular Senior players but the rest are/will be GREAT DEMONS. The club is heading in the right direction... (draft wise)

The Whiteboard Wednesdays idea is good because it helps everyone get onto the same page, but I appreciate it best because it is a little gesture from the club saying 'we value the die-hards who would actually seek this out'.

As for expectations for the season to come maybe it should be expressed in percentage...

2008 62%

2009 75%

Should we ask for 88% in 2010?

And for players... maybe we need some benchmarks?

Will Jack Watts be around Kurt Tippet's level after 40ish games? Or Josh Kennedy?

Will Jack Trengove reach Bryce Gibbs current level, by 60+ games?

Does anyone doubt Grimes will surpass Marc Murphy's benchmark at 80 games? I don't.

Can Gysberts match Bernie Vince, at 50+ games and 24 years old? That's six years to go.

Four seasons from now, will Petterd be as handy as Knights or Van Berlo at Adelaide now?

This time next season, won't Rhys Palmer look like a poor mans Tom Scully?

Strauss v Andrew Swallow at 60 games?

I can't even find a current 'somewhat experienced' player to compare Frawley to. Zac Clarke?

Will Tapscott long term end up being our Josh Hunt?

On the one hand, there's no reason to think that a lot of these comparisons and more are going to come out in our favour or at a fair balance.

On the other hand, I'm putting them up to highlight just how great a difference there is between a 'first ten games' type and a 50-80 games player, and that we really just need to all grit our teeth and carry on.

an attainment that is successful is my definition of success- such as we through so called development of players we reached our goal of reaching only 4 wins. Some say,and Iagree -that we tanked- therfore did not try on our merits.This is what Bailey stated he was doing- developing players buy developing them in different positions- such as Johnson in the back pocket- Warnock at centre half forward-therefore my definition of development in this sense is the act of improving by expanding the individual and the team.Yes at the end of the year they culled-Robbo, Whelan, Wheatley -whom the whole 3 only played a handful of games ,where several others such as Morton played 20 odd, Bennell played 16 odd, Cheney played 12,Jetta played 12, Spencer played several matches. It was the year that the MFC played several players and they got match practise.To me that is development.Experioenced players are worthless if they cannot get a game and are not worthy to be held.I think you just argue for the sake of it- you just do not hgave a grasp on the MFC itself.

As always its your definition of success and your definition of development. Life is wonderful in the test tube isnt it. FWIW, you have pinned "your" success on so called experienced players who have played no more than 20 games and you have lauded two players (Scully and Trengove) who have yet to play a game.

I note you have not addressed the impact of trading arguably our leading midfielder (in an ordinary midfield) in Mclean. Thats a strong mature and experienced body with 6 years AFL experience out of the engine room. Of course it does not suit your defintion.

I have put a plausible case supported by demonstrable evidence. You have crawled under a stone and said it does not suit "your" myopic view.

I sorry I dont have your grasp on the MFC. It seems to be an intensely personal one.

As always its your definition of success and your definition of development. Life is wonderful in the test tube isnt it. FWIW, you have pinned "your" success on so called experienced players who have played no more than 20 games and you have lauded two players (Scully and Trengove) who have yet to play a game.

I note you have not addressed the impact of trading arguably our leading midfielder (in an ordinary midfield) in Mclean. Thats a strong mature and experienced body with 6 years AFL experience out of the engine room. Of course it does not suit your defintion.

I have put a plausible case supported by demonstrable evidence. You have crawled under a stone and said it does not suit "your" myopic view.

I sorry I dont have your grasp on the MFC. It seems to be an intensely personal one.

Rhino, save your breath, waste of time!!!

Rhino, save your breath, waste of time!!!

Just maybe -Schwabb may need to give this Wednesday a miss and have a chat to the football department about it's first pathetic result-