Forward Thinking

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

BB59 - I am absolutley astounded that Bate isn't in your first choice forward line.

The presence of Green in the forward line is a prognostication of mine (I believe well educated), but the fact that Bate was our best forward in 2009 is a righteous fact above all argument to the contrary.

He will be a starting HFF or CHF in 2010, of that I have no doubt. 24 goals and 26 assists were his returns, second in both to Robertson and Davey respectively.

He is a very good player.

I agree Matty Bate worked his ring off in 2009 with limited support.

He will benefit greatly from an improved Midfield.

[The Big Ticket 94]

BB59 - I am absolutley astounded that Bate isn't in your first choice forward line.

The presence of Green in the forward line is a prognostication of mine (I believe well educated), but the fact that Bate was our best forward in 2009 is a righteous fact above all argument to the contrary.

He will be a starting HFF or CHF in 2010, of that I have no doubt. 24 goals and 26 assists were his returns, second in both to Robertson and Davey respectively.

He is a very good player.

Agreed. Definitely in the top 5 best players. A gem of Daniher's.

I don't like the idea of Watts starting down back next season. Just chuck him in the deep end already and see what he can do. He's a number 1 draft pick FFS and I expect a lot from him.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

BB59 - I am absolutley astounded that Bate isn't in your first choice forward line.

He's definately on something. First he wants us to pick up Maguire and now he wants Miller as the main forward. If Miller gets a game ahead of Watts then I'm gonna be [censored]. 8 years of failures by Miller should tell people that he is seriously not up to it but obviously not according to the poll.

Not sure if Aussie is a certainty not being the fittest guy and having most of the year off with injury. I would say that Petterd is ahead of him with Jetta not too far behind.

[beelzebub 23,348]

BB59 - I am absolutley astounded that Bate isn't in your first choice forward line.

The presence of Green in the forward line is a prognostication of mine (I believe well educated), but the fact that Bate was our best forward in 2009 is a righteous fact above all argument to the contrary.

He will be a starting HFF or CHF in 2010, of that I have no doubt. 24 goals and 26 assists were his returns, second in both to Robertson and Davey respectively.

He is a very good player.

let me get this clear...youre putting Green up front..and you call me out ??

No Bate isnt my first choice to start the year at FF. Id probably run him along the wing. Miller aparently has to go somewhere ( that seems to be Baileys/FD thinking ) otherwise why is he there.

Watts is supposed to be a KPP thats either FF or CHF. So if Bate ?Watts FF/CHF or vice versa..where fore art thou Miller ?

Bate CAN play further up the ground..Miler is lost. If Miller not on the park then Bate at CHF..If he is then on the wing.

The year will evolve...people will get injured..its not set in stone

Suggest you contain your amazement and consider your own follies

[Deemolish 0]

Green isnt a forward

In a side where people will be tripping over each other to get into the midfield, why wouldn't you play Green in the forward line? Great kick and good set of hands.

In regards to Watts, I was encouraged by what we say this year. In the 3 games he played, we lost by about 10 goals each time. Yet he still managed to kick a handful of goals. He has a good awareness and once he gets a frame will be a good player. Petterd has shown enough when he kicks those 3-4 bags a couple of times a season. Watts and Petterd for me.

The jury is still out for me with Bate. I can't understand why everyone considers him a walk up start. I put him ahead of Newton and Miller only because he can kick straight(er).

[beelzebub 23,348]

In a side where people will be tripping over each other to get into the midfield, why wouldn't you play Green in the forward line? Great kick and good set of hands.

because he isnt a real forward.. hes not big enough... if he starts out of the square he will be out muscled ( and has been ) if hes not going to play as a KPp then why bother in the forward line...unless as a flanker with licence to go whereever he likes.

Has more value along a wing or across the half back as an extra floater

[rpfc 28,384]

let me get this clear...youre putting Green up front..and you call me out ??

No Bate isnt my first choice to start the year at FF. Id probably run him along the wing. Miller aparently has to go somewhere ( that seems to be Baileys/FD thinking ) otherwise why is he there.

Watts is supposed to be a KPP thats either FF or CHF. So if Bate ?Watts FF/CHF or vice versa..where fore art thou Miller ?

Bate CAN play further up the ground..Miler is lost. If Miller not on the park then Bate at CHF..If he is then on the wing.

The year will evolve...people will get injured..its not set in stone

Suggest you contain your amazement and consider your own follies

I believe Green can end his career the way his started it - as an effective lead-up forward.

We will see whether those in charge agree...

I know Matthew Bate will spend the majority of his time on a forward flank, or at CHF. Miller will most likely be CHF at the start of the year, but Bate should be in the same forward line. Miller's form will dictate whether Bate is required at CHF.

Bate will push into the midfield from time to time but only to give a breather to our wingman - Davey and Morton - who will float forward.

But why start Bate there? Will he not get in the way of all our young mids and their development?

We all know Bate can play forward; he should play most of his time there and Scully, Trengove, Maric, and Blease should get as much exposure in the middle as we can afford.

Don't add Bate to the list of mids is what I would say.

[The Big Ticket 94]

In a side where people will be tripping over each other to get into the midfield, why wouldn't you play Green in the forward line? Great kick and good set of hands.

In regards to Watts, I was encouraged by what we say this year. In the 3 games he played, we lost by about 10 goals each time. Yet he still managed to kick a handful of goals. He has a good awareness and once he gets a frame will be a good player. Petterd has shown enough when he kicks those 3-4 bags a couple of times a season. Watts and Petterd for me.

The jury is still out for me with Bate. I can't understand why everyone considers him a walk up start. I put him ahead of Newton and Miller only because he can kick straight(er).

I can't understand why you don't consider Bate a walk up start. 27 goals, 114 marks. Played in the midfield and on the wing a lot this year. He's one of our best players.

[H_T 3,043]

I went Watts and Petterd for Round 1. Could have included Miller, but I prefer to start Bate up forward courtesy of his form in front of (& around) goal. I see Jetta as more half forward / mid rotation, and Maric I couldn't find a spot for him in Round 1. No other particular reason.

I selected Green to play predominantly up forward. Because we have plenty of mids (young & experienced) that can fill that role.

I don't believe Newton is part of our top 22. That is not to say he won't be selected at all in 2010 season to prove himself.

Edited October 30, 2009 by High Tower

[rpfc 28,384]

The jury is still out for me with Bate. I can't understand why everyone considers him a walk up start. I put him ahead of Newton and Miller only because he can kick straight(er).

Betraying your footy IQ there.

[beelzebub 23,348]

I believe Green can end his career the way his started it - as an effective lead-up forward.

Don't add Bate to the list of mids is what I would say.

Green has all the attributes for a good forward save one thing...size..imho. Has the nouse, has the kicking and marking but would just ( and has been ) monstered by matchups not in his favour.

I do kind of like him as a flanker,,, but I just think his abilities are better used elsewhere. He can play all over..not all players can. He is good at reading play and for mine has often saved a play floating as the extra man across the half back.

Bate..I would really like to see Bate develop as a CHF.. has a lot more to offer than Frosty there except whilst ol Miller will always put in 100% for various returns , Bate can be a bit hot and cold. having said that he does seem to be settling.

So do you use Matty as CHF and put Miller down back somewhere as a stop gap ?

I dont nor ever do see Bate as a mid-mid..more a classic winger if not forward. I think his kick is wasted at FF. He can do what Miller cant.. bomb it deep.. with the likes of Watts, Jurrah , Maric and Wonna ready to pounce there is some bite

[Deemolish 0]

Betraying your footy IQ there.

All I am saying is that I can't remember (I think there was maybe one game), Bate winning a game off his boot. Don't get me wrong, I agree he is settling and shows great promise to be a game winner. Good sized body and as someone else said, knows how to bomb it long for the smalls. Miller is great at taking marks, running backwards for 20-30m by which time everyone has been covered by their respective opponent.

Bate simply needs to take the next step otherwise I worry he will be just a so-so player and will be overtaken by our younger developing players. That is all.

[rpfc 28,384]

I don't think Bate is quick enough to make it as a winger.

And as far as I'm concerned - wingers are mids.

I know what are you are saying about 'mid-mids' (ruck-rovers, rovers, and centres as opposed to wingmen) but they are so interchangeable and homogeneous today - they are all just link players across the middle.

The only player to play a traditional 'wing' recently is Richo in 08.

[The Great One 99 125]

Maybe he will not be good enough, but the poll says should Newton be considered. I would think that if any player is on our list, then he should be considered. Otherwise why is he on our list? Maybe be will tear Casey apart and force the club to consider him. Probably not, but you never know.

[B20 0]

Watts Miller Bate

Petterd Jurrah Wonnaeamirri

This is our most dangerous forward structure and the one we should go with from round 1. A really good mix of youth & experience, talls & smalls with plenty of x factor. I have my doubts about Jack Watts but at this stage having Miller as his foil won't do him any harm. The Jurrah/Petterd combo deep in the forward line works. Neither are traditional FF's but both are good overhead and at ground level and most teams will struggle to keep both of them quiet. Wonaeamirri as the typical FP to pick up the leftovers from an aerially dominant forward structure. And he's not too shabby in the air either. Looks dangerous to me.

[torpedo 33]

I voted Miller & Watts. Bailey will want to play Watts as much as possible and Miller is our best option at CHF.

I am suprised some people think Jack may play CHF next year, I don't see how that will be possible at this stage of his development, I think its more likely he'll he spend some time, if not play a regular role, on the wing while he finds his feet.

Petterd kept doing enough to hold a spot in the forward line last year, I can't see where he fits in if all those players listed are available though.

Maric & Jetta are interesting. I cant see them fitting in if Wonna is playing at the same level he was in 2008, thats cetainly not a given though. Jurrah does a lot of the things small forwards do also and I think that will impact on small forward selections. I am not banking on Maric to making it to be honest, I haven't been particularly impressed with his efforts to date, he is only young though and its certainly not a criticism, I just don't hold any expectations. I love Jetta's grunt and would love to see him find a place in the team, better players keep him out at the moment though.

I think its likely we'll see Sylvia playing in the midfield a lot more next year given he will be coming off an even stronger fitness base in 2010. His goal kicking is one of his great strengths but I've noticed that he kicks a lot of his goals when he is playing in the midfield anyway. I'd expect to see Trengove playing forward next year while he builds his engine and from all reports he is AFL-ready, be great to see Sylvia finally graduate to a full time midfielder and Trengove cut his teeth playing his forward flank / rotating midfielder role

I believe if Miller is to play it is because his form warrants it, I do not want to see the MFC give people games because another player is too weak to stand on their own two feet.

I don't think its as simple as playing him to protect others, you need at least one big bodied marking forward as part of your forward line structure and Miller is our best option at the moment, Watts is still some time away yet. Bailey did drop him last year but I think Miller would still be very much a part of our 2010 forward line planning. I agree that he must maintain form to hold his spot, I think you measure form a bit differently with someone playing Brad's role though, even he is not playing well his presence may still be an overall benefit to the team. You often see big forwards getting games when they are out of form, or just not very good players at all, because of their influence on forward line structure. Ideally your big forwards kick goals and thats what we will try and develop over the next couple of years, I think Brad's still got an important role to play in the meantime though and he is capable of kicking goals, he was doing it in mid-late 2008.

Petterd worries me, I rate him but I wonder if he's a jack of all trades master of none. However, I do especially like him in the forwardline though he can get bogged there a bit if he's/we're not having a good day.

I have similar views. I queried whether he was overrated around here before the start of last season, he probably proved me wrong though, he certainly did enough as a forward to keep his spot each week, albeit in an injury ravaged side. I still doubt whether in time he will be as damaging in the forward line as other options though and if he doesn't play there where does he play? He doesnt seem creative enough with it to play as a rebounding defender, where most people had him pegged before the start of least season, he may be a clean user, not at all penetrating though.

Green has all the attributes for a good forward save one thing...size..imho. Has the nouse, has the kicking and marking but would just ( and has been ) monstered by matchups not in his favour.

And what do you make of a Brad Johnson? No doubt he's an exception but he is successful as a full forward nonetheless. Greeny used to play as a leading forward quite a bit and was good at it, everyone agrees he's a beautiful kick and he's also a very strong pack mark. Size works both ways, many taller defenders would find it harder to match up on players his size. The only issue with his size would be forward line dynamics as a whole, he wouldn't bring your crumbers in to the game as much as a traditional pack busting full forward, thats not a definitive negative on its own though.

[spurs-r-us 0]

Depending on his lead up to the start of the season, we really need to get Watts on the park and get experience into him. No excuses now. By then he will have his studies behind him and all focus on football.

I'm getting goosebumps again.

Gippy

from what I've heard from a very inside source, Watts isn't quite ready yet

[rpfc 28,384]

from what I've heard from a very inside source, Watts isn't quite ready yet

He won't be 'ready' for 3 years. But it is imperative for our future fortunes that we give him games now.

On a wing. On a HFF. Wherever.

Let the man play. You let him play!

[Guest Watts=Saviour]

He won't be 'ready' for 3 years. But it is imperative for our future fortunes that we give him games now.

On a wing. On a HFF. Wherever.

Let the man play. You let him play!

exactly.

[the fork 357]

Watts Bate Jurrah

Maric Green Wonaeamirri

interchnge: Pettard, Miller, Jetta.

Watts: Should be ready for at least 10 games this year, Bate and Miller to provide some protection.

Bate: Often underrated on here, when our team fires from the middle this bloke will be pivotal.

Jurrah: I don't have to say much do I? So hard to match up on.

Maric: Waiting for this kid to break into the dangerous player I think he'll become.

Green: We need a little class and a reliable kick, a cool head with experience.

Wonaeamirri: Highly rated internally at the club and will play cameos in the midfield next year.

Pettard: Has a role to play, love his determination.

Miller: Well we're not paying him to play for Casey.

Jetta: Knows where they are, as shown previously.

On another note, albeit a pointless one. It seems that in this years draft we are clambering to draft one if not two KPF. Does anyone not think we missed an opportunity to draft one last year? I thought it odd that we drafted so many vaguely similar players. It was a known fact in 2008 that the 2009 draft was lacking potential KPF's. That said we only drafted Watts and later Jurrah. Below is a list of players we overlooked, admittedly one or two are ruckman, but with the ability to play forward. In my opinion at least one of these would have been handy.

Draft Selection - Team - Name - Height - Comments

22. Port Adelaide -- Jackson Trengove, 197cm, yet to play.

25. Brisbane Lions -- Jack Redden, 189cm, Dees apparently considered drafting Jack. 8 Games, Four goals.

26. Richmond -- Jaydyn Post - 7 Games, 2 Goals, Avg, 10.6 Disposals.

28. Adelaide -- Shaun McKernan, 196cm, 1 game, 8 Disposals.

31. Western Bulldogs -- Jordan Roughead, 199cm, Dees were apparently interested in him at Pick 19.

50. Hawthorn -- Jordan Lisle, 196cm

54. Port Adelaide -- Jarrad Redden, 202cm

57. Brisbane Lions -- Aaron Cornelius, 191.9cm, 1 Game, 2 Goals, 9 Disp.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

HF: TRENGOVE, BATE, PETTERD

F: JURRAH, WATTS, GREEN

Wonaeamirri to start on the bench unless we get Ball then he will be the one to make way for him.

Green is a better forward than midfielder always has been.

Miller should never play a game for the club again Bate does his job a million times better than him. We need to get games into Watts I would rather see him out there not getting a kick than seeing Miller do the same.

[Guest Watts=Saviour]

It was a known fact in 2008 that the 2009 draft was lacking potential KPF's. That said we only drafted Watts and later Jurrah.

Only? Both have the potential to become stars of the afl.

We didn't know at the time we'd have picks 1 & 2 this year, and our midfield was as s**t then as it is now. That's why they would've picked up mids, and rightly so.

[the fork 357]

Only? Both have the potential to become stars of the afl.

We didn't know at the time we'd have picks 1 & 2 this year, and our midfield was as s**t then as it is now. That's why they would've picked up mids, and rightly so.

Watts was one forward picked amongst six midfielders/half-back flankers. Hence the "only". Remembering that Jurrah was not on our radar at this time. My comment does not infer a lack of talent as you clumisily suggest.

As you rightly suggest, our midfield was was lacking this time last year. But to spend five of six picks to fix it is what I am questioning. We equally lacked quality forwards and perhaps failed to capitalise in a draft that provided many more potential forward/ruck options than we knew the 2009 draft would.

Unlike wanting to present gospel like so many around here, I am posing a question rather that attempting to impose my opinion as fact.

Edited November 1, 2009 by the fork

[torpedo 33]

Watts was one forward picked amongst six midfielders/half-back flankers. Hence the "only". Remembering that Jurrah was not on our radar at this time. My comment does not infer a lack of talent as you clumisily suggest.

As you rightly suggest, our midfield was was lacking this time last year. But to spend five of six picks to fix it is what I am questioning. We equally lacked quality forwards and perhaps failed to capitalise in a draft that provided many more potential forward/ruck options than we knew the 2009 draft would.

Unlike wanting to present gospel like so many around here, I am posing a question rather that attempting to impose my opinion as fact.

Personally I think the need for KPFs is massively overstated around here.

As you noted we got 2 marking forwards in last years draft, I don't think you can look at the ND and PSD in isolation, we ended up with 2 senior listed marking forwards and thats all that matters. I would say 2 out of 7 is a good amount, especially now that we already know LJ can play at AFL level. And it should also be noted that LJ currently is & looks to be 10x the player of any of those mentioned, yet if we picked on a 'needs' basis like people are requesting & went specifically for a tall forward earlier on we may never have picked him.

We have players with KPF potential such as Martin, Garland & Morton who are still developing.

Then we have players such as Green & Miller who have 4-5 years left in them while we develop others.

We should always be picking and grooming KPPs as part of our general list management strategy, I don't want us to go picking a player ahead of their ranking specifically to play full forward though. If we keep picking the best kids and some of them have KPP potential we will end up with good players & plenty of options. I also find the versatile KPP prospects generally go onto become better players than those touted only as KPFs.

Given the picks we have I would not expect us to take more than one tall in the upcoming ND.

As a side note I don't know where this obsession with developing a twin towers set-up has come from. Geelong have been the dominant team of the competition for the last 3 years and they have nothing of the sorts. Hawthorn proved how useful the twin towers are without a dominant midfield & defence, they could not even make the finals. St Kilda is an example of nothing as yet & I do not rate Koschitzke's contribution at all.

[H_T 3,043]

On another note, albeit a pointless one. It seems that in this years draft we are clambering to draft one if not two KPF. Does anyone not think we missed an opportunity to draft one last year? I thought it odd that we drafted so many vaguely similar players. It was a known fact in 2008 that the 2009 draft was lacking potential KPF's. That said we only drafted Watts and later Jurrah. Below is a list of players we overlooked, admittedly one or two are ruckman, but with the ability to play forward. In my opinion at least one of these would have been handy.

............

............

Point taken. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Aren't you glad we got Watts & Jurrah ?

Drafting Blease, Strauss, Bennell, Jetta & Bail was an indication of our midfield needing replenishment and pace which was sadly lacking. It still is. Only Bennell & Jetta we have really seen in 2009.

By having Picks 1, 2, 11, 18 it gives us a chance to make our midfield a class midfield and at the same time, perhaps bolster KPP's stocks depending upon best available.

It's good that you pose a question. Nothing wrong with that fork.