Bored, yeah, what of it. Want to fight about it?

Looking at when players move into VL eligibility throws up the prospect that Bruce could be kept on the VL until 2012.

Observe:

Jamar and Miller don't become eligible until 2013.

Davey 2014.

Moloney, Rivers, Sylvia, Bell, Johnson 2015.

Warnock, Newton, Bate, Dunn 2017.

Now we all have our misgivings over whether some of those players will still be playing but Jamar and Davey are very good bets to be the two on the VL after Bruce and Green.

Does this gaurantee, injury permitting, the retention of Bruce until the end of 2012, and Green until the end of 2013?

Remember, a VL spot only takes the place of a RL spot, not one of the 38 Primary List spots.

Very interesting...

Bloody good point and I don't think anyone has brought it up yet.

A fight could keep me entertained though - I must warn you, I'm proficient in the art of chinese burns and nipple cripples...

It will all depend on whether they're playing decent football.

If they're not, we won't keep them hanging around.

If they are, they would be kept anyway (particularly given the draft situation mooted for the next few years).

I mean initially from the sounds of it, it is way too long but think about it, they would both be 32 in 2012 and 2013 respectively, it's not like they'd be going around with walking sticks. A player of Green's class should be able to play (i.e. be retained on a list) until they are 31 or even 32, I think that's reasonable, and Bruce made the valid point last year when he played his 200th that he only started playing professional football at the age of 20, so perhaps his body is not as battered as other 30-year-olds...

I think as fans, particularly as fans of a developing and young list, we are too concerned with age once a player reaches 28. For players who have not had reccurring major soft-tissue injuries throughout their careers - like Green and Bruce - playing beyond 30 is not necessarily a problem and physically there is no reason that either of them can't go on until 32. If they are playing consistent footy like they did this year, there is no reason to delist them purely based on a birth date. Here's to Bruce and Green getting to 300!

There are no guarantees about anyone staying on the list indefinitely, and what I am saying here is that having a player aged 32 or even 33 on your list is not the end of the world as most people seem to think it is. I would say that on the face of it Brucey won't be going around in 2012, I'd say he's got two more years left, but hey, if he had a good 2011 and there was a spot for him on the veteran's list and we weren't looking to clear out a heap of players, then it is possible that he could be retained as a 32-year-old.

I saw highlights of the 2000 Prelim yesterday, these two were very prominent figures that day!

Very interesting...

should use this term very loosely

It will all depend on whether they're playing decent football.

If they're not, we won't keep them hanging around.

If they are, they would be kept anyway (particularly given the draft situation mooted for the next few years).

I'm wondering how much effect it had on retaining James Mcdonald.

James is on the VL and I take it Bruce has replaced Robbo on VL. You can have 2 players outside the main list. (Green qualifys 2011)

The main list doesn't change with Jmac retiring. So in essence we would have a spare spot VL and had to draft an extra rookie.

With GC raping rookie list and 8 month talent period, Jmac gets to go on when in another year, he might not have.

I'm wondering how much effect it had on retaining James Mcdonald.

I was thinking that too. If McDonald retires, the net effect would be losing half of his salary out of the cap, and that's it. He doesn't free up a space in the list, because there's nobody to replace him on the veteran's list this year. Losing him would just make it even more difficult to get up to the minimum salary cap, for almost no benefit (an extra rookie, essentially pick one-hundred-and-something in the draft, yay).

He's essentially a nice freebie on the list for next year. No wonder the club were in such a rush to sign him up for another year.

Bruce and Green have both been reasonably durable players, despite a few nasty hits they've copped.

They have also both learnt a variety of roles over their careers.

Green is a more potent player all round, and I'm sure will still nail a Best & Fairest at some point.

Bruce is less damaging and at some times this year and last year looked a little less than 100% committed to chasing and unrewarded play, BUT to his credit he clearly set out to address that and improvement has been there.

Both could be around, as credible AFL players, for some years yet. We could be in a lot worse position than we are, as far as veteran's list goes.

Davey is on a four year contract, his next contract will be veteran all the way, which will suit us and him I reckon.

Bruce? aw crapppppp... don't tell me we're stuck with his suicide handballs and kicks-to-disadvantage for the next 4 years...

I was hoping he'd get the flick the year after next

I can still hope

Surely the significance of McDonald being kept with no immediate players pushing for his VL spot isn't just dawning on people now.

_____________________________________

rpfc has highlighted (in some ways at least) a milestone for our list, it does reinforce just how much we have culled the top end of the list in the last 3 years.

As for the fighting reference, we may have our very own Russell Crow of Demonland. (kidding)

Surely the significance of McDonald being kept with no immediate players pushing for his VL spot isn't just dawning on people now.

_____________________________________

rpfc has highlighted (in some ways at least) a milestone for our list, it does reinforce just how much we have culled the top end of the list in the last 3 years.

I think it more shows the lack of middle-age depth that we had on the list.

It was either 'getting close to too old' or 'still a few years away from being able to hold their own against the best'

I think it more shows the lack of middle-age depth that we had on the list.

It was either 'getting close to too old' or 'still a few years away from being able to hold their own against the best'

Yeah, fair point.

Having said that, McDonald is 33 and Green (the next oldest player outside the VL) is 28 with 2 years to go before pushing for a VL spot. Even if we had more players around the age of Green, there is still a 5 year window there where a hell of a lot of players have been delisted who have been at our top end for the last three years or so. I understand your point though, Green is sort of in no mans land with 2 years either side of nearest age players and that is where we should have had a little more quality than what we do.

McDonald 33 - VL

Bruce 30 - VL

__________________

Green 28

__________________

Davey 26

Jamar 26

Miller 26

I think it more shows the lack of middle-age depth that we had on the list.

I think this is more accurate.

So Green can replace JMac as a veteran next year?

I think keep him and Bruce to 2012 at least. They provide valuable leadership and experience. I don't understand how people can be dissing Bruce when he is twice as good as 80% of the midfield....not on potential, but at the PRESENT.

Newton, Dunn, Johnson, Miller...what's the point of even bringing them up in this thread?

Hmm... I'm not expecting that Bruce will wind the clock back to that brief flare of BOG performances back in 05, but I do think he will be a solid contributor for years yet, particularly as his role changes and as our recently recruited phalanx of midfielders with skills and speed play a bigger role.

The fact that he'll be essentially taking up no space on the list until such time as the next generation (the current 26 year olds) is eligible for veteran status makes it a striaght win for us.

It's nice to know that we wont have to be letting go of any more enduring servants of the club for at least a couple of years. Even when we've known it's time, it still sucked.

Green is eligible in 2011.

And for those who think Bruce cannot provide something should have a chat with the FD; they just voted him the 3rd best player after voting him the best player the year before. I'm sure they would tell you why he is value beyond his, at times, shoddy disposal.

Also, Bruce and Green will not play a lot of time in the middle from now on, and nor should they. But they will be value at either ends of the ground for the foreseeable future: Bruce down back, and Green up forward.

Time for the kids to get in the guts.

Yeah, fair point.

Having said that, McDonald is 33 and Green (the next oldest player outside the VL) is 28 with 2 years to go before pushing for a VL spot. Even if we had more players around the age of Green, there is still a 5 year window there where a hell of a lot of players have been delisted who have been at our top end for the last three years or so. I understand your point though, Green is sort of in no mans land with 2 years either side of nearest age players and that is where we should have had a little more quality than what we do.

McDonald 33 - VL

Bruce 30 - VL

__________________

Green 28

__________________

Davey 26

Jamar 26

Miller 26

The age of our players on the list resembles swiss cheese. Here are the years our players made their debuts, you can see the lean years of where our recruiting for various reasons (ie. draft penalties, more misses than hits in recruiting) relates to the age gaps you have presented: -

Melbourne: -

'97 - McDonald, Robertson

'98 - ----------------------------------

'99 - ----------------------------------

'00 - Bruce, Green, Wheatley,Whelan

'01 - ----------------------------------

'02 - Miller

'03 - Moloney, Rivers, Jamar

'04 - Bell, Davey, PJ, McLean, Sylvia

'05 - ----------------------------------

'06 - Bartram, Bate, Dunn, Jones, Warnock

'07 - Buckley, Frawley, Garland, Newton, Petterd

'08 - Grimes, Maric, Martin, Morton, Wonaeamirri

'09 - Watts, Bennell, Jetta, Cheney, Jurrah

The link for reference: - http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?show...Comparing+Lists

The age of our players on the list resembles swiss cheese. Here are the years our players made their debuts, you can see the lean years of where our recruiting for various reasons (ie. draft penalties, more misses than hits in recruiting) relates to the age gaps you have presented: -

Melbourne: -

'05 - ----------------------------------

'06 - Bartram, Bate, Dunn, Jones, Warnock

'07 - Buckley, Frawley, Garland, Newton, Petterd

'08 - Grimes, Maric, Martin, Morton, Wonaeamirri

'09 - Watts, Bennell, Jetta, Cheney, Jurrah

2008, Valenti

2009, Spencer, McNamara, McKenzie, Bail