Thanks for the useless information. I'm staggered to find out that higher draft picks have played more games than lower draft picks. Who would have guessed?

The point that Rojik and IWS have been making is that an additional high draft pick will not make one iota of difference to a team that has a losing culture. Instilling the current team with some confidence will achieve better results in the future, rather than pinning your hopes on 1 draft pick.

Whoever agreed to clearing Darren Jolly should be arrested & Jailed. I nearly broke my TV on Saturday night after watching his game. 21 when he walked. Grrrr

Was it that hard to answer? There are two AFL captains that have come from the rookie list (somebody also said Maxwell but I'm not sure about that) which suggests to me that a good recruiting team will get good players regardless of where the picks are and a bad team will also screw it up. And I've followed the team for four decades without success, and I've seen all manner of theories on how we can win a flag - none of which have worked - so you'll have to forgive me when I say I just want to enjoy what ever wins we can get without worrying about some pie-in-the-sky promise for a flag years from now.

They were pretty obvious questions.

Thats two out of how many possible recruits. Never make the exceptions the rule. Good recruiters maximise their draft picks and choose wisefully. Getting a serviceable AFL player off the rookie list is not that easy. Getting a star is punting on it. Lets go to Crown and conjure a premiership team. You dont aim high. Fair enough. But just remember whatever wins you get or want is going to come down to the players in your squad. If you dont make hay while the opportunity presents itself then you wont have many wins when 18 sides are vying for talent.

Whoever agreed to clearing Darren Jolly should be arrested & Jailed. I nearly broke my TV on Saturday night after watching his game. 21 when he walked. Grrrr

Would you have preferred that we let him walk to the PSD the year after we traded him. He got [censored] off because he could not get game time against the then AA ruckman. What would you have done at that time?

Hindsight easily misleads.

Would you have preferred that we let him walk to the PSD the year after we traded him. He got [censored] off because he could not get game time against the then AA ruckman. What would you have done at that time?

Hindsight easily misleads.

He should have been Given More Game time Full Stop. It was one of ND's Biggest Mistakes. Jeff White was never right after his shin problems but Danners had him in the "Favorites Book" along with the Oooze who played 2 years too long. Both were great players who over stayed their welcome. It's why this club is percieved as soft from the outside...Because it is.

You dont aim high.

Bwahahaha! I don't aim high because I want my team to win? Thanks for the laugh

Bwahahaha! I don't aim high because I want my team to win? Thanks for the laugh

After 40+ years of no flag success, you dont want to give yourself the best chance to do that by securing the most talented group of footballers together that you can.

Figures.

He should have been Given More Game time Full Stop. It was one of ND's Biggest Mistakes. Jeff White was never right after his shin problems but Danners had him in the "Favorites Book" along with the Oooze who played 2 years too long. Both were great players who over stayed their welcome. It's why this club is percieved as soft from the outside...Because it is.

White was reigning AA ruckman and deserved his opportunities in that year. Jolly was immature sulk who gave little at MFC when his chance came at the end of 2004.

However an alternative to White should have been actively sort through draft/rookie/trade in 2005 though. You get no argument from me over Yze.

In the last 2 years we have pensioned off White and Yze. Robbo should be soon. Culture sores Carroll and TJ have been cut.

Give the younger players a chance. There is more leadership in some of those young guys there than was often shown by some senior players at MFC.

After 40+ years of no flag success, you dont want to give yourself the best chance to do that by securing the most talented group of footballers together that you can.

Figures.

What I want and what will happen is two different things. I realise we will struggle to win more games this year because we are just not good enough, so the wet dreams of so many posters will come true. This does not stop me wanting to see us win every game we play. You want us to lose go along and barrack for the opposition.

Is it because you have no answer or are you just generally rude to people?

:D

The point that Rojik and IWS have been making is that an additional high draft pick will not make one iota of difference to a team that has a losing culture. Instilling the current team with some confidence will achieve better results in the future, rather than pinning your hopes on 1 draft pick.

5 wins and no scully is better than 4 wins and scully ... yeah you make the choice. the one or two extra losses/wins aren't going to change our culture. a number one draft pick (and that too a standout) can. we are not good enough to win 5 games at the moment. simple as that.

Whoever agreed to clearing Darren Jolly should be arrested & Jailed. I nearly broke my TV on Saturday night after watching his game. 21 when he walked. Grrrr

ah this old chestnut. it is getting very very frustrating.

we got a a first round pick for an underperforming, whinging and physically unintimidating 3rd choice ruckman. at the time it was gold, now it isn't. simple.

Hindsight easily misleads.

exactly.

as for the WCE game, i actually think we are due a win and need one just for moral/respect. i dont think it will impact us, because i think we're a monty to win the spoon with less than 4 wins.

5 wins and no scully is better than 4 wins and scully ... yeah you make the choice. the one or two extra losses/wins aren't going to change our culture. a number one draft pick (and that too a standout) can. we are not good enough to win 5 games at the moment. simple as that.

Exactly. What do people prefer?

NickNat for the next 10 years or a DVD of the game we played against Carlton or Bulldogs in 07.

It is simple as that but no doubt people will still try to spin siht.

I would love to beat St.Kilda by 3 goals in rnd 22 to finish off the season....how good would that be

yes.... what a finale to a horrid year

If no one wants us to win the game against West Coast then don't turn up- or turn up in west coast colours. If you want the Demons to lose games then you don't barrack for them. Simple as that. I go to the footy every week because I want my team to beat the opposition. Dean Bailey has said that the Demons don't tank and they come out to play and win every week. So everyone is calling our coach a liar? Draft picks aren't anywhere near as exciting as the joy from winning a game. Tanking only slows things down, winning games brings form. Everyone has to realise this.

If no one wants us to win the game against West Coast then don't turn up- or turn up in west coast colours. If you want the Demons to lose games then you don't barrack for them. Simple as that. I go to the footy every week because I want my team to beat the opposition. Dean Bailey has said that the Demons don't tank and they come out to play and win every week. So everyone is calling our coach a liar? Draft picks aren't anywhere near as exciting as the joy from winning a game. Tanking only slows things down, winning games brings form. Everyone has to realise this.

If you go to the footy every week then sure you will realise that we are simply not good enough to win more games and have to both improving the calibre of the players on our list and develop the quality of the list as well. DB is right we dont tank. We dont have to. However there are other Clubs like Rich, Freo and WCE that know full well that this is the last year unadulterated year to pick talent before GC and WS18 come into the competition and they will and are throwing games.

As draft picks arent enjoyable as winning games, I dont know about you but I would have got a bigger buzz out of MFC having Nik Nat/ Hill/Rich as a 200 game 10 yr player than winning a meaningless R22 game in 1987.

MFC would have rocks in its head not to exploit the opportunity to have two good dips at further adding to its talented list.

And its great you appreciate three young stars in Watts, Grimes and Bennell. Now has do players like that come about?

IMO we already unfortunately lack a winning culture and we arent good enough to change that dramatically. If by beating the likes of freo and wce and maybe kangas and tiges since there probably at this stage the teams we are only good enough to beat, a winning culture and good expereince then i disagree, weve had too many consecutive losses and winning one or two more wouldnt make much of a difference, i want to win no more than 4 games because it is crucial we built the foundation now because i do no want to go through this again or end up back here because we lacked a little somtihng.

As for saying the order of draft pics doesnt matter much well i would rather not leave it upto a very unlikely possibilty of picking up a james hird or any good footballer at a late pic also i think the draft has changed now and you would be very very luky to pick up a very good footballer late in a draft given the amount of time the kids are watched these days.

And Even though i only want 4 wins every week i still barrack for the dees and erg them on to win i just cant help it.

I think we'll win, and i'm fine with that. As many others have already said, regardless of whether we win or lose against the Eagles, there is very little chance of us winning more than 4 games anyway.

I'll take the wins whenever we can get them, which in all honesty, won't be too often this year. Definitely not more than 4 times, IMO.

If we are on 4 wins with say, 3 or 4 weeks remaining, then we can start to worry. But as it stands, we're on 1 (ONE) win, and another win right now won't really hurt our (drafting) position at all IMO. I don't care if we finish last or second last, just as long as we don't win 5, which i'm sure won't happen anyway because we aren't good enough.

Pick 1 & 2, 1 & 3, or Pick 2 & 4, all sound fine to me really.

Rhino round 22, 2007.

The point that Rojik and IWS have been making is that an additional high draft pick will not make one iota of difference to a team that has a losing culture. Instilling the current team with some confidence will achieve better results in the future, rather than pinning your hopes on 1 draft pick.

In your opinion mo, why is Carlton doing as well as it is this year? They might have had 2 good trades (Judd and Stevens), but it's safe to say their climb up the ladder is being led by their youth. Their repeated losses over the 2004-2007 period haven't hampered them, have they?

I want us to win as bad as you do, but there just is no benefit in winning 5 games and getting 1 top-10 pick compared to winning 4 games and getting 2 top-10 picks.

You make a good point in regards to pinning our hopes on these draft picks. These players aren't the be all and end all of our chances of winning a flag.

Can some of the losers please explain something for me, I am a bit slow.

Carlton tank and are known as carltank on this page, dam them those bloody cheats.

West coast is tanking now bloody handgropers!

Now us darling DEES, we dont tank, no not us, no sir we mearly lose.

Dam those other 2 cheating clubs.

Oh for gods sake dont blame carlton or WC as you want the same result but want to hold onto your virginity!

If you believe its in the best interest of the club to lose, fair enough thats your opinion and you have all

the right to think that.

BUT PLEASE BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, you are carlton, you are WC no better no worse.

If you believe tanking is the way to go, please oh please call it what it is-

TANKING

Tanking = Players actively trying to lose by deliberately kicking behinds instead of Goals. Not being responsible for their opponent running riot. (CFC)

List management = Shrewd planning of the game from weeks ahead, designed to maximise developement whilst at the same time ensuring not to harm the clubs longer term objectives.

I'm all for List managing Wet Coke back to Perth with Worsfold clenching his teeth & worrying about winning another.

I think we'll win, and i'm fine with that. As many others have already said, regardless of whether we win or lose against the Eagles, there is very little chance of us winning more than 4 games anyway.

I'll take the wins whenever we can get them, which in all honesty, won't be too often this year. Definitely not more than 4 times, IMO.

If we are on 4 wins with say, 3 or 4 weeks remaining, then we can start to worry. But as it stands, we're on 1 (ONE) win, and another win right now won't really hurt our (drafting) position at all IMO. I don't care if we finish last or second last, just as long as we don't win 5, which i'm sure won't happen anyway because we aren't good enough.

Pick 1 & 2, 1 & 3, or Pick 2 & 4, all sound fine to me really.

'Doggo', we'll be trying to compete with them in September in 3 - 4 years time & they Are ahead of us with their list quality now.

But two picks in the top 10 will sure as hell give us the best two available or 2 of the best 3 kids available to give us a better chance at a shot of a flag one would assume. No current side will get this chance within the next 5 years at least. Except 1 other side: West coast. Ask yourself why are they going so bad this year having won the flag only 2.5 years ago?

If no one wants us to win the game against West Coast then don't turn up- or turn up in west coast colours. If you want the Demons to lose games then you don't barrack for them. Simple as that. I go to the footy every week because I want my team to beat the opposition. Dean Bailey has said that the Demons don't tank and they come out to play and win every week. So everyone is calling our coach a liar? Draft picks aren't anywhere near as exciting as the joy from winning a game. Tanking only slows things down, winning games brings form. Everyone has to realise this.

HaHa that's the attitude of the past 45 years. We need Class Players to win against the TOP TEAMS. To get those top players we need to get the Best Draft Picks Before teams like West Coke Get them.

Please everybody understand this before one of us DIES!!

I don't want to win 10 -12 Games a year. I want Melbourne to win 20 a year. NO PAIN NO GAIN......

Rhino, you have far far too much time on your hands mate.... (7,000 odd posts)

Every post I see from you seems to be criticising someone elses and rather than giving some interesting opinions about the subject matter, you seem to quote what people say and then rebut them. You must live a happy a life.

I have a question for you Rhino.

Assuming Bailey and Co. are list managing, (ie tanking) so we are able to gain access to these priority picks, how do you think the middle age players feel?

If I was playing footy for the dees and I was a Davey, Green, Bruce, Rivers or Miller I certainly wouldn't be happy with the way thing's are going at Melbourne. In fact I would be ready to move clubs because the mentality on this site seems to be that we won't be pushing for a flag until 2012. So ask yourself Rhino....

Do you think the middle to late aged players are happy at Melbourne at the moment? Do you think they are excited by the fact that we are trying to gain draft picks so we can "build for the future", whilst knowing that there will be a very slim chance they will be around then?

It's a tough one isn't it? While I am content with sitting out the year in one way, knowing we will have picks 1 and 2 or 1 and 3. I am also very worried about the morale of some of our senior players and I wonder how much longer they can cope with this losing culture.

I just bloody hope that we will win a grand final from this "re-building" phase, because if we don't. I will be one fiery hot little potato.

Go Dee's.

Rhino, you have far far too much time on your hands mate.... (7,000 odd posts)

Every post I see from you seems to be criticising someone elses and rather than giving some interesting opinions about the subject matter, you seem to quote what people say and then rebut them. You must live a happy a life.

I have a question for you Rhino.

Assuming Bailey and Co. are list managing, (ie tanking) so we are able to gain access to these priority picks, how do you think the middle age players feel?

If I was playing footy for the dees and I was a Davey, Green, Bruce, Rivers or Miller I certainly wouldn't be happy with the way thing's are going at Melbourne. In fact I would be ready to move clubs because the mentality on this site seems to be that we won't be pushing for a flag until 2012. So ask yourself Rhino....

Do you think the middle to late aged players are happy at Melbourne at the moment? Do you think they are excited by the fact that we are trying to gain draft picks so we can "build for the future", whilst knowing that there will be a very slim chance they will be around then?

It's a tough one isn't it? While I am content with sitting out the year in one way, knowing we will have picks 1 and 2 or 1 and 3. I am also very worried about the morale of some of our senior players and I wonder how much longer they can cope with this losing culture.

I just bloody hope that we will win a grand final from this "re-building" phase, because if we don't. I will be one fiery hot little potato.

Go Dee's.

See where you are coming from Mate, but we seriously do not have a choice-Don'f forget the two new teams are going to Rape & pilliage the best Talent for a number of years. We need Forwards & Midfielders NOW....

I think the middle to senior players currently would be buoyed by the current youth of today and know exactly where the club is at having lost alot of senior players of the last few years. Early 2007 the writing was on the wall and whilst those players may not have seen it initially, by the end of 2007 after Daniher left they would have known they were in for a lean period.