THE TEAMS

[JACKATTACK 17]

I reckon we will too just quietly, but I'm still excited none-the-less.

Yep, they are a far more experienced team, particularly at the younger end.

Career games for named players:

Jurrah 0 Hooker 8

Watts 1 Hocking 14

Cheney 5 Pears 16

Jetta 5 Reimers 19

Grimes 6 Dempsey 20

Bennell 9 Prismall 26

Martin 17 Lonergan 28

Frawley 30 Davey 30

Morton 30 Skipworth 50

Bartram 52 Ryder 63

Johnson 54 Winderlich 66

Bate 59 Dyson 75

Moloney 80 Lovett 77

Rivers 80 Monfries 83

Sylvia 80 Watson 83

McLean 86 Stanton 109

Davey 108 Welsh 134

Miller 120 McPhee 156

Whelan 144 McVeigh 179

Green 193 Lucas 263

Bruce 195 Lloyd 263

Robertson 220 Fletcher 300

[titan_uranus 23,226]

On the Footy Show last night they said that Jones and Warnock have 'flu-like' symptoms. If we were playing on Sunday they would have kept their spots in the team. They don't know if it is swine flu or not, but it doesn't matter anymore. The government has changed protocol, so now you don't have to be quarantined or anything like that. If it is swine flu they'll be over it soon anyway.

Very disappointed to see Warnock go, especially since we need Martin to ruck in Jamar's absence. Unless we ruck someone else, I'm not sure who's going to play on Lucas (then again, Lucas might be doing some ruckwork as well, so it could be Martin on Lucas, leaving Rivers for Lloyd).

If we have a good game tonight, Jones might find it difficult to get back into this team. McDonald would too, but since he's captain I assume, once he regains fitness, he'll be back.

I`m sure Maric didn`t get dropped on form he performed very well over the last few weeks

No he didn't. Might not have been entirely his fault, but his last few weeks haven't been great. Jetta's Casey form meant that the selectors couldn't keep playing Maric in his currrent form.

[Doggo 32]

Doggo, time to let go of your "pj's gonna be a good player for us" dream. He's just no good brother, I know its upsetting but its time to move on

LOL

I know where you're coming from Benny, but i think Dappa Dan makes a good point. In PJ's month prior to his last 2 matches, his form had been pretty good (see Rnd 7, 8 and 9). His first 5 games before that were indifferent, but i thought he made up for his poor start in that period where he was playing lone-ruckman. 2 poor games later and people want to end his career.

Don't get me wrong, i thought he was dreadful on QB, although after watching at the replay i noted that his ruckwork was very good. His errors were massive, as i already said, but beside those errors, his game wasn't bad.

I'll reserve judgement until at least the end of the season.

P.S. Are you coming tonight? I sent u a txt, call me.

Very disappointed to see Warnock go, especially since we need Martin to ruck in Jamar's absence. Unless we ruck someone else, I'm not sure who's going to play on Lucas (then again, Lucas might be doing some ruckwork as well, so it could be Martin on Lucas, leaving Rivers for Lloyd).

I reckon Rivers will go to Lucas, with Frawley starting on Llloyd.

Martin will probably play on the resting ruckman, probably head-to-head with Cale Hooker, who's been used forward recently as well as short stints in the ruck. When Hooker swings into the ruck, Martin will do the same, as when Ryder goes off for a rest, so too will PJ.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I've already had this discussion with you before. Your support for PJ is a bit misguided given that you haven't seen many live games this year.

He has been appalling with his ball use and lacks competitiveness in the ruck. I would think that if Jamar was fit, PJ would have lost his spot in the side for Martin, and rightfully so.

I honestly believe that his career might have been saved by the long-term injury to Meesen.

By live, do you mean at the ground? If you mean by TV, I've seen them all. I have connections even in the states. And I'd suggest MANY of our keyboard heroes base a LOT of what they see on the 2 dimensional version of the game...

As for support for PJ, there's nothing misguided about my support. I've seen MORE than enough from him over the time he's been at the club, as well as this and last season. His ball use has not been "appalling." It wasn't great last week, but then who's was? I'll say it again, he played a sensational month there a couple of weeks ago after a slow start to the year... When you and other naysayers acknowledge how well he played THEN, and how well he will certainly play in the future, then I'll take your criticisms more seriously. Alse, too many supporters place too much emphasis on individual passages of play, and individual mistakes... I've been guilty of it, especially with Newton in the all-too-familiar Adelaide game. PJ has made clangers, even repeated ones, but for every mistake he makes a sublime 50-metre pass with great vision on the run, which is subsequently ignored.

Bottom line, people like you have it "in" for PJ, and wait for the handful of clangers he will inevitably have, maybe a drop off in form, and then you start the chorus of "drop the spud."

And somehow you maintain support of Jamar, who is older, has played more games, and has NEVER had the effect on a game like PJ's a few weeks ago. Could Jamar run with big Cox? I don't think so. As for the ruckwork thing, I'll say it again, who gives a rats about how many taps he gets? They're borderline pointless... And in any case, if you want to go down that path, he's racked up 20+ taps in games this season a few times.

What's his season been like?

It's not just his Collingwood game...

His season? The month where he took the main job, he was more of a presence than any ruckman on our list has ever been (apologies to the younger guys who haven't had their chance). As I suggested above, his form has been patchy at times, but then if we're going to get off players because they're "patchy" we'd have probably 2 players on the list. Davey and Green.

He came from the 2002 draft, has played over 50 games and turns 25 next week - he's at or over the halfway mark of his career (assuming he lasts that long) - he's hardly a baby.

He had 2 seasons completely ruined by injury, effectively making him 23... Most ruckmen don't have the body and engine to play regularly until they're 21, and by 23 they have racked up about... let me see.... 50-odd games. Add to that that many talls, Lade/Everitt/Ball/White linger into their 30s. We support ruckmen while they develop as "talls take longer" and then jump on them immediately because they're not having huge output by the age of 25 that many midfielders do.

Let's just see how he goes this week. I might be made a fool of for this week, but I'm quietly confident PJ won't let me down.

[Jaded No More 60,103]

I'll say it again, he played a sensational month there a couple of weeks ago after a slow start to the year...

I guess that your concept of "sensational" and mine, are very different.

PJ was competitive, in his four week stint as standalone ruck. By going at it alone it also means he spent less time linking the play and turning it over, which was good.

You might gloss over the fact that he is a poor ruckman by saying it doesn't matter, but of course it does. That is his primary role, and we play that position for a reason. A good ruckman won't compensate for a terrible midfield, but a poor ruckman can definitely make things a lot worse.

And the reason why I mention that you haven't seen games live, is because it is very hard to judge how much better we are in the middle when Jamar is rucking.

By the way, Jamar is not much chop either.