Context

We ( all current participants of the AFL ) are at a juncture somewhat unparalled in its history. Yes the Swannies and other teams some something of a leg up at introduction but nothing compared to the genorosity the AFL is displaying prior to the Goldies taking to the field.

A reality is we are building. Another is that we are still filling out our list.. Another is that the GC mob will be "shopping"..possibly unlikely to affect us much, but who knows. What does affect us is that this years draft is the last fair and even-ish for many a whiles. Once the benefits handed to Gold Coast wear off they will implement somethig similar for the next team...just watch !!. So basically if you arent in some sort of shape to tackle the next 10 years with some modicum of depth then you will be struggling.

So do folks want to look short term and discuss the merits of blind and abject desire for somewhat lonely and meaningles wins or look to the big picture and feel a little confident that should we happen to pick upa few more decent types this year then we are very well situated to make positve and real growth with a resultant noticable and sustained climb up the ladder with every chance of real success.

Its not pleasant to really talk about another year in pain. But there is pain...and there is pain with upside.

There is no evading that this year is about getting mileage into young bodies; getting time on the grass is invaluable to the development of the kids. Eventually they will get stronger and better, more confident and at some point gel into a truly effective and self believing outfit. This wont come overnight and it wont come without , yep , you guessed it; more pain.

Whilst I would really like us to be ultracompetitive I dont see any real benefit unless you are going to get into the eight as a result.. Yes we are biding our time in a fashion but the prize is worth it. If we play smart this year we will be one of the dominant teams of the next decade and then all this discussion will seem moot !!

  mo64 said:

I find this perverse and pathetic that supporters are promoting losing...........

And we wonder why we have'nt wona flag for decades

  whitito said:

And we wonder why we have'nt wona flag for decades

Are you suggesting that we haven't won a flag for decades because I want another pp this year?

If so, that's hilarious. I have alot more power than I initially thought...

If not, carry on.

Jarka, whitito didn't quote you so I'd assume he/she wasn't referring to you

  45hotgod said:

Jarka, whitito didn't quote you so I'd assume he/she wasn't referring to you

Correct, he was quoting mo who was quoting me.

Just seeking clarification

  mo64 said:

I find this perverse and pathetic that supporters are promoting losing...........

As long as the players don't take it that way, they should be trying to win. even if they're up against it.

PS: We been ripped off by members of the VFL/AFL for years, clubs buying our players & cheating in many ways, we're just too slow to catch on to the new idea's.

Every time this stuff gets brought up I'm in two minds:

On one hand I go to most games with some glimmer of hope that we can win. Obviously we don't and against most teams we simply don't stand a chance, but I want to WIN games, and always will, and I feel sick thinking about losing another 16 games... BUT...

On the other hand I know that picks 1 and 2 will set us up brilliantly for the future. With the Gold Coast and West Sydney coming in over the next few years and draft picks being scarce, we have bottomed out at the right time. I think we will finish in the bottom 2 on the ladder this year which will land us one of Butcher or Scully regardless of how many games we win, and we can look forward with some hope for the future.

But remember, we are only 2 games in to the year. We are still missing 5 of our top 6 picks from the last 2 years and we have other players to return to the line up. I think we will really start to play some good, consistent footy in the second half of the year and surprise a few team in the process. The first half of the year, however, could get ugly at times!

  mo64 said:

I find this perverse and pathetic that supporters are promoting losing...........

you should be used to losing by now. we desperately need pick 1 and 2.

  45hotgod said:

Ahhh, i get the horrible feeling it may be higher

after sitting through the last two games l reckon we will be hard pressed to win 2 games this year, maybe Freo or Port or Ess at the MCG but no more, we will not win an away game

  mo64 said:

You really are clueless. How many of your so called C graders were 1st round draft picks like Watts and Blease?

Until a player has played senior football, you can't say what impact they will have at AFL level.

and they need to be given at least 20 games before judgement can be made, we have plenty of young blokes who will make the grade

  Jarka said:

You're allowed your opinion, good for you.

The facts are that the team that has graced the MCG over the last half dozen years has not come even close to winning a premiership, we need to continue to turn the list over and adding two top three picks from a strong draft will help our plight. This year is a free hit, everyone expects us to finish bottom, everyone expects us to get a PP. We won't lose any more ground if we have another poor year (or good in terms of player development, which is how I see it).

We have a great opportunity to build for the future and I don't want to see the club follow the steps of Richmond.

Regardless, even if we tried all season and played with our strongest team I don't think we could win more than 4 games, we have too many holes in our list.

Jarka, there's a difference between expressing a realistic assessment that we are unlikely to win 6 games this season and the benefit associated with that, and boldly stating the losses required to achieve the priority pick.

I don't derive any pleasure with our losses, regardless of the reward.

  mousey said:

Am i the only one who does not really care at all about getting the priority pick.

Like yes its a good thing to have if we lose less than five games but i sure as [censored] want to win as much games as we can.

I believe a winning culture is way more important than losing for an extra priority pick.

I know i am probably alone in this one.

If we do indeed suck and dont win more than 5 games so be it...great but i am no way cheering for us to win less than 5 games

I totally agree with you Mousey. A Winning Culture is way better than a complete season of resignation all in pursuit of 2 picks in a draft of 17 year olds. A club should be way bigger than 2 young boys

This club has not had a winning culture for a long time. I for one want that changed. This thread should be deleted. My opinion.

Fair enough YWL, I think this is a horrible part of footy nowadays.

The posters who "agree" with losing 16 more don't WANT to lose 16, I think they're just ebing realistic about this year and trying to draw positives.

I don't feel this is a conversation that will ever be sorted out

  45hotgod said:

Fair enough YWL, I think this is a horrible part of footy nowadays.

The posters who "agree" with losing 16 more don't WANT to lose 16, I think they're just ebing realistic about this year and trying to draw positives.

I don't feel this is a conversation that will ever be sorted out

I agree with both of you. While PP's are great, we are not a Carlton, Richmond or Hawthorn. What is being forgotten here is the corrosive affect on confidence while we cop floggings week after week. In a club like ours, that may become a cancer.

I would rather a winning culture than a mindset of resignation, for the sake of top draft picks. We run a great risk if that is what we rely on for future success.

Could someone please clarify for me and others.

Some posters on here are stating that if we finnish last with less than 5 wins we get picks 1 and 2.

Last year we got 1,17 and 18.

Witch is it thanks.

Deetank anyone???

  iv said:

I agree with both of you. While PP's are great, we are not a Carlton, Richmond or Hawthorn. What is being forgotten here is the corrosive affect on confidence while we cop floggings week after week. In a club like ours, that may become a cancer.

I would rather a winning culture than a mindset of resignation, for the sake of top draft picks. We run a great risk if that is what we rely on for future success.

It already has become a cancer. I like the way you use the word corrosive in terms of confidence. 2 Priority Draft Picks are not going to solve that one.

This thread treads very Dangerous Water.

  45hotgod said:

Fair enough YWL, I think this is a horrible part of footy nowadays.

The posters who "agree" with losing 16 more don't WANT to lose 16, I think they're just ebing realistic about this year and trying to draw positives.

I don't feel this is a conversation that will ever be sorted out

I think "Some Posters" on here are quite happy to keep losing as Failure requires no preparation. Its always easy to blame Youth, inexperience or injury for under achievement.

Look at Cyril Rioli. He was a first year 18 year old. Played a blinder in last years GF.

I am sick of hearing excuses.

Developing a winning culture is great... when the team is not rubbish and is actually capable of winning games.

At this stage of the year, we can only continue to do what we're doing so far. That is, play the kids, stick to the game plan, experiment (Petterd as a forward, Davey playing out of the backline etc...) and place the greatest emphasis on competing for 4 quarters. That is not tanking, but it won't get us wins either, which is simply the reality of the situation.

IMO the issue comes later in the year, where one of two things will happen. Either our young bodies will tire and we'll start seeing less and less competitive quarters, or the players will become more and more comfortable with the game plan and we'll string some good games together and possibly even a few wins.

If it's round 18 and we're on 3 wins, I would be extremely disappointed if some clever 'list management' wasn't applied to enable us to lose the last 4 rounds of the year. That's not to say that I want our players to display the sort of Round 21-22 rubbish we saw last year, but it would be wise to maybe rest Rivers and McLean (if they even make it to round 18 :D), maybe some of our better kids have 'general soreness', maybe a couple of players who are struggling to stay on the list all of a sudden are given some game time (hello Newton). This is the sort of stuff I would like to see the club implement if it looks likely that we can snap up two first round priority picks.

Short term pain for long term gain. We need to look beyond this year, and beyond our selfish desires to go to the G' and see our team pull a couple of wins out of their behind. Afterall, does anyone give a [censored] that we beat the Dogs in 2007? Wouldn't it have been nice to get Watts AND Niknat/Rich/etc... last year instead of just Watts?

If we're not going to even come close to playing finals, than the biggest reward we can get out of 2009 is having the two best kids in the country join our club.

Lol, Cyril Rioli played a blinder as an 18 year old, so surely a team of 18 year olds would collectively all play blinders.

Absolutely naive point of view. I'm sure if our rookies were in a team that contained Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, Bateman, Franklin Roughead Sewell etc, they'd play pretty well too.

Morton has started very well, as has Martin, Garland in his 3rd year, Jetta/Bennel have looked good in pieces. It's not helping us at the moment because we have no leaders.

You're not supporting the team by instigating this theory that we're losing because we're not "putting in" or trying hard enough.

And I suppose Hawthorn's injuries have nothing to do with their 0-2 start...

  Jaded said:

Afterall, does anyone give a [censored] that we beat the Dogs in 2007? Wouldn't it have been nice to get Watts AND Niknat/Rich/etc... last year instead of just Watts?

I, for one, am just glad we were able to establish a winning culture through this match

  45hotgod said:

Lol, Cyril Rioli played a blinder as an 18 year old, so surely a team of 18 year olds would collectively all play blinders.

Absolutely naive point of view. I'm sure if our rookies were in a team that contained Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, Bateman, Franklin Roughead Sewell etc, they'd play pretty well too.

Morton has started very well, as has Martin, Garland in his 3rd year, Jetta/Bennel have looked good in pieces. It's not helping us at the moment because we have no leaders.

You're not supporting the team by instigating this theory that we're losing because we're not "putting in" or trying hard enough.

And I suppose Hawthorn's injuries have nothing to do with their 0-2 start...

I understand you point, but comparing Hawthorn's 0-2 start to ours is not a realistic comparison. We are supporting our team, but we have a different point of view as to the culture which exist at present.

It is true, we lack leaders and that is the problem, but if our kids keep getting flogged, it will affects their confidence. It is time for the "older" guys to really stand up and fly the flag.

Look at Essendon on Sunday. Zaharakis plays his first game and is best on ground and Quinn, who has barely touched an Aussie rules football was more than servicable. I believe we need to take similar risks with some of our picks.

  45hotgod said:

Lol, Cyril Rioli played a blinder as an 18 year old, so surely a team of 18 year olds would collectively all play blinders.

Absolutely naive point of view. I'm sure if our rookies were in a team that contained Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, Bateman, Franklin Roughead Sewell etc, they'd play pretty well too.

Morton has started very well, as has Martin, Garland in his 3rd year, Jetta/Bennel have looked good in pieces. It's not helping us at the moment because we have no leaders.

You're not supporting the team by instigating this theory that we're losing because we're not "putting in" or trying hard enough.

And I suppose Hawthorn's injuries have nothing to do with their 0-2 start...

I am merely saying the game is getting younger on the field & used Rioli as an example. An 18 year old is capable of playing top line football. And considering the team has been training since October last year i expected a little better than last saturdays second Half.

We still have a lot of senior players on our list so i think the Fade out in the 2nd Half was a very Bad sign as in the First Q the Boys showed us all that they can mix it with a good side.

  45hotgod said:

I, for one, am just glad we were able to establish a winning culture through this match

Imagine how much worse we'd be today had we lost that match... my god, we might even be sitting on zero wins right now

  iv said:

I understand you point, but comparing Hawthorn's 0-2 start to ours is not a realistic comparison. We are supporting our team, but we have a different point of view as to the culture which exist at present.

It is true, we lack leaders and that is the problem, but if our kids keep getting flogged, it will affects their confidence. It is time for the "older" guys to really stand up and fly the flag.

Look at Essendon on Sunday. Zaharakis plays his first game and is best on ground and Quinn, who has barely touched an Aussie rules football was more than servicable. I believe we need to take similar risks with some of our picks.

Correct Some of our older players don't play out a full game & with that attitude we will always be as successful as we have been in the last 45 years. Some of our older players are being over paid maybe & have been for a while.

I agree also with your Essendon point. No reason why one of our 18 year olds cannot be BOG at some stage.