Ah! Rounds 21 and 22.

The FF line reads Yze, White, Holland.

Newton has shin soreness, Miller bumped someone and gets a two week holiday given his past record and let's say Wonna lost his footing at Telstra Dome and has a wonky ankle.

No need for a motorcade.

Ah! Rounds 21 and 22.

The FF line reads Yze, White, Holland.

Newton has shin soreness, Miller bumped someone and gets a two week holiday given his past record and let's say Wonna lost his footing at Telstra Dome and has a wonky ankle.

No need for a motorcade.

And risk an injury to retiring players where the Club could be up for 50% of the final year salary for the injured player in 2009. Forget it!

The motorcade would be far safer and cheaper.

And risk an injury to retiring players where the Club could be up for 50% of the final year salary for the injured player in 2009. Forget it!

The motorcade would be far safer and cheaper.

Ben Holland is named as one of about a dozen interchange players in Sandringham's team for Sunday. That list will be reduced by four when the final Melbourne side is announced and one additional player is also likely to go west. As for Benny, will he or won't he?

i think the problem with doing that is that it indicates he wont play again, and therefore can argue that the injury ended his career.

we need to keep selecting him so that at the end of it all, it was his choice not to play, not ours to sack him.

i wonder what would happen if he was selected for the mfc this week? would he put his hand up, pull on the red socks? maybe we could do that, get him to warm up, then pull a late change on him...

Deanox, the doctors have already declared him fit. If he really wanted to make a claim for a career-ending injury he's better off lining up for Sandy and then forcing an injury on himself. But that would be plain dumb. I think he's not playing himself for the very reason that he doesn't want to incur an injury.

He's an ageing borderline player and has been for a number of years. How could he possibly make any sort of claim that a dislocated shoulder ended his career?

I reckon Mark Stevens is sniffing around on the back of his other legal battles. There is no story here.

In the event there is one, the correct course of action is as you and Rhino have already suggested.

As long as our medicos keep declaring him fit to play. He should not be entitled to payment for a "career ending injury."

Correct. Cant wait for 2009 when we will be clear of all this crap and have gotten rid of a few more old timers. Should be exciting! :D

While old Hymie is a player I have not enjoyed watching at all in Melb colours I don't think you could ever questions his committement. He had one of the worst shoulder dislocations I have ever seen last year when that rather rotund Pie fell on him. I thought nup that is it for him he will not come back from that, to my surprise and slight disappointment he did and from reports the other players and coaches think he is great to have a round as he works as hard as anyone around the club.

While is is not someone I'll remember fondly at Melb I think he should be cut a bit of slack, especially when he was able to, twice a year, play games of his life against the ferals ha ha.

hhmmmm Holland making sure he was right to come back and has a big game..... Interesting that.

"Ben Holland - looked like he was going to spoil Sautner's big day when he was plucking marks from everywhere in the first quarter. Continued to dominate in the air as Tassie had no answers to his size and strength. Very good first game back, ending up with four majors."

Just play him in the seniors for the rest of the year and plunk him the goal sqaure. I know this goes against our youth policy, but how good a target was he against Hawthorn? Our forward line is impotent at the moment, and with due respect to Miller, he's not a J Brown who can do it all on his own.

Bring Dutchy in, so our forward line can add some bite and give the opposition something to think about.

It says it all when Freo had the luxury of sending McPharlin (their no 1 defender) up forward because we don't have a full forward.

Just play him in the seniors for the rest of the year and plunk him the goal sqaure. I know this goes against our youth policy, but how good a target was he against Hawthorn? Our forward line is impotent at the moment, and with due respect to Miller, he's not a J Brown who can do it all on his own.

Bring Dutchy in, so our forward line can add some bite and give the opposition something to think about.

It says it all when Freo had the luxury of sending McPharlin (their no 1 defender) up forward because we don't have a full forward.

Its says it all when Freo have been doing that arrangement for years now. Freo have Chris Tarrant and thus dont have a full forward either.

With 6 rounds to go why would you play twilight player who has played 1 game in the past 4 weeks against a sub par under manned opposition. Absolutely no value whatsoever.

This is the time you want to see what works for 2009 and beyond and not disappear in the past.

As frustrating as he is we should persevere with Newton rather than Dutchy.

As frustrating as he is we should persevere with Newton rather than Dutchy.

Why not have both? When Dutchy played in rd 9 V Hawthorn, he shared the goal square with Robbo, and that worked quite well to an extent.

Just put him down there, deep in the square to educate and provide guidance to Newton and take a valuable defender away from the likes of Miller, Bate or Newton.

I'm in the USA and I can tell from here that our forward line is not working at the moment. We struggle to kick 10 goals!

I take your point about Holland being in the 'twilight' but I believe our forward line would improve with the addition of #4.

Holland's last 3 games played in the forward line:

Rd 18 2007 V Sydney - 3 goals

Rd 19 2007 V Dogs - 4 goals

Rd 9 2008 V Hawthorn - 3 goals

Pretty good output if you ask me!

His opponents probably each had 20 touches and a half dozen rebound 50s though. Better off putting PJ or Jamar down there for a rest if you want a long bomb option. Juice has been spending plenty of time at Sandy and I'm sure Sautner would be looking after him as far as on field coaching goes so he won't lose out there, not to mention if Neitz hangs around as a forward coach

I'm in the USA and I can tell from here that our forward line is not working at the moment.

I'm Australia and I can tell you that an underdone, immobile and twilight Holland is not what we need. The days of the immobile large forward are gone. Holland is finished. We need to find more plausible solutions given where the game is going.

Juice has been spending plenty of time at Sandy and I'm sure Sautner would be looking after him as far as on field coaching goes so he won't lose out there, not to mention if Neitz hangs around as a forward coach

Sautner looks after Sautner.

Sautner looks after Sautner.

Sautner has fantastic passion and desire to win.

Sautner has fantastic passion and desire to win.

......and plays for Sautner in the process. He is not a team player and not a on field mentor by any stretch of Newton.

......and plays for Sautner in the process. He is not a team player and not a on field mentor by any stretch of Newton.

Agree, you could see on Sunday he was spewing when Holland or even Maric got infront of him and took a mark.

......and plays for Sautner in the process. He is not a team player and not a on field mentor by any stretch of Newton.

I disagree. I have been to the quarter time huddles on numerous occasions at Sandy this year and he is extremely positive and passionate for the team as is his interaction with the younger brigade.

Sure he has an ego, so does everyone, and loves kicking a goal, so do a lot of people. He serves the team to the best of his ability and does what he thinks is best for the team.

I'd rather a passionate and fired up prima donna than simply a prima donna.

Agree, you could see on Sunday he was spewing when Holland or even Maric got infront of him and took a mark.

I'd think you'd find most leading full forwards would feel the same way.

I'd think you'd find most leading full forwards would feel the same way.

Not like old Saunts.

Fev or Richo anyone?

I disagree. I have been to the quarter time huddles on numerous occasions at Sandy this year and he is extremely positive and passionate for the team as is his interaction with the younger brigade.

Sure he has an ego, so does everyone, and loves kicking a goal, so do a lot of people. He serves the team to the best of his ability and does what he thinks is best for the team.

I'd rather a passionate and fired up prima donna than simply a prima donna.

Spot on Stigga, this guy bleeds for the club more than anyone else on the zebras list, maybe besides Chad Lidell. You've only gotta goto any 1/4 time or 3/4 time huddle, and it will be Sauntner doing all the talking anf firing up. Same with on-field, look beyond the initial petulance if a pass isnt spot on (which you would say a common trait amongst full-forwards Richo, Fev, Hall, JBrown etc), and you'll see he's one of the lodest and most influential out there, I've got no doubt he'd be an assistant coach straight away after he retires. Newton should aspire to gain the ruthless edge that makes Saunts as successful as he has been.

Fev or Richo anyone?

No way.

Fev or Richo anyone?

So how are Saunts, Fev and Richo good coaching mentors for young players?

It just illustrates how ridiculous your notion was that selfish players are good on field coaches.

Fev is an idiot but I've got no doubt Richo is a good mentor for the younger players despite his onfield antics.

I was referring to whoever said Sautner gives the best sprays of all the full forwards

Spot on Stigga, this guy bleeds for the club more than anyone else on the zebras list, maybe besides Chad Lidell. You've only gotta goto any 1/4 time or 3/4 time huddle, and it will be Sauntner doing all the talking anf firing up. Same with on-field, look beyond the initial petulance if a pass isnt spot on (which you would say a common trait amongst full-forwards Richo, Fev, Hall, JBrown etc), and you'll see he's one of the lodest and most influential out there, I've got no doubt he'd be an assistant coach straight away after he retires. Newton should aspire to gain the ruthless edge that makes Saunts as successful as he has been.

Its a slur on unsung heroes that are hard workers like Gallagher etc dont "bleed for the jumper" like players who are animated and extroverts. Its bull.

Saunts is a VFL hack that has benefitted from the largesse of VFL competent MFC players that have given him great use of the footy. He is expert at the easy receive possession and the first person to ignore a player by hand or foot in a better position sometimes to the detriment of the side.

In the case of Hall, Fev and Richo where there selfishness or frustration goes overboard (and it does too often) it has been incredibly destructive to the team.

Given where Newton is the last thing we need him to do is master Saunts selfishness and short cuts. You can do it at VFL. You cant at AFL. And its not as if Saunts would mentor anyone outside fulfilling his own needs.