Lynden Dunn....a dilemma

[re draft molan 1]

Dunn did a fantastic stopping job today, and should be highly commended for it.

However on two occasions he failed to act when it was required of him, resulting directly in goals to Sydney. Each of these transgressions was worthy of a place in Sandringham next week.

What should we do?

I think I know.

Saw the one in the last 1/4. I did cringe. But I took a different view of it. Perhaps players are second guessing themselves in situations like these due to the AFL's tough and incosistent stance on head high contact. Dunno. Hope so for Dunny's sake.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Unfortunately he's an habitual offender.

I'd be disappointed if he wasn't dropped despite his good game. Coaches need to create a culture where those sorts of acts aren't tolerated. It's a bit different to Morton doing it as an 18 year old in his first game. Mind you he'd want to eradicate it pretty quickly or I'd expect the same punishment.

I'll be interested to see what Bailey stands for this week. I'll know when I see the teams read out.

I absolutely agree that he needs to get better in this area. It is not acceptable for players not to put their bodies on the line when they have to.

However I really don't think that dropping him is going to achieve very much. What it comes down to is courage and self preservation. If you drop him to the VFL will he suddenly become braver? IMO a talk with the coach, maybe a chat with David Neitz, will do a hell of a lot more than dropping him.

I don't think that he doesn't put his body on the line or squibs contests because he is selfish. If his attitude was the problem, then you'd certainly drop him. But if what he lacks is the confidence in his body and the courage to go in, then that really won't change no matter which level of football he is playing. All it takes is putting yourself in one contest, getting hurt but getting up, to eradicate that fear. It's a bit like when you teach a child not to touch a hot stove. You can yell at them everytime they get near a stove, but if they actually hurt themselves you can bet they are never touching that thing again!

He needs to make a conscious effort to become more physical, as it clearly doesn't come naturally to him. This is something that he will hopefully learn overtime, it certainly can't be taught in a weekend at Sandy.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If you drop him to the VFL will he suddenly become braver?

I don't think that he doesn't put his body on the line or squibs contests because he is selfish. If his attitude was the problem, then you'd certainly drop him.

Not necessarily. But it clearly steps out what is and what is not acceptable if he wants to succeed at AFL level.

Whether he is selfish or not is not the issue. The fact is he does it does and needs to break the habit. And its an attitude issue and he needs to change.

This is not the first time and he would have a had chats about it before. I think it is now beyond a chat and he needs to be accountable for it.....for the sake of his career.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

Can anyone recall if the Cats dropped Josh Hunt for his famous head ducking incident a couple of seaons ago?

I am not sure if he was, but i know that the Cats won a flag the next year with Hunt an integeral part of the team.

I can understand the arguments for dropping him, however a highlighting of his ways in front of his teamates when doing the video review of the game i would have thought would be sufficient. Dropping him would really just be appeasing those outside the club walls calling for his head.

Just as when a coach tells a player that they like his attack on the ball but if his continual poor disposal continues he will get dropped, i think the same would happen in reverse.

[Hannabal 4]

I can understand the arguments for dropping him, however a highlighting of his ways in front of his teamates when doing the video review of the game i would have thought would be sufficient. Dropping him would really just be appeasing those outside the club walls calling for his head.

He's a serial offender. I've been complaining about this element of his game for over 2 years.

When do actions speak louder than words ?

[timD 994]

The time at Sandy has recently seemed to be part of a resurgence in CJ - by all reports his attack on the game is 1000% better. He's been several yars in the system. Dunn is being taught a new role and has time. It is a positive thing IF he can learn from being dropped.

[occo 2]

The issue i have is that Dunn is a forward, not a midfielder. Perhaps DB and ND see more than i do putting him in the middle of the ground but for me, his strengths are his pace and goal kicking. Last year he showed in a number of games the ability to kick long range goals from CHF. I really think we are more dangerious with him playing forward and Bate moving to a midfield role. I hope DB doesent make Dunn the new Green

[Hannabal 4]

Dunn is being taught a new role and has time. It is a positive thing IF he can learn from being dropped.

My dog is nearly 13 and still dark on me for changing her food to the Hill's Science diet about 6 months ago. The upshot is she's lost 4 kilos and runs around like her old self. People are amazed when we tell them her age. Although she still looks dirty at us when the scraps go in the bin.

Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind

[Jarka 767]

someone needs to bookmark this...

lol, go right ahead.

Two seasons ago I went against the tide here on demonland and made the statement that he wasn't, and probably will never be, a key forward. Most people disagreed (very agressively) but I was proven to be correct. He's been in the AFL system now for four seasons, four uninspiring seasons. He's yet to find a position that he excels at, he's doing reasonably ok as a tagger however he doesn't get anywhere near enough disposals, and in modern footy run-with players also need to hurt the opposition goign the other way. His disposal isn't fantastic, he doesn't have the footy nous to win the ball and he has also shown a tendacy to pull out of a contest.

As I said earlier if he makes it it's a bonus, but I'm happy for the club to persevere with him for the rest of the year but his long term future doesn't look good unless he completely reinvents himself.

[Nasher 33,607]

I hope DB doesent make Dunn the new Green

If DB makes Dunn the new Green I will be over the moon.

[deanox 9,898]

The issue i have is that Dunn is a forward, not a midfielder. Perhaps DB and ND see more than i do putting him in the middle of the ground but for me, his strengths are his pace and goal kicking. Last year he showed in a number of games the ability to kick long range goals from CHF. I really think we are more dangerious with him playing forward and Bate moving to a midfield role. I hope DB doesent make Dunn the new Green

dunn has not shown any ability to mark in packs, or under physical pressure. his overhead marking has not been a stand out trait either, and he hasnt shown any nous to lead into space ie he doesnt pop into the right areas out of nowhere. he also doesnt have the body strength to be a traditional KPP. he doesnt have a great leap, or scinilating pace that could make him an effective small or medium forward, and he doesnt seem to have a knack of being were the ball falls like a crumber ie wonnameri.

on the other hand, he has shown that he has an above average engine, pretty good pace of the mark, the ability to stop high profile opposition. basically his height and strength are greater than the average midfielder even he still has the running attributes to be one.

why do you think he is better suited to playing forward than in the midfield?

[Doggo 32]

why do you think he is better suited to playing forward than in the midfield?

Its a very good question.

I liked Dunn very early in his career, but i must say i've lost a lot of my enthusiasm for him. He had a very good game on Goodes, but, as has been much talked about already, blotted his sheet with some rather 'soft' attack on the contest.

You're very right- his strengths/attributes don't equate well to him playing forward, and like Ling (who started as an NQR KP forward with a big engine), a midfield stopping role seems a natural progression for him away from the forward line. I think he's done some very good tagging jobs this year, but as of yet has not been able to gather more than 15 disposals in a match on the counter, and being a tall midfielder, doesnt show enough courage or conviction in the air when dropping back inside defensive 50.

Trouble is, other than playing in that completely negative role in the midfield, he has not shown any other real glimpses that he may actually become a productive offensive run-with player in the future, like Ling, or even in fact, a productive player. I'm reluctant to write him off, because i see he has talent, but he doesnt strike me as a natural enough midfielder to win his own footy, not instinctive enough, and, as you said, he's NQR when played as a tall forward.

[H_T 3,043]

SQUIBBED: This does not happen in Leigh Matthews teams when he is coaching. You must put your head over the ball. Look at Luke Power did anyone see his game. I wish someone would do that at melbourne. Nathan Jones is the only one I have seen do this time and time again this season. Brock Mclean on occasions.

[Doggo 32]

You must put your head over the ball.

I wish someone would do that at melbourne. Nathan Jones is the only one I have seen do this time and time again this season. Brock Mclean on occasions.

I've never known Matthew Whelan, Brent Moloney or James McDonald to squib the contest or not put their head over the ball, ever.

I read on here recently that Junior may have done it once as a youngster and quickly learned from it. He is now one of our most courageous players and has been for years.

The above three IMO, along with Jones and McLean, are the guys on our team that absolutely never, EVER refuse to put their neck on the line for the team. Dunn needs to take a leaf out of their's, or someone like our Nathan Brown's book, when it comes to courage and selflessness.

[Tim 3,413]

Interesting to read in the MFC Coaches' Report today that they were "really happy" with Lynden Dunn's performance on Sunday, but that Adem Yze had been dropped because "some parts of his game against Richmond were not up to team standards". So the (at least 3) examples of Adem fumbling or avoiding physical contact under pressure have been held accountable, but LD's lack of pressure has not drawn the same public airing. I guess we don't know what the in-house assessment threw up.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Interesting to read in the MFC Coaches' Report today that they were "really happy" with Lynden Dunn's performance on Sunday, but that Adem Yze had been dropped because "some parts of his game against Richmond were not up to team standards". So the (at least 3) examples of Adem fumbling or avoiding physical contact under pressure have been held accountable, but LD's lack of pressure has not drawn the same public airing. I guess we don't know what the in-house assessment threw up.

On the positive side LD's game was pretty good notwithstanding the contentious issues. Yze was poor against the Tigers and his events of fumbling and avoiding contact were the most notable part of his performance. Yze was rightly demoted and its been 4 years overdue for accountability for those issues. Its notable Yze was neither here nor there against Sandy on the weekend

[H_T 3,043]

If you want to be part of the team you must put your body on the line. Yze is out because he is not doing this after 269 games. Dunn has less than 40 games, and is still learning his trade. That is why he is selected.

[Rogue 585]

Regarding the midfield v forward debate:

Dunn hopes he is capable of emulating the Geelong star's [edit: Ling's]development as a player capable of wielding plenty of influence on the field.

"Early in his career, like where I am now, he was more a lock-down player and not worrying about the ball as much, so that's where I'm at.

"But I've got to build on that as my career progresses and learn that caper, so he is someone I look at."

- MFC site

[w00dy 146]

Regarding the midfield v forward debate:

- MFC site

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/tabid/7415/D...px?newsid=62073

i liked this interview... he knows where he is at and what he's trying to acheive...

[donny williams no 25 0]

This surprises me. I think he's arguably the greatest talent on the list, and the present "run-with" role is designed to give him more football smarts.No way he'll be dropped and in a couple of years will be a star!

I understand what you're saying I'm all for playing Dunn however I wouldn't put him in the skillful category.

Dunn is most likely going to be a lost cause, I just can't see him playing at a great level to be in our next finals push. This year though we've got a great opportunity, not many teams can afford to play a group of players who are not up to it, hopefully with some confidence and luck he can get better. If he does it will be a great bonus, but I won't be shocked if he doesn't.

[Doggo 32]

This surprises me. I think he's arguably the greatest talent on the list, and the present "run-with" role is designed to give him more football smarts.No way he'll be dropped and in a couple of years will be a star!

How so?

He has shown himself to be no more than just average in all facets of the game, except in his negative stopping roles.

Either you've seen or know something i don't know, or you've grossly over-rated Lynden... I think he may well become a 100+ gamer and a very good footballer at the club. But, a 'star'? No.

I'm happy for him to prove me wrong, i just don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever.

[tooly 0]

His only 21 people, give him a go.

[Doggo 32]

His only 21 people, give him a go.

I'm not against giving him a go. In fact i'm all for it, but he must improve the physical side of his game if he's to be any good. I find it staggering the unrealistic expectations some people have given he hasn't shown anything so far to suggest he will be a 'star'. The greatest talent on the list? No chance. I'll be happy if he (and expect he does) develops into a good, solid player. Any more than that i think is a bonus given where his career is at right now.

Having said that, if he continues to do well tagging and starts winning his own ball, lifts his physicality and intensity, he maybe even become a very good player who has a long fruitful 150+ game career... but a star of the competition? He has a loong waay to go still, and i dont expect him to ever reach those heights... I think it would b unfair on him to.

[DeeMfc 621]

If Dunn can learn not to squib a contest he will be one of the best taggers in the competition.

He has all the attributes.

He can also run off his opponent and kick goals.

Give him the rest of this year with this role to prove himself.

Allow Dunn and Bartram to develop into solid taggers who can run off thier players at the right times.

Dunn to take the talls, Barts to take the smaller mids.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

If Dunn can learn not to squib a contest he will be one of the best taggers in the competition.

He has all the attributes.

He can also run off his opponent and kick goals.

Give him the rest of this year with this role to prove himself.

Allow Dunn and Bartram to develop into solid taggers who can run off thier players at the right times.

Dunn to take the talls, Barts to take the smaller mids.

Dunn took the smaller statured Foley when we played the Tigers, so i wouldn't be surprised to see him go with Simon Black this weekend who is a similar player, and who towelled us up at the Gabba earlier this year.