Anyone for cricket?

[P-man 13,366]

It's gettable, but the weaker tail we have in this lineup could end up being the difference between a win and a loss.

I just hope Khawaja makes some runs in this innings.

[titan_uranus 24,969]

Well I genuinely didn't think I'd wake up after it was raining over lunch to find we'd been bowled out.

I should have known better.

[jazza 1,323]

at least in the 5th test we get 2 extra drs to use

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Been out of action for the last few days sorry everyone with a bad case of the cold, probably from all these late nights! haha.

What a horrible result, from 0/109 to be all out for 224 with another horrible batting display is a very poor performance indeed. We got a few stiff lbw calls on that last day where we got some 50/50 ones go against our batsmen where as the 50/50 call on the last day involving Bresnan when he was only on 12 went their way and he ended up making 45.

A big factor in this match was the bottom 4 of each team in the 2nd dig. We saw Bresnan, Broad, Swann & Anderson compile 88 runs between them in their 2nd innings compared to Siddle, Harris, Lyon & Bird making 43. That's 45 runs of the eventual 74 run deficit right there.

With the series now lost I'd look at making 4 changes for this last test with an eye to the future and also to get an idea of which players to persist with heading into our summer. First of all our two main quicks Siddle & Harris should be rested from the Oval. No use playing them in a dead rubber at the risk of them picking up an injury after long campaigns and potentially ruling them out of our series. Watto I'd leave out as it seems likely he wont be able to bowl and I think we can all agree that he doesn't make enough runs to justify selection as a batsman. And finally I'd leave Haddin out as he hasn't really delivered. He's made 2 50's in 8 innings and while his keepings been ok I wouldn't say it's been anything phenominal. And he was very ordinary at Lords.

So I'd bring in Wade, Faulkner, Starc & Agar for the final test at The Oval where the ball always spins.

C. Rogers

D. Warner

U. Khawaja

M. Clarke*

S. Smith

+M. Wade

J. Faulkner

A. Agar

M. Starc

N. Lyon

J. Bird

12th man Phil Hughes

Big test match for Khawaja as if he doesn't produce here one Nic Maddinson could be pushing for his spot come the GABBA test. Steve Smith also needs to take the bull by the horns and start to produce some consistent cricket, as he's shown a bit but nowhere near enough to secure his position. Clarke & Rogers pick themselves and it was good to see Warner make some 2nd innings runs.

Matthew Wade gets another opportunity to show he's improved his glove work and confirm what we already know in that he's a much better batsman then Haddin. And James Faulkner gets an opportunity at 7 as the all rounder who'll bowl first change. He has a lot of promise this kid and I reckon has a bright future. He's already a very good bowler and his batting is improving significantly.

Mitchell Starc given an opportunity to lead an inexperienced attack with the new ball and Jackson Bird to bowl into the breeze. Gives these two a chance to stake their claim for the 3rd seamers spot for the GABBA test ahead of James Pattinson or Pat Cummins. Nathan Lyon rightfully retains his spot after a very good test match and Ashton Agar to come back into the XI to play spin twin to Nathan Lyon, having one spinner to spin the ball into the right handers and the other to spin it away from them.

A very inexperienced XI that will likely loose but I think would also answer a lot of important questions that need to be raised before our summer.

Other peoples thoughts?

[jazza 1,323]

said before start of series

haddin backstop

thinhk your right about sids, harris

nearly cooked is watto

kalwaja, just wants to go home, maybe best if a leader tells him to suck it up and play 5th test

hope rogers is explaining to hughes /kawalja the art of patience and grit

and yes like macca you write better than most

btw rr that article of chappelis speaks of field placement captaincy. not leadership

Edited August 13, 2013 by jazza

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Been out of action for the last few days sorry everyone with a bad case of the cold, probably from all these late nights! haha.

What a horrible result, from 0/109 to be all out for 224 with another horrible batting display is a very poor performance indeed. We got a few stiff lbw calls on that last day where we got some 50/50 ones go against our batsmen where as the 50/50 call on the last day involving Bresnan when he was only on 12 went their way and he ended up making 45.

A big factor in this match was the bottom 4 of each team in the 2nd dig. We saw Bresnan, Broad, Swann & Anderson compile 88 runs between them in their 2nd innings compared to Siddle, Harris, Lyon & Bird making 43. That's 45 runs of the eventual 74 run deficit right there.

With the series now lost I'd look at making 4 changes for this last test with an eye to the future and also to get an idea of which players to persist with heading into our summer. First of all our two main quicks Siddle & Harris should be rested from the Oval. No use playing them in a dead rubber at the risk of them picking up an injury after long campaigns and potentially ruling them out of our series. Watto I'd leave out as it seems likely he wont be able to bowl and I think we can all agree that he doesn't make enough runs to justify selection as a batsman. And finally I'd leave Haddin out as he hasn't really delivered. He's made 2 50's in 8 innings and while his keepings been ok I wouldn't say it's been anything phenominal. And he was very ordinary at Lords.

So I'd bring in Wade, Faulkner, Starc & Agar for the final test at The Oval where the ball always spins.

C. Rogers

D. Warner

U. Khawaja

M. Clarke*

S. Smith

+M. Wade

J. Faulkner

A. Agar

M. Starc

N. Lyon

J. Bird

12th man Phil Hughes

Big test match for Khawaja as if he doesn't produce here one Nic Maddinson could be pushing for his spot come the GABBA test. Steve Smith also needs to take the bull by the horns and start to produce some consistent cricket, as he's shown a bit but nowhere near enough to secure his position. Clarke & Rogers pick themselves and it was good to see Warner make some 2nd innings runs.

Matthew Wade gets another opportunity to show he's improved his glove work and confirm what we already know in that he's a much better batsman then Haddin. And James Faulkner gets an opportunity at 7 as the all rounder who'll bowl first change. He has a lot of promise this kid and I reckon has a bright future. He's already a very good bowler

Other peoples thoughts?

It's bit of a misnomer when you want to blame the last 4 batsmen relative their peers for losing the test when the failure has been the top six ( particularly the middle order). Of the batting, only Rogers and Clarke can hold their heads above water. All the other have averages hovering in the mid 20s. It's not good enough. And is bizarre Haddin at 7 gets crucified when his record was comparable to the above.

The question is when the call was for batsman to stand up and be counted who did and who didn't? I know Khawaja Smith and Watson didn't.

I can't believe a player like Watson who averages only 27 with the bat and 78 with the ball is seen as a critical member of the side. Flawed technique and an inability to address it, at 32 he must be on the way out, injured or not. Got to be question marks on Smith and Khawaja. If Khawaja isn't happy on the English tour ( and I'm not sure where this piece of fantasy comes from) then it's the 2nd tour he's cracked the dads and not produced. See ya.

Disappointing that we did not back Harris's great work up with bat and ball. Siddle and Bird bowled very poorly with the 2nd new ball and lost their heads. It's outrageous that Clarke was forced to bowl Lyon after 11 overs with the new ball.

And a 70 run loss is loss by degrees. A dropped catch cost us 14 runs, dumb bowling cost us 40 or so and there is a big ? on Bresnan not playing a shot in front of his stumps and given not out. Nevertheless 300 was a big ask even though Rogers and Warner gave us the start.

My changes:

In Starc, Faulkner

Out: Harris ( if he needs a rest, otherwise he plays) Watson.

If the Oval is turning we should use Smith and get some value out of him rather Agar.

We should be using the Oval Test with a focus on the Gabba.

[Nasher 33,607]

Agree on those changes, Rhino.

Would also like to add some man love for Ryan Harris. Considering that at 30 he looked a journeyman Shield bowler who had never been and would never be anywhere near Test cricket, his rise to first rate international bowler is amazing. His bowling Test average is superior to his first class record, and his batting is comparable. Let's just hope the string and chewy holding his body together can hold out a year or two more.

[Macca 16,903]

Putting the team for the Oval Test aside (in some ways it's not altogether relevant for the make-up of the team for the 1st Test in Brisbane)

... it's hard to know where to start with the make-up of the XI going forward (for the 1st Test in Brisbane) Obviously our batting is our main issue and if Clarke, Rogers and probably Warner are the mainstays, then that leaves 3 spots up for grabs. I maintain one of our batsman needs to fill the 5th bowlers spot so it's Henriques or Watson to bat at no. 6. (Maxwell, Faulkner and Mitchell Marsh have a fair bit of improvement to do to challenge for the same spot)

We need a no.3 and a no.5. They could bring in Maddinson or Burns but it might be best to ease either of them into the team down the order. If the selectors only bring in one new player then maybe Shaun Marsh gets another chance at no.3. But who knows which way the selectors will go? They might decide to persevere with 6 of the current 8 batsmen in England.

As for the keeper, at some stage in the not too distant future Brad Haddin needs to be replaced and maybe Tim Paine will ultimately come in. I'd keep Brad in the team for now as he does provide good experience and he is the vice-captain. Haddin could be our keeper up until at least to the end of the South African tour. The keeper should nearly always bat at no.7 (ideally)

The fast bowling stocks are very good and with a fit Pattinson and Cummins we're well placed in that area. (although Cummins has broken down with another injury apparently) ... Pat Cummins' injury sees him leave Australia A tour

Lyon stays and his bowling in this current Test has been very good. Reckon that Ahmed will get his opportunity soon enough though so Lyon needs to maintain his form.

Team for the Brisbane Test

Rogers

Warner

S Marsh

Clarke

Maddinson

Henriques/Watson

Haddin

Pattinson

Siddle

Harris

Lyon

As for the make-up of the team for the Oval Test, there could be a few changes and maybe a couple of our batsmen can save their careers. A century by any of our batsmen with a question mark against them will probably be required (and maybe a big 100) Hughes may get another chance at no.3 and Cowan could get a call up as well. If Watson isn't passed fit they might replace him with a batsman only.

Wouldn't be surprised if they rested Harris and/or Siddle for Starc and/or Faulkner but it depends on whether the selectors use the game for experimentation or they pick the best XI. If they pick the best XI then Harris and Siddle have to play.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

It's bit of a misnomer when you want to blame the last 4 batsmen relative their peers for losing the test when the failure has been the top six ( particularly the middle order). Of the batting, only Rogers and Clarke can hold their heads above water. All the other have averages hovering in the mid 20s. It's not good enough. And is bizarre Haddin at 7 gets crucified when his record was comparable to the above.

Sorry Rhino didn't mean for it to sound like I was blaming those 4 for the loss, just that runs from the tail in the 2nd innings went some way towards the loss. You're right though that's it's the top 7's job to get the runs, not the lower order, but every run out of them sure does help.

Putting the team for the Oval Test aside (in some ways it's not altogether relevant for the make-up of the team for the 1st Test in Brisbane)

... it's hard to know where to start with the make-up of the XI going forward (for the 1st Test in Brisbane) Obviously our batting is our main issue and if Clarke, Rogers and probably Warner are the mainstays, then that leaves 3 spots up for grabs. I maintain one of our batsman needs to fill the 5th bowlers spot so it's Henriques or Watson to bat at no. 6. (Maxwell, Faulkner and Mitchell Marsh have a fair bit of improvement to do to challenge for the same spot)

We need a no.3 and a no.5. They could bring in Maddinson or Burns but it might be best to ease either of them into the team down the order. If the selectors only bring in one new player then maybe Shaun Marsh gets another chance at no.3. But who knows which way the selectors will go? They might decide to persevere with 6 of the current 8 batsmen in England.

As for the keeper, at some stage in the not too distant future Brad Haddin needs to be replaced and maybe Tim Paine will ultimately come in. I'd keep Brad in the team for now as he does provide good experience and he is the vice-captain. Haddin could be our keeper up until at least to the end of the South African tour. The keeper should nearly always bat at no.7 (ideally)

The fast bowling stocks are very good and with a fit Pattinson and Cummins we're well placed in that area. (although Cummins has broken down with another injury apparently) ... Pat Cummins' injury sees him leave Australia A tour

Lyon stays and his bowling in this current Test has been very good. Reckon that Ahmed will get his opportunity soon enough though so Lyon needs to maintain his form.

Team for the Brisbane Test

Rogers

Warner

S Marsh

Clarke

Maddinson

Henriques/Watson

Haddin

Pattinson

Siddle

Harris

Lyon

As for the make-up of the team for the Oval Test, there could be a few changes and maybe a couple of our batsmen can save their careers. A century by any of our batsmen with a question mark against them will probably be required (and maybe a big 100) Hughes may get another chance at no.3 and Cowan could get a call up as well. If Watson isn't passed fit they might replace him with a batsman only.

Wouldn't be surprised if they rested Harris and/or Siddle for Starc and/or Faulkner but it depends on whether the selectors use the game for experimentation or they pick the best XI. If they pick the best XI then Harris and Siddle have to play.

Usually love your work Macca, but please no Shaun Marsh! The guy can barely make a run at first class level and he's alreafy about 30. If we're going to pick someone with an average like that at least make it someone young with some improvement in the.

Marsh is a very good ODI & T20 player, but that's where it ends for me.

[Macca 16,903]

Usually love your work Macca, but please no Shaun Marsh! The guy can barely make a run at first class level and he's alreafy about 30. If we're going to pick someone with an average like that at least make it someone young with some improvement in the.

Marsh is a very good ODI & T20 player, but that's where it ends for me.

You know what TD? You're probably right but what are our other choices? Those who have had a go all come into the same category ... not really good enough! Is Marsh any worse than half of the batsmen in England at the moment? Shuffling the deck chairs?

Hughes, Khawaja, Smith or Cowan could stay for now but I'm not sure any of those 4 are the answer going forward. If it was me I'd be biting the bullet and bringing in 2 new young batsmen (England have done it with Root and Bairstow) but I doubt whether the selectors would take the risk with 2 new young players as part of the top order. Maddinson could be given a chance at no.3 and Burns at no.5 but that would be quite a radical move. However, I'd be quite surprised if we didn't see at least one new batsman for the Brisbane Test.

I also can't see the Selectors going away from having the keeper batting at no.7 either (although they might do it for the Oval Test) Faulkner would have to bat too high for his batting ability if he was slotted in at no.6. And that brings us back to Watson. If they replace him with a 'like for like' then that brings an inexperienced batsman/bowler in to bat at no.6. Henriques is probably our next best choice but he's no world beater either. I'd give Moises a go all the same.

But getting back to Marsh, he showed a bit when he first came into the side and then went off the boil. I suppose I'm using the Australia A side as a guide and if those players are next cabs off the rank, then Marsh is in the mix. Doolan was part of the Australia A team so maybe he'll get an opportunity.

Who knows???

[Macca 16,903]

said before start of series

haddin backstop

thinhk your right about sids, harris

nearly cooked is watto

kalwaja, just wants to go home, maybe best if a leader tells him to suck it up and play 5th test

hope rogers is explaining to hughes /kawalja the art of patience and grit

and yes like macca you write better than most

btw rr that article of chappelis speaks of field placement captaincy. not leadership

So what do ya reckon jazza?

A partial rebuild, a total rebuild or a rebuild of the rebuild! Dare I say it ... "It is what it is"

Maybe CA can give the MFC a call (or walk across the road for a chat) and find out all about those rebuilds

[dee-luded 2,959]

Been out of action for the last few days sorry everyone with a bad case of the cold, probably from all these late nights! haha.

What a horrible result, from 0/109 to be all out for 224 with another horrible batting display is a very poor performance indeed. We got a few stiff lbw calls on that last day where we got some 50/50 ones go against our batsmen where as the 50/50 call on the last day involving Bresnan when he was only on 12 went their way and he ended up making 45.

A big factor in this match was the bottom 4 of each team in the 2nd dig. We saw Bresnan, Broad, Swann & Anderson compile 88 runs between them in their 2nd innings compared to Siddle, Harris, Lyon & Bird making 43. That's 45 runs of the eventual 74 run deficit right there.

With the series now lost I'd look at making 4 changes for this last test with an eye to the future and also to get an idea of which players to persist with heading into our summer. First of all our two main quicks Siddle & Harris should be rested from the Oval. No use playing them in a dead rubber at the risk of them picking up an injury after long campaigns and potentially ruling them out of our series. Watto I'd leave out as it seems likely he wont be able to bowl and I think we can all agree that he doesn't make enough runs to justify selection as a batsman. And finally I'd leave Haddin out as he hasn't really delivered. He's made 2 50's in 8 innings and while his keepings been ok I wouldn't say it's been anything phenominal. And he was very ordinary at Lords.

So I'd bring in Wade, Faulkner, Starc & Agar for the final test at The Oval where the ball always spins.

C. Rogers

D. Warner

U. Khawaja

M. Clarke*

S. Smith

+M. Wade

J. Faulkner

A. Agar

M. Starc

N. Lyon

J. Bird

12th man Phil Hughes

Big test match for Khawaja as if he doesn't produce here one Nic Maddinson could be pushing for his spot come the GABBA test. Steve Smith also needs to take the bull by the horns and start to produce some consistent cricket, as he's shown a bit but nowhere near enough to secure his position. Clarke & Rogers pick themselves and it was good to see Warner make some 2nd innings runs.

Matthew Wade gets another opportunity to show he's improved his glove work and confirm what we already know in that he's a much better batsman then Haddin. And James Faulkner gets an opportunity at 7 as the all rounder who'll bowl first change. He has a lot of promise this kid and I reckon has a bright future. He's already a very good bowler and his batting is improving significantly.

Mitchell Starc given an opportunity to lead an inexperienced attack with the new ball and Jackson Bird to bowl into the breeze. Gives these two a chance to stake their claim for the 3rd seamers spot for the GABBA test ahead of James Pattinson or Pat Cummins. Nathan Lyon rightfully retains his spot after a very good test match and Ashton Agar to come back into the XI to play spin twin to Nathan Lyon, having one spinner to spin the ball into the right handers and the other to spin it away from them.

A very inexperienced XI that will likely loose but I think would also answer a lot of important questions that need to be raised before our summer.

Other peoples thoughts?

I think its a good time now to give some kids a go... even at the expense of smith for agar, with lyon, just to give agar another crack before coming home.

I think khawaja is too timid in our environment to be played @ 3,,, at least at this moment. I believe he should follow Clark, & come in at 5. Just to allow him the time to adjust to being an australian test batsmen.

IMO we need a Real gritty bugger in at 3... before the stylish Clark comes in to flash his wares. I think our current grittiest are Rogers & Warner.

... do we have a young opener in the wings?

but let not make more than 3 changes.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

You know what TD? You're probably right but what are our other choices? Those who have had a go all come into the same category ... not really good enough! Is Marsh any worse than half of the batsmen in England at the moment? Shuffling the deck chairs?

Hughes, Khawaja, Smith or Cowan could stay for now but I'm not sure any of those 4 are the answer going forward. If it was me I'd be biting the bullet and bringing in 2 new young batsmen (England have done it with Root and Bairstow) but I doubt whether the selectors would take the risk with 2 new young players as part of the top order. Maddinson could be given a chance at no.3 and Burns at no.5 but that would be quite a radical move. However, I'd be quite surprised if we didn't see at least one new batsman for the Brisbane Test.

I also can't see the Selectors going away from having the keeper batting at no.7 either (although they might do it for the Oval Test) Faulkner would have to bat too high for his batting ability if he was slotted in at no.6. And that brings us back to Watson. If they replace him with a 'like for like' then that brings an inexperienced batsman/bowler in to bat at no.6. Henriques is probably our next best choice but he's no world beater either. I'd give Moises a go all the same.

But getting back to Marsh, he showed a bit when he first came into the side and then went off the boil. I suppose I'm using the Australia A side as a guide and if those players are next cabs off the rank, then Marsh is in the mix. Doolan was part of the Australia A team so maybe he'll get an opportunity.

Who knows???

That's exactly it isn't it Macca, who knows?

Maddinson's certainly making a strong case for himself, but at the same time I don;t want him or Burns (our two best prospects IMO) thrown to the wolves and would be happy to see them demand a spot by making a mountain of runs in the next Shield season.

Rogers being picked under the old school style of selection (making a heap of runs at FC level first, same as Hussey) seems to have worked, so I'd be happy enough to see it applied for the return leg.

My XI for the First Test at The GABBA

Chris Rogers

David Warner

Mark Cosgrove http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/4818.html (Has 22 FC 100's and has consistently been one of the Shields leading run getters over the last 5 years)

Michael Clarke*

Alex Doolan http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/233648.html (coming off a great Shield season) or Micahel Klinger http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=7906;type=tournament (from this years Division 2 County Season with Klinger coming 4th in leading run scorers)

Steve Smith (happy for him to be given a little bit more time and can play as the all rounder)

+Tim Paine (He's a leader and has plenty of years ahead of him. Now is the time for him to come in and provide some new leadership. Would make him Vice Captain once he's cemented his spot)

James Pattinson

Peter Siddle

Ryan Harris

Nathan Lyon

Three quicks, one spinner, one spinning all rounder (if you can call Smith that), two part time spinners in Clarke & Warner, some part time medium pace with Cosgrove and depending on which one of Doolan or Klinger you went with, you get a back up keeper in Doolan in case anything happened to Paine mid-test or a brilliant fieldsman and leader in Klinger.

That's the way I'd be going anyway. Would love to see Faulkner as the all rounder but his batting isn't there yet.. Not to bat at 6 anyway.

[Macca 16,903]

That's exactly it isn't it Macca, who knows?

Maddinson's certainly making a strong case for himself, but at the same time I don;t want him or Burns (our two best prospects IMO) thrown to the wolves and would be happy to see them demand a spot by making a mountain of runs in the next Shield season.

Rogers being picked under the old school style of selection (making a heap of runs at FC level first, same as Hussey) seems to have worked, so I'd be happy enough to see it applied for the return leg.

My XI for the First Test at The GABBA

Chris Rogers

David Warner

Mark Cosgrove http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/4818.html (Has 22 FC 100's and has consistently been one of the Shields leading run getters over the last 5 years)

Michael Clarke*

Alex Doolan http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/233648.html (coming off a great Shield season) or Micahel Klinger http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=7906;type=tournament (from this years Division 2 County Season with Klinger coming 4th in leading run scorers)

Steve Smith (happy for him to be given a little bit more time and can play as the all rounder)

+Tim Paine (He's a leader and has plenty of years ahead of him. Now is the time for him to come in and provide some new leadership. Would make him Vice Captain once he's cemented his spot)

James Pattinson

Peter Siddle

Ryan Harris

Nathan Lyon

Three quicks, one spinner, one spinning all rounder (if you can call Smith that), two part time spinners in Clarke & Warner, some part time medium pace with Cosgrove and depending on which one of Doolan or Klinger you went with, you get a back up keeper in Doolan in case anything happened to Paine mid-test or a brilliant fieldsman and leader in Klinger.

That's the way I'd be going anyway. Would love to see Faulkner as the all rounder but his batting isn't there yet.. Not to bat at 6 anyway.

I wonder if the Australian A team is in action before the 1st Test in Brisbane? Maybe they should organise some games regardless - possibly in Australia to play against South Africa A. Obviously we'll have some Shield games to go on as well.

If you were a young up and coming batsman right now there's some golden opportunities coming up. It's my bet that the selectors will be looking for batsmen who can bat all day and put a huge price on their wicket. We've got a 36 year old in Rogers showing them how to do it. There's got to be others. I refuse to believe the cupboard is completely bare.

But I agree with you about throwing too many new players to the wolves. One at a time and start that player off at no.5 or no.6. That's the way we've traditionally done it over time (with a few exceptions) Neil Harvey began his career at no.6, Greg Chappell started at no.7 and Keith Stackpole started at no.8!

Even the great Sir Donald Bradman started at the lowly position of no.7 (the Don's 1st Test)

You've possibly got Doolan in and I'd go with him, Maddinson or Burns. My choice of Shaun Marsh was because the alternatives of either Hughes, Cowan or Khawaja doesn't really appeal. Cosgrove has churned out a lot of runs and has claims. Unsure on Smith although he has improved.

I do think we should be looking at the Australia A side as a guide. The batsmen who played recently in South Africa ... Doolan, S Marsh, Maddinson, Henriques and Maxwell could well be the ones to look out for.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

I wonder if the Australian A team is in action before the 1st Test in Brisbane? Maybe they should organise some games regardless - possibly in Australia to play against South Africa A. Obviously we'll have some Shield games to go on as well.

If you were a young up and coming batsman right now there's some golden opportunities coming up. It's my bet that the selectors will be looking for batsmen who can bat all day and put a huge price on their wicket. We've got a 36 year old in Rogers showing them how to do it. There's got to be others. I refuse to believe the cupboard is completely bare.

But I agree with you about throwing too many new players to the wolves. One at a time and start that player off at no.5 or no.6. That's the way we've traditionally done it over time (with a few exceptions) Neil Harvey began his career at no.6, Greg Chappell started at no.7 and Keith Stackpole started at no.8!

Even the great Sir Donald Bradman started at the lowly position of no.7 (the Don's 1st Test)

You've possibly got Doolan in and I'd go with him, Maddinson or Burns. My choice of Shaun Marsh was because the alternatives of either Hughes, Cowan or Khawaja doesn't really appeal. Cosgrove has churned out a lot of runs and has claims. Unsure on Smith although he has improved.

I do think we should be looking at the Australia A side as a guide. The batsmen who played recently in South Africa ... Doolan, S Marsh, Maddinson, Henriques and Maxwell could well be the ones to look out for.

Not a bad idea there Macca about getting Australia A to play some more games. They don't have any coming up after their current triangular One Day series vs South Africa A & India A but I could be mistaken.

Not a bad idea that any young batsmen brought into the side should bat at 5 or 6 at first and leave the dreaded number 3 spot to either an experience FC cricketer eg Cosgrove, Doolan, Klinger.

I think Roger and Warner pick themselves as openners for our series and Clarke likewise at 4. The keeper at number 7 is pretty straight forward also, whether you were to stick with Haddin or as I would, go with Tim Paine who I think it's time for. That leaves 3, 5 & 6 up for grabs.

For me Cosgrove is the obvious choice at number 3 given he's one of the only batsmen we have who averages over 40 at first class level. Is experienced with over 8000 FC runs and more then 100 FC matches and has managed 22 FC 100's and 49 FC 50's along the way. His part time medium pace (40 FC wickets) could be handy also ala Nathan Astle type.

Number 5 is a tougher one. Nic Maddinson is clearly the most talented and in form young batsman we have going around at the moment and he also bowls some handy left arm orthodox. However he is a natural opening batsman which makes me think it may be best to wait until an openers spot opens up, or if Cosgrove fails Rogers could move down to 3 (bated there often in County cricket) allowing Maddinson to slot into his natural position.

Joe Burns another promising young batsman is in the middle of a bit of a form dip so you'd probably like to see him make some runs in the Shield before he pushes his case.

Alex Doolan is another that I and others have mentioned as he had a very good Shield season last year despite his career FC average of 38. However in his last 10 FC innings he has only been averaging about 32 so it may be better to wait to pick him until he's in better form.

This leads me to the player that I think is currently the best fit. Michael Klinger. This guys a brilliant fieldsman (might help balance out the addition of Cosgrove who's fielding is iffy), is very experienced. Is a leader at South Australia is is currently in very good form averaging over 50 in this years County season.

Finally at number 6 is where we need an all rounder or batsman who's more then handy with the ball IMO. Gone are the days of Warne and McGrath who we could rely on the rip through the opposition with the help of two other bowlers (Gillespie, Lee, Kasporwicz, Fleming etc). We need a genuine 5th bowling option to help take 20 wickets.

James Faulkner who I'd love to see in this role needs to improve his batting as he's still averaging a tick under 30 with the bat at FC level, same as Mitch Marsh who's an interesting prospect. With Watson on the nose this leaves us IMO with the likes of Steve Smith, Glenn Maxwell, Moises Henriques and Andrew McDonald.

Maxwell as we know divides opinion and at this stage is obviously more suited to the shorter formats of the game and he'd be the first from that list that I'd discard. Moises Henriques for me falls into the same category as Faulkner & Marsh. Although Henriques does average over 30 with the bat, it's only just over and ideally you want some who averages at worst in the high 30's or into the 40's with the bat to play as your all rounder. He had an encouraging test debut Henriques but his batting was found wanting in his other 2 tests in India.

This leaves us with McDonald and Smith. McDonald is probably the more genuine all rounder with a FC batting average of just under 40 and bowling average of 28.64 compared to Smith who has a FC batting average of just over 41 but his bowling average is about 54.5, 46.5 in tests.

Smith has age on his side while McDonald has experience. At this stage I'd be sticking with Smith as I think runs are our main need at the moment and he does still provide handy bowling. Smith has shown some signs of improvement with two impressive 50's in this series, but he'd be the most under pressure for mine in the XI I listed. A poor batting display at The Oval could be enough for me to prefer McDonald, but as we speak currently I'd be going with Smith.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Smith has age on his side while McDonald has experience. At this stage I'd be sticking with Smith as I think runs are our main need at the moment and he does still provide handy bowling. Smith has shown some signs of improvement with two impressive 50's in this series, but he'd be the most under pressure for mine in the XI I listed. A poor batting display at The Oval could be enough for me to prefer McDonald, but as we speak currently I'd be going with Smith.

In fact to give you an indication of how quickly things change, I've already changed my mind and I would go with McDonald. So my XI for the GABBA would be.

Chris Rogers http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/7388.html

David Warner http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/219889.html

Mark Cosgrove http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/4818.html

Michael Clarke* http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/4578.html

Michael Klinger http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/6161.html

Andrew McDonald http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/6553.html

+Tim Paine http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/7252.html

James Pattinson http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/272465.html

Peter Siddle http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/7898.html

Ryan Harris http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/5779.html

Nathan Lyon http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/272279.html

I don't overly care about the calls from the British press about a Dad's Army XI that this would be. I reckon it would probably be our current most in form XI and balanced team at that. We'd still have 6 players under 30, only 2 under 26 granted. But it gives us 5 genuine bowling options, a part time spinner (Warner) a part time medium pacer (Cosgrove) and if Clarke ever gets back to bowling we'll have another part time spinner.

Klinger improves our fielding and he and Paine also bring some leadership into the XI.

We could then have an Australia A team that focuses on youth, such as:

Nic Maddinson*

Jordan Silk

Phil Hughes (He's still very young)

Joe Burns

+Peter Handscomb

Glenn Maxwell

James Faulkner

Mitchell Starc

Pat Cummins

Adam Zampa

Josh Hazlewood

Now there's a bit of talent in that XI that's worth getting excited about.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Tall Defence

[jazza 1,323]

So what do ya reckon jazza?

A partial rebuild, a total rebuild or a rebuild of the rebuild! Dare I say it ... "It is what it is"

Maybe CA can give the MFC a call (or walk across the road for a chat) and find out all about those rebuilds

mot sure how much of a rebuild

im worried about some inconsistsies, lyons plays 20 tests and isn't much of a spinner but is a leader within the team and when the going is tuff he grits his teeth and gets on with the job

the selection problem we have is after warne they tried 10 spinners in 14 tests and fell in love with left arm around the wicket off spinning trundlers, why I don't know

NOW they go to an ashes and drop lyon our no1 man for a 19 yo untried secondly they about to infuse a 380yo expaki leg spinner. this is called panic, and every time something goes wrong its either shoot lyon or bring lyon back from the dead,this means the selectors and captain atm have no gutz to make hard decisions and stick by them for the rebuild, its a merry go round

so whats needed is leadership, and that starts from the top

the national selector should probably always travel with the team and have simple and easy plan set out for the players,

the captain yesterday made a statement about nobody else is good enough . they haven't made runs at shield level. this is a bad statement. he should of said our shot selection isn't good enough

most of the batsmen are ok, unfortunately the tail has been wagging the dog

Watson.warner .smith and kulwaja hughes have got away with unprofessional rubbish for over 2 years

the coach has a job to sort that out, not the captain.and the captain shouldn't be whingeing about what the other players at shield level are doing.he didn't and wouldn't bite the bullet for the last 2 years and page 95 of the Saturday hun was just the best message any capt/coach/selector could of learned

A TEAM MEETING BEFORE THE LAST TEST AND SIMPLE MESSAGE

THE COACH WILL WORK YOU THROUGH YOUR PROBLEMS IN THE NETS FOR THE NEXT 10 TESTS

AFTER THAT YOUR ON YOUR OWN NO EXCUSES

plenty more to say but struggling to put thoughts into words

if you've played team sport for a long time, good leaders are more expressive off the field

a sign of good leadership is how things are handled on the field

sometimes behind closed doors, ripping off the bandaid and everbody being given a direction

sorts it all out and we all go forward with a clear mind and intentions

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

the captain yesterday made a statement about nobody else is good enough . they haven't made runs at shield level. this is a bad statement. he should of said our shot selection isn't good enough

Clarke made an accurate statement that even Blind Freddy can see. At present there is no one else presently good enough. The discussion on here rightly raises the challenges with the options. There are no obvious choices banging down the door. Since Ponting and Hussey departed there has been a golden opportunity for prospects to shine. The reposes has been at best fickle I think the shot selection statement is rightly and validly made by the coach Lehmann. And the batsman you mention highlight that their probably not good enough either ATM.

[jazza 1,323]

Clarke made an accurate statement that even Blind Freddy can see. At present there is no one else presently good enough. The discussion on here rightly raises the challenges with the options. There are no obvious choices banging down the door. Since Ponting and Hussey departed there has been a golden opportunity for prospects to shine. The reposes has been at best fickle I think the shot selection statement is rightly and validly made by the coach Lehmann. And the batsman you mention highlight that their probably not good enough either ATM.

well simple really

who has got the job of telling Watson and others about DRS use

do we write it down in a book and give it to wattos mother at the end of tour?

Davey warner, surely somebody mmmmm probably his father was called to England to give him a foot up the clacka, or is there SOMEBODY within the squad that takes him out the back and has a word with him

now mr RR don't know where you sit in the team sports area, my experience is limited to 25 years footy and about 18 years cricket.

now you don't have to be the best , but team leaders don't put up with rubbish and pull dropkicks into line, we have a couple of those and also a capable group of players which have proven they can do well

its just a matter of getting their heads together and playing for the TEAM ,this seems to be the biggest obstacle atm, people are saying good things about the players every 4th test.no consistency from the team

so they have the talent.its gotta be there

so that only leaves one area that's not working. off the ground. and that points to one problem

Edited August 14, 2013 by jazza

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Oh another bash Clarke post. It's not like you to fester.

Geez jazza you make it so hard work out who I would back in knowledge about leadership.... Ian Chappell or you? Boy it a close one.

[jazza 1,323]

Oh another bash Clarke post. It's not like you to fester.

Geez jazza you make it so hard work out who I would back in knowledge about leadership.... Ian Chappell or you? Boy it a close one.

ian chapel wrote about field settings not leadership

and I was answering macca originally

read your post on a.davey before making comments about my OPINION

all ive said is WE have the talent , but its not being cohersed to to a team inviroment as yet

as I said SHOULD SOMEBODY WRITE DOWN THE PROBLEMS AND GIVE THEM TO PLAYERS MOTHERS TO SORT OUT AT THE END OF TOUR??????????

OR SHOULD WE APPOINT PERSONAL WITHIN THE TEAM AND OFFICIALS TO DO IT ?????????

good morning RRRRRRRRRRRRRR

and good morning tall d and macca

and listen rr. g ablett senior maybe he would make a good coach mmmm would you listen to him.doubt it nancy

Edited August 14, 2013 by jazza

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think it evident that in some areas we don't have the talent and haven't for sometime. Another Blind Freddie situation I would have thought.

I would have thought those that will not comply with the team ethos won't be part of it.

Each of those elements are at best fringe players (eg Watson, Khawaja) or are not out of the team ( eg Johnson).

Their time of reckoning is not too far away. And if there had indeed been the talent at Shield level, their day of reckoning would have been sooner.

Do you think writing in CAPS makes your points seem less hollow than if you don't?

[jazza 1,323]

yes

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

LOL. Oh dear.

You have my deepest sympathies.

[Macca 16,903]

If the goal is to be 'great' in every position then the answer lies in how you go about it.

Do we pick a team that can be a lot more competitive now (but in all likelihood, still lose) or do we take a punt on youth. We have no hesitation doing it with the bowlers ... Cummins debuted at 18, Pattinson 21, Starc 21 ... none of those 3 were dominating at Shield level when they were picked for their country. They certainly showed a bit of promise though and if they can overcome fitness issues, they are definitely the future.

We could say the same thing about our batsmen. Maddinson, Burns, Silk, Doolan (27) and 1 or 2 others show a bit of promise but aren't setting the world on fire. Not all of them are going to make it if they are tried, but 1 or 2 might make it. And if 1 or 2 come through you've got a player or 2 that plays for 10-12 years.

Smith, Hughes and Khawaja have been tried and they might still be persevered with. Otherwise, they go back to Shield level and hopefully get lots of runs and force their way back in. It's not the end when a young player gets dropped ... nor should it ever be. Martyn, Langer, Hayden and a number of others came back.

I'd introduce one new young batsmen for the 1st Test in Brisbane (batting at no.5 or no.6) If the selectors want to be daring they might pick 2. Or maybe another young batsman can be introduced later in the series (in preparation for the South African tour to follow)

We have to start building for the future.