Anyone for cricket?

[titan_uranus 24,580]

Hilfenhaus has been a good bowler for Australia in the past. He lacked penetration against England last series, but before then he has been very good. His series breakdown has been as follows:

vs South Africa (away) 2008/09 - 7 wickets at 52.28.

vs England (away) 2009 - 22 wickets @ 27.45

vs West Indies (home) 2009/10 - 5 wickets @ 14.00

vs Pakistan (neutral) 2010 - 8 wickets @ 23.75

vs India (away) 2010/11 - 6 wickets @ 43.50

vs England (home) 2010/11 - 7 wickets @ 59.28

Firstly, it shows that he has been a successful bowler for us in the past.

In the final series against England, he had an economy rate of 2.62. This was by far the best of the Australian bowlers, with Siddle being next best of the main bowlers at 3.28 rpo. It wasn't that he was bowling badly, he just wasn't penetrating. If he was bowling badly then he would have dumped much earlier. This is reinforced by the fact that he bowled the most overs of any Australian bowler, despite only playing 4 tests.

He also had the lowest (behind George who only played one test) economy rate in the Indian tour, bowling the second most overs (82 overs, behind Hauritz's 90 overs).

Before these series he has been a very good bowler. But in these two series he lacked penetration, which is what Chris Rogers has been saying about him. He also says that this season he has recovered that pace and penetration, making him a very good bowler. He bowling well in the Shield and, if he's bowling well, then he has demonstrated that he is a capable international bowler.

He's a proven bowler who is emerging from a lean patch. He has a massive tank (I hear he runs a 15+ beep) and can bowl many overs a day. Against the top batsmen in the world, we can rely on him to perform a role for our attack and not let the captain down. That's what you want and that's why he's there.

Conversely, Starc has shown that he's not yet capable of maintaining pressure for long periods of time. I'd be surprised if Starc played on Boxing Day.

That's without a doubt as flattering and as good a write up on a previously pedestrian bowler I can imagine.

It seems as though he has changed his game a bit since he was dropped, which makes perfect sense given he wasn't taking wickets. As a new-ball bowler if you're taking wickets you're not playing well, and he wasn't doing that. He wasn't quick and he had no variation. Almost every ball he bowled was a good-length, gentle away swinger. That's what made him 'rubbish'.

If the reports are correct, and he has changed his game, quickening his speed and adding in variation, maybe he has become more of a wicket-taking threat. He certainly has to be taking wickets if he's going to hold his spot (which I can't see happening, with Cummins and Harris due to return soon).

[Axis of Bob 11,158]

Sorry, I'd already read your opinion.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2011/content/current/story/546544.html

In summary, you believe that if he is now bowling like they are saying he is bowling, then you are happy with his selection and that he needs to take wickets to stay in the team.

Thank god we have selectors.

[titan_uranus 24,580]

Sorry, I'd already read your opinion.

http://www.espncrici...ory/546544.html

In summary, you believe that if he is now bowling like they are saying he is bowling, then you are happy with his selection and that he needs to take wickets to stay in the team.

Thank god we have selectors.

No, I previously said he was crap when he was in the side previously, and he was dropped for good reason (he wasn't taking wickets). I said I was surprised he was brought back, but on the basis of the news that he's changed his action or his style of bowling, if he starts taking wickets then good for him. His previous problem was that he wasn't taking wickets. He was economical, which is nice, but he wasn't threatening with the new ball.

And I haven't anywhere said I'm happy with his selection, because I'm not, new Hilfenhaus or old Hilfenhaus. I'd give Starc the game to see if he really can do something at Test level, since it seems Harris (touch wood) will be ready to go in Sydney, and I'd rather see what the younger Starc can do.

And I disagree with your opening statement in the previous post: 'it shows that he has been a successful bowler for us in the past.' I don't agree with that reading of the statistics, nor of Hilfenhaus in general.

If you want a summary of my stance it is this: I don't like Hilfenhaus, I never have, and I don't believe he played any long-term decent cricket in his 17 Tests. I'm surprised and, to an extent, disappointed he's been re-called, but if he truly has re-worked himself then good for him. But I'd prefer to stick with Starc. And in the longer run, I'd much prefer to go with Harris, Cummins, Pattinson and Siddle.

[Macca 16,606]

If Hilfo plays I hope he does extra well . Many never get that 2nd chance . Let's hope he grasps it . He's reported to have got back a yard of pace .

India are an ageing Team with a suspect bowling line up and this can often put pressure on batsmen . My gut feeling is they will struggle to get 20 wickets so we should win the series .

Starc will get more chances hopefully . Left arm over at good pace is invaluable .

[Whispering_Jack 29,178]

Here's the selected team for the First Test:-

Michael Clarke (capt)

Brad Haddin

Ed Cowan

Ben Hilfenhaus

Michael Hussey

Nathan Lyon

Shaun Marsh

James Pattinson

Ricky Ponting

Peter Siddle

David Warner

Mitchell Starc (12th man)

The battle is between two test sides both flawed and both underperformers of late. One at the end of its cycle, the other in team building phase. Interesting stuff to come.

I'm not convinced about the Australian bowling attack against the strength of the Indian batsmen but accept that, in those circumstances, Christian would have had to come in at the expense of either Ponting or Hussey and I don't think the selectors are prepared to do this just yet. The two vets will need to perform if they are to remain in the side.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Here's the selected team for the First Test:-

Michael Clarke (capt)

Brad Haddin

Ed Cowan

Ben Hilfenhaus

Michael Hussey

Nathan Lyon

Shaun Marsh

James Pattinson

Ricky Ponting

Peter Siddle

David Warner

Mitchell Starc (12th man)

The battle is between two test sides both flawed and both underperformers of late. One at the end of its cycle, the other in team building phase. Interesting stuff to come.

I'm not convinced about the Australian bowling attack against the strength of the Indian batsmen but accept that, in those circumstances, Christian would have had to come in at the expense of either Ponting or Hussey and I don't think the selectors are prepared to do this just yet. The two vets will need to perform if they are to remain in the side.

I pretty much agree Jack. I'd like to see both oldies to see out the 2012 Aussie summer, with one (1) of then to retire this Summer,,, and the other to retire the end of the 2013 Summer.

I think, the same thinking is being applied to the bowling, as the other young quick recovers from injury.

The worst thing we can do is fill the National Team full of inexperience all at once - see Hilfenhaus.

[The Great Pretender 454]

I pretty much agree Jack. I'd like to see both oldies to see out the 2012 Aussie summer, with one (1) of then to retire this Summer,,, and the other to retire the end of the 2013 Summer.

I think, the same thinking is being applied to the bowling, as the other young quick recovers from injury.

The worst thing we can do is fill the National Team full of inexperience all at once - see Hilfenhaus.

I agree but the young bowlers seem to be doing fine. When Cummins is fit, one of Hilfdnhaus or Siddle will go.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I agree but the young bowlers seem to be doing fine. When Cummins is fit, one of Hilfdnhaus or Siddle will go.

Yep, I couldn't remember his name, Cummins, + Pattinson, + Siddle as the workhorse & one spinner, + an alrounder.

Watson to Open for a year or two, then go back to the Mid order.

I like what I'm seeing of Cowan. But don't like 2 Lefties opening the Innings. I think Cowan & Watson could be a good pairing?

Maybe Warner can eventually be a No 3, David Boon type 3?

[Whispering_Jack 29,178]

How does this Ed Cowan go in the 50 over game and the 20/20 stuff?

[Sir Why You Little 36,608]

Hussey out first ball. Suprised? Nope.

[My TD 156]

Hussey was dudded.

Fricken Indians as usual appealling for anything remotley near the bat and getting 'em.

2 batsmen robbed so far and it's day 1.

Bulltish .

[Whispering_Jack 29,178]

That's cricket.

You can't overrule the umpire in these tests so we just have to get on with the game and get over it.

[Sir Why You Little 36,608]

That's cricket.

You can't overrule the umpire in these tests so we just have to get on with the game and get over it.

Agree. Haddin would have been out if the DRS was in place.

Hussey 3 Golden Quacks in his last 8 innings.

[Nasher 33,607]

How does this Ed Cowan go in the 50 over game and the 20/20 stuff?

He makes runs. He's got all the shots, but he still scores too slowly to probably be in consideration for higher honours in these forms of the game.

[Nasher 33,607]

Hussey out first ball. Suprised? Nope.

I was a bit surprised when he was given out when he hadn't hit it.

[Sir Why You Little 36,608]

I was a bit surprised when he was given out when he hadn't hit it.

With 70,000 people making noise the Ump made a hard call. He doesn't get 9 replays in slo mo. harsh call but that is cricket. Haddin is still there.

[Nasher 33,607]

With 70,000 people making noise the Ump made a hard call. He doesn't get 9 replays in slo mo. harsh call but that is cricket. Haddin is still there.

I know, but my (subtle) point was that it's a bit harsh to rib the guy when he wasn't actually out. I realise it wasn't the greatest shot he's ever played in his career, but luck - or lack thereof - played an enormous part in his dismissal.

[Whispering_Jack 29,178]

Quick Quiz:

Since January, 2008 who has made the most ducks in test cricket - Michael Hussey or Chris Martin?

[The Great Pretender 454]

If its not mr cricket then he must be getting close.

I can't see them putting Watson back in for the second test if he wasn't fit for the first but Hussey's position must be close to precarious.

[Macca 16,606]

Quick Quiz:

Since January, 2008 who has made the most ducks in test cricket - Michael Hussey or Chris Martin?

I heard that they both might have made 12 but not sure of the time frame WJ

Btw just on Hussey - "Bad luck" seems to target out of form players . No idea why .

[Whispering_Jack 29,178]

I heard that they both might have made 12 but not sure of the time frame WJ

Btw just on Hussey - "Bad luck" seems to target out of form players . No idea why .

Spot on - 12 each.

As to the issue of bad luck dogging out of form players, I know the feeling. Dogged me throughout my entire career.

[Sir Why You Little 36,608]

I know, but my (subtle) point was that it's a bit harsh to rib the guy when he wasn't actually out. I realise it wasn't the greatest shot he's ever played in his career, but luck - or lack thereof - played an enormous part in his dismissal.

Take another look at the shot he played...First ball day one....it was a total shocker...he may have got a rough decision but he almost deserved it.

Time to hit the Commentary Box M. Cricket.

[Macca 16,606]

Spot on - 12 each.

As to the issue of bad luck dogging out of form players, I know the feeling. Dogged me throughout my entire career.

It's funny . I had a mate ring me with the info on Martin and Hussey today . And I dIdn't believe him ! I think he heard it on the ABC .

Damien Martyn was a player who started having bad luck when he lost form ( Ashes 2005 ? ) . It's a weird phenomenom .

I think the look on Hussey's face today said it all "Why me ? Why now ? " He missed that by a good margin today .

Let's hope he makes some in the 2nd dig . Watson might be fit for Sydney and I can't see them dropping Marsh after just recalling him .

Siddle has done well again with the bat . His cricket has improved in a short space of time . Good on him .

[dee-luded 2,959]

It's funny . I had a mate ring me with the info on Martin and Hussey today . And I dIdn't believe him ! I think he heard it on the ABC .

Damien Martyn was a player who started having bad luck when he lost form ( Ashes 2005 ? ) . It's a weird phenomenom .

I think the look on Hussey's face today said it all "Why me ? Why now ? " He missed that by a good margin today .

Let's hope he makes some in the 2nd dig . Watson might be fit for Sydney and I can't see them dropping Marsh after just recalling him .

Siddle has done well again with the bat . His cricket has improved in a short space of time . Good on him .

If fully fit, Watson will walk back in to this team.

IMO Siddle is a must test player. After 2 New ball strike bowlers we have to have a blood & guts, all heart workhorse to carry the big burden when the tracks are too flat. He is my Merv, can Bowl, can bat, & can field.

He's the one who'll dig them in and Dig them out when others give up the ghost. Must keep. All grit & schitt.

Edited December 26, 2011 by dee-luded

[Macca 16,606]

If fully fit, Watson will walk back in to this team.

Yep I agree , but the question is the "Fully fit" bit . Do the selectors wait until he's fit enough to bowl (as well) before they select him ? I'm not sure they even know what to do with him at the moment .

We're a team in transition right now and I can't see that changing for quite a while .