A boutique ground at Casey - the vision

[Rogue 585]

vanlo, I agree that ease of access to Casey Fields is a major issue.

As you point out, even if you live in the East/South-East, cross-town public transport (as opposed to into and out of town) options are poor, to say the least.

The MFC could play Freo, WCE, West Syd, Gold Coast, Adel, Port, Bris, North, Bulldogs, and Sydney at a venue that size, without hampering the AFL and its decree to maximise attendances.

Looking at this years draw as a reference we would have the WB, Freo, Sydney, Bris, NM, and WCE games at the boutique stadium. The idea of 6 home games away from the G isn't appetising for many, and I am an MCC member (and yes I am an MFC member too), but it should be enough for a Casey or a Fed govt looking for votes in Casey to put some money into it.

Way too many games away from the 'G, IMO.

[w00dy 146]

How much money are Melbourne making playing in front of crowds of up to 20K at the MCG?

i agree we are losing money at some of our MCG games...

but casey is being talked of as a gold mine... "geelong make $600k a game playing in geelong, lets build our own stadium at casey fields and make that much money." it won't be at all lucritive like the setup the cats have in geelong...

geelong make so much money because they sell out their stadium, so every fan has to buy a seat, paying much more per head than people attending melbourne games do... we would never go close to filling casey unless perhaps we played another melbourne club...

the cats also make a lot of money off corporates down at geelong... what corporate support would we get at Casey?

we may make some modest profits playing out there, but not enough to ensure the clubs future, and certainly not enough to justify the construction of a stadium there...

[casey scorp 2]

it seems as if we're going to embrace casey to try and gain some support... however I still don't think we'd draw large enough crowds out there...

how about this idea? 1 game a season, at casey fields... no stadium built... play the game against a low drawing interstate side, during grass roots round (I think that's one of the themed rounds) and it can be just like a local footy game... how many could the ground hold? 10,000? sell 10,000 tickets and it's sold out, with a portion reserved for Casey residents...

benefits of this:

don't need to commit to construction of stadium

only 1 game per season. I believe while fans would make the trek to casey for one game, however doing it 4 or 5 times is a different story

guaranteed profit

An outstanding suggestion I think. From 2009 a single game against Freo would probably be a good test for the ground. And it would be able to be tracked over time prior to any decision to build a stadium. If it went well, obviously it could be increased to a couple of games. There would obviously be the need to bring in temporary spectator amenities, but it would be a great idea.

[w00dy 146]

Just on a side note with relation to Casey Fields, just about all economic research has found that new stadiums provide zero economic benefit for the towns in which they are built.

Despite what they have said, whether or not the Casey council go through with the project is another matter.

from memory that's correct... they can even increase social costs such as increased crime, pollution etc.

[w00dy 146]

An outstanding suggestion I think. From 2009 a single game against Freo would probably be a good test for the ground. And it would be able to be tracked over time prior to any decision to build a stadium. If it went well, obviously it could be increased to a couple of games. There would obviously be the need to bring in temporary spectator amenities, but it would be a great idea.

i've never been there casey scorp, how many do you think they could reasonably hold there? is 10,000 about right?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

An outstanding suggestion I think. From 2009 a single game against Freo would probably be a good test for the ground. And it would be able to be tracked over time prior to any decision to build a stadium. If it went well, obviously it could be increased to a couple of games. There would obviously be the need to bring in temporary spectator amenities, but it would be a great idea.

I agree.

IMO it's a long-term move. There will be no quick fix from playing a few games there but if done well over a period of several years it could go towards helping the MFC's off-field problems.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I think many seem to be missing a few blatantly obvious parts to this eqaution.

We essentially arent paying for this Stadium !! In terms of equity , assetts and costing its not a big investment!!

We make nothing ..it costs us to have any less than 20000 at the G..even if we get 25000 there its peanuts to us.

The only games worth us beiug there are for games attracting approx 40000

Where in gods name does this stereotyping happen that all Demons come from the bloody inner bayside and eastern suburbs ??

An Yes VANLO if you make a sweeping statement that its going to inconvenience most of us to go to Casey..substantiaye it please.. just be nice to know how you arrive at it?? Keep in ming the vast majority of Melbournians live south and east of the CBD..only approx 1/3 live to all other points of the compass combined. New groth IS expected North and NW of the CBD but it'll be smal fry compared to the MILLION expected to grow in outer South East..Governments figures..not mine !!

The Cranbourne line WILL be extended sometime in next 2 election periods..more likely inside of 3-4 years.

Who says a Stadium has to be profitable to the community to make it useful for US ??? its a multipurpose ..multi user assett, thats its value.

Casey are bending over backwards to get us there.. lets not be so stupid as to dismiss the gift horse .

if we are to survive we need to become smarter, better at business..more savvy.. we need to become the NEW Melbourne Demons to a new generation.

People you need to think a little more than the next 5 mins here

[The Emblem 1]

how about this idea? 1 game a season, at casey fields... no stadium built... play the game against a low drawing interstate side, during grass roots round (I think that's one of the themed rounds) and it can be just like a local footy game...

I'm interested if I get the drivers seat, reserved space in front of the fence, and and get to beep the horn when we kick a goal.

[casey scorp 2]

i've never been there casey scorp, how many do you think they could reasonably hold there? is 10,000 about right?

It had over 10,000 there for Essendon v Hawthorn in the NAB Challenge in 2007, almost all standing (there is very little, if any, seating - 200 seats in the grandstand).

It was pretty packed on the western (grandstand) side, but could easily have held another 5,000 on the outer side. There is very little cover for spectators, but part of a VFL facility upgrade grant in the State Budget will help (along with AFL and Casey Council support) to put in some cover on the outer before next season.

Carparking has also been improved since the parking issues of the NAB Challenge game last year (about 3,000 unmarked spaces).

[dee-luded 2,959]

what didn't you like about it?

Over the opposite side of town for me to then have trouble with parking & I didn't like being packed in like a sardine..

Just generally didn't like the place as a demon supporter.

Loved VFL park watching the Dees or the Saints & just the drive out there was enjoyable, getting out of the built up areas I think were good for me.

[w00dy 146]

I think many seem to be missing a few blatantly obvious parts to this eqaution.

We essentially arent paying for this Stadium !! In terms of equity , assetts and costing its not a big investment!!

There are no details on how it would be funded, or how we would be involved. State government or the AFL would have to come to the party as Casey couldn't justify building it on their own. Would cost way too much. They can only provide incentives to the other parties to build the stadium.

We make nothing ..it costs us to have any less than 20000 at the G..even if we get 25000 there its peanuts to us.

The only games worth us beiug there are for games attracting approx 40000

i think you'll actually find there is a big difference between 20,000 people and 25,000 people... the reason the bigger stadiums aren't always profitable is because clubs have to bare the fixed costs of hosting the game... these costs don't change if 5 people or 50,000 people attend... so those 5,000 extra people are actually where all the profit is made, as pretty much all of the money they pay at the gate is the profit we make...

An Yes VANLO if you make a sweeping statement that its going to inconvenience most of us to go to Casey..substantiaye it please.. just be nice to know how you arrive at it?? Keep in ming the vast majority of Melbournians live south and east of the CBD..only approx 1/3 live to all other points of the compass combined. New groth IS expected North and NW of the CBD but it'll be smal fry compared to the MILLION expected to grow in outer South East..Governments figures..not mine !!

I didn't talk about where people lived... i talked about convenience in getting to the game... Rogue agreed with me, cross town transport is poor... if you need to use public transport it's most likely train is the best way to get to casey fields... have a look at this picture...

http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/var/met...itan_trains.gif

getting to casey by public transport isn't going to be fun... for me to reach casey fields i would have to travel an additional hour each way compared to a game at the MCG...

here is what people would have to do on most of the train lines...

Hurstbridge & Epping: Train to Flinders Street. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Jolimont station before their train enters the loop.

Upfield, Sydenham, Melton, Weribee, Williamstown: Train to Flinders Street. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Currently to get to the G these passengers change at Flinders Street and get one of the many trains to Richmond or Jolimont which takes less than 5 minutes.

Lilydale, Belgrave, Alamein, Glen Waverley: Train to Richmond. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Currently to get to the G, these passengers get the train to Richmond, then get off. No more trains for them!

Frankston: Train to Caufield. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Currently to get to the G, these passengers get the train to Richmond, No more trains for them!

Sandringham: Train to South Yarra. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Currently to get to the G, these passengers get the train to Richmond, No more trains for them!

Pakenham: Train to Dandenong. Change to Cranbourne line. Train to Cranbourne.

Currently to get to the G, these passengers get the train to Richmond.

to travel from Richmond to Cranbourne on the train takes 50 minutes... there could be some express services, but only so many as all the other stations in between need to be serviced...

some of the eastern suburbs may have buses that run to cranbourne, I'm not sure... but if train is your only option, which I assume it would be for most... it's not going to be a great trip...

The Cranbourne line WILL be extended sometime in next 2 election periods..more likely inside of 3-4 years.

There was meant to be a train line extension near where I live years ago. Hasn't happened. Still waiting. Housing has gone up way out past where the train line finishes. Hasn't made a difference.

if we are to survive we need to become smarter, better at business..more savvy.. we need to become the NEW Melbourne Demons to a new generation.

People you need to think a little more than the next 5 mins here

again, as I said earlier... just because it's a new idea, doesn't mean it's a good one...

[beelzebub 23,313]

youre right mate...lets just keep on losing money hand over fist...what was I thinking !!

[w00dy 146]

Over the opposite side of town for me to then have trouble with parking & I didn't like being packed in like a sardine..

thanks

if you considered Princes Park to be the other side of town (6km from the G) and disliked going there for this reason, how many supporters are going to dislike going to Casey (50km from the G) ?

youre right mate...lets just keep on losing money hand over fist...what was I thinking !!

i don't want to lose money either... however I believe playing games at Casey Stadium will cost the club more than it will benefit from the venture... you seem to think otherwise...

[mfcrox 143]

One thing people talk about is the growth in the East/South-East area... and this is why we should jump at the opportunity, because it will be a way to attract new members. However, do people realize that the people providing the growth to these new areas most likely barrack for teams already. Yeah, people do have children... and they are who we should be targeting for support, but who is to say we will last long enough for these children to attend our games.

I am sure a supporter of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, etc. from the East/South-East area is going to venture down and watch Melbourne do battle against Fremantle. Give me a break!!! The only people we are going to attract to watch Melbourne play Fremantle is Melbourne supporters... and I doubt that many will be willing to venture all the way out to bloody whoop-whoop Casey, when it was too much of a challenge getting them to attend at another central ground like Optus Oval.

I would rather we try our luck at Brunswick Street oval or something... try and lure so old Fitzroy people back to football. Atleast, that ground is localized and has a tram-line directly outside the ground. If not, go for Punt Rd footy ground.

[beelzebub 23,313]

i don't want to lose money either... however I believe playing games at Casey Stadium will cost the club more than it will benefit from the venture... you seem to think otherwise...

I do. Were only talking about 3 or so games a year in all likely hood. ..well Season proper games.( though Cuddles I think want to play al lpre season ones there) Would we be better to play them in Tassie... Canberra.. Gold Coast.. all of which last time I looked were a tad more inconvenient to pretty much all except Martians than Cranbourne !!..yes probably a bit thick with sarcasm..but thats the choice.. its not the G or Cranny..its "other " places!!

As to the notion from where ever that people already have allegiances so lets play in Brunswick!! What a nonsensical scribble; are you counter suggesting they WOULD ( collingwood supporters) watch us play Freo at the G?? Youve missed the point entirely..go back and read all the threads I suggest !!

The point is theres a new gen coming through.. they DONT have allegiances yet. They develop them from who they come in contact with at school.. at the local footy oval etc etc. Its how most of us came to choose a team. Cranbourne is generational in context. Its not a quick fix for next week etc. Its a foundation stone and must be looked upon in that light.

If we have heance to get practically ALL the gate at Casey..how can we NOT make money ?? Only Geelong in Vic has this sort of deal.

We cant do what we have..its sent us broke!! on more than one occasion !!

[mfcrox 143]

As to the notion from where ever that people already have allegiances so lets play in Brunswick!! What a nonsensical scribble; are you counter suggesting they WOULD ( collingwood supporters) watch us play Freo at the G?? Youve missed the point entirely..go back and read all the threads I suggest !!

The point is theres a new gen coming through.. they DONT have allegiances yet. They develop them from who they come in contact with at school.. at the local footy oval etc etc. Its how most of us came to choose a team. Cranbourne is generational in context. Its not a quick fix for next week etc. Its a foundation stone and must be looked upon in that light.

Perhaps you should read what I said also... I said we would be targeting the next generation if we played at Casey, but I am not sure we would be around long enough for the idea to take off.

I agree that in essence the next generation of Casey residents are a potential goldmine for support, however ask yourself: Why are we even considering a move to 'local' grounds? The answer is because we are in it up to our necks at the minute. We may not be around long enough for the next generation to support us. We need a quick fix for a change... we need to attract support, we need a massive marketing drive to keep our heads above the water. We need to get our membership up to 30,000-35,000 in the next two seasons. Then once we become financially stable, by all means try a Casey experiment.

I honestly don't think that moving our games out to Casey is a viable option in the near future, because no-one will go. The reason I mentioned Brunswick Street Oval is because we need an inner suburbs ground that is easily accessible so as most supporters will be able to attend and we can make even more profit.

Think of it like this (be it only a simplistic analysis)... we play some matches at Brunswick Street Oval (or Optus Oval or whatever suburban ground) at a cost of $100,000 per game. We then get 15,000-25,000 to these games because it is easily accessible. At the end we may make $100,000 profit or whatever due to the attendance. Now, alternatively we play at Casey Fields at a cost of $100,000 per game. We only get 10,000 in attendance because it is so far out of the majority of supporters way. Which makes more profit for the club? An attendance of 15,000-25,000, or an attendance of 10,000?

We need to get our head above water before we take risks like playing in the middle of no-where. Once we are financially stable, then we can experiment.

[Real Demon 232]

I canned this idea earlier, but now I'm liking it.

If the Hawks can sell off home games in Tassie, then surely we can play a few down the highway from the MCG.

I'd rather we play games at Casey than play them in Canberra, or Brisbane etc.

If it generates better profits for the the club come game day, then we need it.........it has to happen.

If stadium deals is the biggest inequity we face compared to bigger clubs, then we have to fix it.

I would have no problem traveling out to Casey to watch us play games there, especially if it meant the club benefits financially from it.

We have to do something new, and reinvent ourselves as a club.........the old ways of running the club keep bringing us back to the same point over and over!

[dee-luded 2,959]

thanks

if you considered Princes Park to be the other side of town (6km from the G) and disliked going there for this reason, how many supporters are going to dislike going to Casey (50km from the G) ?

What suburb do you live in? It might be as simple as a bus or 2 out & along the new freeway.

I would rather drive 40 mins to casey fields than the 40 mins to Princes Park, (a ground I just don't like).

I'd rather watch footy @ frankston than grounds like Princes Park, Vic Park, Western oval, Glenferrie,.

Liked Moorabbin, Junction oval, VFL park.

[mfcrox 143]

I don't know if this has been brought up... but does it cost the same for the club to play at the MCG if it blocks off the top-2 tiers of the grand stands (excluding MCC). Surely it would cost less because less staff would have to be hired for the day.

[beelzebub 23,313]

We need to get our membership up to 30,000-35,000 in the next two seasons. Then once we become financially stable, by all means try a Casey experiment.

yep your dead right.. lets just wave that magical wand and suddenly , despite no precedent existing..we will suddenly jump to 35000 members in 2 years. with all due respect..youre dreaming if you think this is the order of things.

We need to try other avenues in ORDER to get his interest and galvanise a new generation into thinking the dees are at least a worthy choice... As they say..we have to take the mountain to Mohomed..coz he sure as [censored] aint coming to us under the present set up !!

Its this semi heads in sand..denial denial denial or otherwise 'no idea" approach that has this club stagnated for years. Now a couple of , dare I say , mavericks have it in their heads to attempt to try something and the dizzy ones complain that we are abandoning our roots.. ..WE HAVE NONE !! Thats the great con. whilst all these other clubs grew from particular suburbs..we didnt. We developed a general and non psecific following. Then a supposedly mythical creature being the skiing ttractor drivving toof apparently emerged from its yeti like disguise to be the patron saint of all demons. But its a ruse. We had a great following from the start..and generations followed us ..but they were from all over the place. Then many in teh MCC sor tof adopted us as were were after all the cricketing mobs footy dept. So we got them by default. But hey were never really us either..as we now know theyd rather stay MCC then be MFC ..Ever since we were slowly shoe horned from what we thought of as our rightful home we have become the dispossed. We are all but the the AFL version of a generic..The Nomadic Generics...thats us. We thought we were of the city..but the city abandoned us. So we need some roots somewhere. West of the city...nup.. Dogs own that. North.. Essendon..and Tiges have eyes for it too. The money avenues.. nup.. Carlton and Collingwood..the nouveau rich!!. South.. Saints land. SW ?? Not corio -land..its blue and white there.The Tassie Squacks have teh East ...Only teh South East left ! suprise suprise SUPRISE then that MAcca, Gardner and Cuddles have their GPS's set down the Princess. This is the new fronteir. This is the new land of riches..and actually the only one left for us.

We dont have time to scratch our collective arses and "WAIT" for things to get better, we have to do something. At long last it seems the club has the will for it too. Thank god for that!!

[mfcrox 143]

yep your dead right.. lets just wave that magical wand and suddenly , despite no precedent existing..we will suddenly jump to 35000 members in 2 years. with all due respect..youre dreaming if you think this is the order of things.

We need to try other avenues in ORDER to get his interest and galvanise a new generation into thinking the dees are at least a worthy choice... As they say..we have to take the mountain to Mohomed..coz he sure as [censored] aint coming to us under the present set up !!

Its this semi heads in sand..denial denial denial or otherwise 'no idea" approach that has this club stagnated for years. Now a couple of , dare I say , mavericks have it in their heads to attempt to try something and the dizzy ones complain that we are abandoning our roots.. ..WE HAVE NONE !! Thats the great con. whilst all these other clubs grew from particular suburbs..we didnt. We developed a general and non psecific following. Then a supposedly mythical creature being the skiing ttractor drivving toof apparently emerged from its yeti like disguise to be the patron saint of all demons. But its a ruse. We had a great following from the start..and generations followed us ..but they were from all over the place. Then many in teh MCC sor tof adopted us as were were after all the cricketing mobs footy dept. So we got them by default. But hey were never really us either..as we now know theyd rather stay MCC then be MFC ..Ever since we were slowly shoe horned from what we thought of as our rightful home we have become the dispossed. We are all but the the AFL version of a generic..The Nomadic Generics...thats us. We thought we were of the city..but the city abandoned us. So we need some roots somewhere. West of the city...nup.. Dogs own that. North.. Essendon..and Tiges have eyes for it too. The money avenues.. nup.. Carlton and Collingwood..the nouveau rich!!. South.. Saints land. SW ?? Not corio -land..its blue and white there.The Tassie Squacks have teh East ...Only teh South East left ! suprise suprise SUPRISE then that MAcca, Gardner and Cuddles have their GPS's set down the Princess. This is the new fronteir. This is the new land of riches..and actually the only one left for us.

We dont have time to scratch our collective arses and "WAIT" for things to get better, we have to do something. At long last it seems the club has the will for it too. Thank god for that!!

What is with the snide and sarcastic remarks to those who disagree with you? You have constantly asked Vanlo to provide 'evidence' to back up his arguments, and I would say he has done a pretty decent job at it. You on the other hand have provided nothing to support your arguments.

Tell me and everyone else why the average Melbourne supporter would want to travel 50km from the clubs traditional home to watch the team play, when there may be equal or better options closer to 'home'. I don't care if you don't like Princes Park or Victoria Park... you're one person, and that is not an argument. For a bloke who has had 3000+ posts, it is a shame that your argumentative skills are so below par... lets see if you can make an improvement on it with your next post.

By the way... the South-East area is already linked with St. Kilda F.C. Not exactly untouched territory like you have said. But don't let the facts get in the way of a another good 'argument' I guess.

[furious d 463]

We aren't the only small club being screwed by stadium deals. We should be looking for partners and an inner city venue. Surely north and the bullies would be interested, maybe even Tassie if they decided to move back home.

I'm no financial genius but 3 teams playing 4 or 5 games a season would make developing an inner city venue viable IMO. Near the G would be good for us, Arden St could be an option. The kangas get a state of the art training facility, and us and the bullies get favourable deals for chipping in and making it happen. The AFL should kick in some cash and influence to help make it happen. The G, the dome, and a 20,000 seater would cater to all crowd sizes and sure up the stuggling clubs.

All avenues should be thoroughly investigated before we commit to anything

[demon3165 2,711]

I like the idea myself, at least we are thinking outside the square, could see 20,000 to 25,000 Melbourne supporters going to watch us play at Hells Stadium, only red and blue to be seen...........

[deanox 9,898]

If stadium deals is the biggest inequity we face compared to bigger clubs, then we have to fix it.

i dont think the stadium deal is the biggest problem. i think it is fixturing. how many night games do we get to help get sponsors on board? how many sat arvo at the g games do we get? (they seem to be the games that get the crowds). playing on sundays seem to get us lower crowds anyway. playing interstate games on sundays are even worse. this year we had a reprive but in previous years we have been stuck with interstate teams on mothers day! we get stuck with twilight fixtures and home games at telstra dome, all fixturing elements that kill our crowds, and thus our support. (ps fwiw this is why we get the money from the CBF, because the afl wants to maximise revenue by rigging the fixture and needs to compensate the other clubs, that they are talking about pulling the money should come hand in hand with evening out the draw.)

[titan_uranus 24,974]

i dont think the stadium deal is the biggest problem. i think it is fixturing. how many night games do we get to help get sponsors on board? how many sat arvo at the g games do we get? (they seem to be the games that get the crowds). playing on sundays seem to get us lower crowds anyway. playing interstate games on sundays are even worse. this year we had a reprive but in previous years we have been stuck with interstate teams on mothers day! we get stuck with twilight fixtures and home games at telstra dome, all fixturing elements that kill our crowds, and thus our support. (ps fwiw this is why we get the money from the CBF, because the afl wants to maximise revenue by rigging the fixture and needs to compensate the other clubs, that they are talking about pulling the money should come hand in hand with evening out the draw.)

This is the real issue. There is no way the AFL is going to allow us to use a 'boutique' stadium. There's no money in it. That's why games aren't played at Windy Hill, Arden Street, Glenferrie Oval etc. any more. Also, here we are complaining about how the MFC never gets a decent fixture. Why then would we want to sacrifice the chance to play night games or attract decent sized crowds? Geelong has a 'boutique' stadium because they're Geelong. It's another city. They need to respect both their Geelong and Melbourne members. By the way, unless you live near there, who wants to go to Casey?