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When that draft took place we didn't have the three big forwards we have now.

Watts to the wing. No, Neeld will most likely not be there next year but I'm sick of reading crap that Watts has suffered at the hands of Neeld/Craig/Misson. They work as a team so by blaming one you are effectively blaming all of them. M Jones and Terlich don't seem to be suffering. Watts issue isn't his skills or fitness it's his fear of the physical contest. We have three power forwards plus Howe. Lets utilise his strengths, being on a wing he has pace to run to/ find space , then deliver the ball with precision to our key forwards. Would become a difficult match up. This year is gone, why not try this for the remainder of the games his is fit to play. Something I have mentioned before is that he must be made to boxing twice a week, including sparring. We've heard about individual training program's , well he should have base fitness by now, this should be included into his program. Jack is still young but needs to address his fear of the contest, or we simply cut our losses and trade him. Out of interest, any know how Morton in going in the seconds? Elite club with a hard nosed coach..... I'm not being smart but am implying their biggest setback is something they need to overcome themselves mentally.

Well Choco got a good look at us today.

I realise the options aren't there yet. I would like to think next year the options are there. Depth player until his contract expires. Can't fault his endeavour but thats not enough.

Only saw the second half, but going of the stats 2 tackles for a tagger is not good enough. 2 tackles a qtr you could allow for poor disposal.

If he is solely a tagger why so few tackles. Contract or not ,not up to it.

How about the powers that be just leave the game alone for a couple of years. I don't understand this constant need to change things. With the recent introduction of two new teams we just need to leave it as is. Splitting the comp in to divisions/conferences of any description is the worst thing that could happen to this game.

Clarke was also a WA boy. Geelong senior players agreed to 500k a year to keep the list together. He might have his third flag come September. Offer him huge dollars, can't hurt to ask.

Just read of the AFL site Harry is out of contract. We should target him with massive dollars. Would love to know where our money is currently spent( besides Clarke, Dawes and Davey who is gone at seasons end, Sylvia, Chip??) we should have enough to target Harry and a key mid. Would give the new coach a bloody good spine and starting point to work with.

Paid overs?? 500k a season for a key forward with big experience is hardly overs. The pies payed over for Cloke, I don't care how many marks he takes, his kicking for goal is a disgrace. There are 18 teams and less talent to go around. Dawes will also help in the development of Hoagan. Look at clubs like pies, cats and the hawks and how many star players they have. Who should we have targeted and considering we have to pay 92.5% of the cap who should be taking home the big dollars on our list?

I WAS WRONG. Up until yesterday I was in his corner, he needs to pack up his desk today. I would like Mark Williams over Paul Roos. Choco still wants to coach, hence he left GWS, Roos main motivation would be the money.

Sorry Chook, my comment was with regards to Pendles contract status. With Davey gone at years end we should have plenty to throw around.

We would have to offer an ABLETT like deal just to get a look in.

Why is Chip leaving besides being out of contract, if he leaves in search of finals ( let's be realistic which teams are in their window)CATS - no one is on more than 500k SWANS - paid big $$ for Tippet, would have players playing for less to be part of success . HAWKS - must be at breaking point unless Buddy goes, they might target a GWS forward. FREO - chasing Buddy. PIES - no room in cap BOMBERS - just got father son in Daniher TIGERS ( think they are still of the pace) - possibility. I'm not fussed if Sylvia or Watts leave. Frawley would be chasing a big three year deal then maybe a two year deal to see him out of the game. I thought I read both our captains and Watts were having their contracts fronted ended so as not to have problem in coming years. At a guess Mitch would be on 800k , Dawes 500k, Jones 350k. So where the hell is the money going considering we have to pay at least 92.5% of the cap. Davey retiring frees up 500k , Slyvia ????. All that = offer Chip 4 years on 2.8 mill. Someone produced a list of 10-12 good kids under 22. That can't ask for much yet, should still be enough money to chase a Daisy.

I'm also bamboozled by the Magner decision. And yes my question has been answered there wasn't much available. I wasn't just throwing the Collingwood line out there , I was trying to make a point. Money won Clarke over. Money/Clarke/Neeld/Craig/Misson won Dawes over. A last chance won Chris Nights over. A chance at a flag won Q Stick, Lake, Hale, Burgoyne over. Players change clubs for differant reasons but realistically not many big names do. Even with the Pies record of fast tracking players and their A grade mids Hudson has not worked.Does this make Buckley a fool? We agree on Byrnes. Gillies has not worked. Rodan looked good pre season- has not done well in games. Passing on knowledge might all he's got left. Someone has already pointed out Pedo was never going to be a star and may work when Dawes and Clarke are in. These players were signed for stuff all on 1-2 year contracts. With 2 news clubs the talent gets thinner, while depth is still vital come finals.

R-Jay, I'm aware of the salary cap. That wasn't included in my post but is a given , the point I was trying to make is most clubs throw life lines to depth/fringe players. Just because your a powerful club doesn't mean they will work out. Sellar won't play when Dawes is fit, Fitzy, Gawn ect may not have been ready round 1, or due to Sellars pre season form in crap games he got the nod. With 18 clubs there is only so much talent to go around , we arguably got the two biggest names the last two trade periods. I am still waiting for someone to tell me who we should have selected instead. I replied to R.Flowers comment on this thread with regards to Byrnes.

1- who should we have picked then?2- some of our kids aren't ready yet 3- players are selected for differant reasons. Hudson because Jolly is near the end and most likely only play in Melbourne. We selected Byrnes for entirely differant reasons as mentioned in my post. Obviously not the most skilful getting around, but doesn't panic on field, if he influences Viney, Toumpas ect in their training preparation that is a win that will pay off in the future. Not looking for an argument here but everyone talks about Junior and what a great leader he was, how long was he and the likes of Sylvia on the list together. I'm not saying Junior is the only one to blame, the fact your an AFL player should be motivation enough, then there's your coach and captain/ leadership group. But junior was there during a time when below par standards were seen as acceptable .Neitz was the last leader we had. Byrnes was brought in to be a much needed role model. Something we have clearly lacked.

I posted earlier in this thread about Hudson and Russell for the pies. In and out of their side. The Pies are a big powerful club, why didn't they pick up the likes of Goddard. Because there are 18 clubs and only so much talent. Some coaches back themselves in with regards to fringe players, sometimes they don't work out, even at the big clubs. The only aspect of long term view with regards to Byrnes and Rodan is that hopefully some of their experience/knowledge would/will rub off. Who should we have picked up?? He has already got two big forwards, Clarke was the biggest name to move two years ago. Not a lot happened last year .

Anyone read the team sheets?? Collingwood - out Hudson, Russell What was Buckley thinking?? Two washed up players in and out of the side. They are only there for depth, play a role, now it makes sense.

So Neeld can draft decent players,

Finally a real test for Richmond. I've tipped them to fail.

Crap, Watts needs to harden up. End of case. Neeld helped destroy so many careers at the pies as did Craig and Misson at their Clubs. Thats why other clubs were chasing all three. Jacks extra training should include boxing twice a week including sparing.

Morton is now at a top AFL club, he's not to late to be saved, if we were the problem. But I think he's got the same problem as Watts. If other clubs landed Watts where would he line up??

Not sure if you're referring to my post as a joke, but in response to yours- How is Cale Morton finding it in a top side?? Top sides don't gift players games but back themselves to turn careers around. We drafted Watts as a forward, with recent recruiting Neeld doesn't want him up there, reading pre season training reports he was the go to man coming out of defence....dropped after two games. He is running out of options. Neeld, Craig and Misson are not stupid, any chance Jack might be part of the problem. We often ask should we have traded Sylia while he still had youth on his side, lets learn from that.

No one doubts the ability he has, but there is no physical side to his game. With Hogan coming in next year he won't be returning forward, leave him at Casey for at least three weeks(considering how we are travelling to drop a player then rush them back after one decent game in the seconds defeats the purpose,and he hasnt even played one yet) then try him on a wing for a few weeks. If he plays to his potential he could become dangerous and prove a difficult match up. If not i have no problems trading him at years end, his no.1 pick status means nothing, he's still young enough for another club to think they could turn him around and could be part of a deal for a midfield player from a top 6 club with salary cap issues because Watts next contract won't be worth much. We've all seen how money can change people's minds.