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What areas do you think Watts will improve in?

Not sure what to make of "the burden of captaincy", does it affect your ability to kick the footy?

Thats the way another bottom 2 finish, just what this club needs.

Watch as the masses fall over themselves putting Newton into their SC teams. Sodd off we saw him first, well 2nd actually.

Watts is a tricky one for mine CBDees, some could argue every team has their out side players, some have argued on here even the Hawks have have theirs, but the difference is the outside players at teams like the Hawks run to position when setting up their zone, can lay an effective tackle, get the hard ball when needed. I gave an example in the "surprise packet thread" of how Watts continues to frustrate me. I don't expect Stretch or ANB to play seniors this year but if they show a fair bit in the reserves and Petracca and Brayshaw can show glimpse of why they came so hyped and Mitchie, Salem, Toumpas and Newton can take the next step I would seriously consider packaging up Watts and Grimes or just Watts in an attempt to secure a first round/ possibly top ten pick. They are both around that 23/24 age mark. I think we will rise up the ladder this year and if a trade like that was to happen it again gives us numerous options in the draft, remembering we have nailed the last two. You are required to draft a minimum number of kids per year, so if we keep the picks they might as well be first rounders and if the above mentioned players do take the next step I think Grimes will struggle to get s game.

He seems so composed, very much looks the goods.

And why would they? Jack Watts has elite disposal, has great footy smarts, lost track of how many times last year I've thought "who the f##k is that to" only for him to hit someone on the chest in heavy traffic or put the ball out in front of someone and into space. His work ethic at times is pathetic, was it last year Dawes has to sprint 30 odd metres past Watts to man up his man, we are all aware of these types of examples. I understand the difference positions but Watts takes outside to a new level. I've seen Watts in a two in one going for a loose ball, he was in perfect position to hit the jets grab the ball and sprint away, but because of the chance of contact he pulled up and waited for his teammate(can't remember who it was) to get the ball out to him, his teammate got the ball but also got tackled resulting in a ball up and everyone flooding back. People will argue he is playing his role but I think he is the exception to some of these "non negotiables". Struggles to lay an effective tackle. He has the potential to become elite but while he continues to search for kicks in the carpark of the MCG he will continue to cop flack here and at the game as an unfulfilled talent and his name will be brought up as we near each trade week. Just remember it wasn't that long ago Trengove was untouchable.

And how is that different from the Suns? Jones, Dunn and Jetta all had their best years last year, Roos won't allow them to rest on that. I'd pick Cross before Viney(2016 a different story)Pedo is another who improved last year. I want Howe up forward to provide another target along with Dawes so we aren't always going to Hogan. Plus we've drafted H, Garlett and Newton.

Yes and no but the key is and yes we're all aware that what makes them so good is their back flankers can use the footy as can their forward flankers. From reading training reports and other posts it seems we are heading down that track. Sounds like players are being told you need to be dual position, about bloody time.

Read post 276(my response to RPFC) in that I mentioned that Jones now thinks his way through situations. Then in post 289 I had to break it down for you so you could keep up, I used the term footy smarts ie thinking your way through situations. So I'm not pretending to do anything. Once again you are wrong, there's a theme emerging here.....can you pick it? Jones was 25 and had played 7 seasons under 4-5 coaches ,I've lost track, leading into last year. Seven seasons of trying and in some cases failing, so what changed? Enter Roos and Stone(again mentioned in post 276) and there is your answer. Stone's resume reads something like worked with the Hawks and the Swans. Yes I was and still am critical of Viney, players get 1 on 1 coaching with their line coaches and spend hours reviewing match footage, learn what works with similar type players and introduce that to your own game. If you think I'm being harsh ask the players if Roos minces his words when critiquing their petformances.The days of babying players is over. As the Hood eluded to in his post Jones in the past has had to carry the bulk of the load but now as we grow as a team and the load evens out we need to become smarter. The Hawks killed Sydney in last years GF, not just because they outmuscled them because they outsmarted them. They are a well drilled unit coached by one of the smartest blokes to sit in a coaches box. Again where did I sugguest players soften up as opposed to pick their moments? Gary Lyons books Specky Magee would be a great starting point for you to learn the game.

I use the term side step, you use the term elusive moves. Think your way through a pack/contested situation, a quick example would be Geelong doing 5-6 handballs in rapid succession to stationary teammates/sometimes moving until a loose player is found who can break away from the congestion. They perfected it, their first option wasnt always barge your way through.

My initial comments were responding to RPFC about players ability to improve. I made reference to Viney reminding me of a young Nate Jones, which he does. I went on to say that there's no need to try and barge you way through every contest. I went on to say that Jones now thinks his way through situations which he does. I'll break it down for you, "thinking your way through a situation" or in this case "footy smarts". The abilty to sum up the situation in a split second at times in heavy traffic and more often than not come out with the right option. Again sometimes the best option is to try and barge your way through but sometimes it's not, sometimes the best option is just a quick forward to clear the congestion and gain some ground, sometimes it's a sidestep or as some refer to it elusive moves which gets you free from would be tacklers and the possibility of free your hands up to off load a hand ball. In your response after you finished banging on about how you called it years ago, please note you called it wrong(again....if you are purely relying on barging your way through at every contest you will quickly get worked out and the opposition will shut you down). You then went on to say that the abilty to break a tackle is the no. 1 asset of any footballer(standing up under pressure and the abilty to break tackle are two different things). Thats when I said that having the abilty to kick is more important than the ability to break a tackle, I would also have footy smarts and love for the contest before abilty to break a tackle. A friend of mine who coached TAC under 16's attends AFL coaching clinics where current and former AFL coaches speak. Hawthorn recruiting manager spoke about Ckarko's directive, "find me kids who can kick the footy and love the contest", but then again what would Clarko know? You called it five years ago.Where did I suggest players soften up? I said think their way through situations which is completely different and its what Jones did last year making him a more dangerous footballer, not only having the ability to barge through and break a tackle but knowing when it's the right option. If you don't understand what I've written is there an older brother or sister at home or maybe mum and dad that could sit down and explain it to you?

I wonder how Pendlebury and Fyfe get by?.........

No I'm not serious I made it up. And yes having the ability to burst through a tackle is a great attribute to have but I would have after being able to kick the footy. What sets J.Selwood and Mitchell, J Kennedy(the penny dropped for Jones this year) and others apart is having the ability to think their way through what's before them. Sometimes trying to burst your way through is the best option but sometimes it's not, sometimes it's a sidestep, sometimes it's the give and get. If you are always relying on brut strength you will quickly get found out and found wanting as used to be the case for Jones. He has become a much smarter footballer and we are a better team for it. I think Viney will be a gun but as I said I see a lot of a young Nate Jones in him. Viney is always like a bull at a gate. I love the fact he's aggressive and takes the game on, but he just needs to pick his moments. We will see who's right in a few years.

Does he mean "the dont argue"?

Tyson - 21 years old, 35 games. An absolute gun who we are yet to see the best off.Viney - 20 years old, 33 games. Reminds of Jones in early days, no need to barge your way through every contest, McDonald - 22 years old 60 games holding down a key defensive post in a backline constantly under the pump. Jetta - 24 years old, 57 games. A breakout year at 24, an automatic selection and plans to work in his aerobic capacity during this off season. You talk about players improving from ages 21-24 then go on to say that the above mentioned are running near capacity? Nathan Jones turned 26 last year and for mine had his best season. I put this down to the coaching of Roos/Stone, having the likes of Vince, Cross and Tyson helping out but mainly he now starts to think his way through situation rather than barge his way through. Dunn is another senior player that took his game to a new level. I think Michie has the goods, has shown some glimpses, if he remains injury free this shapes up as a crucial year for him. As you've mentioned once their body fills out their confidence increases, good coaching/development helps, natural ability is another one, for as hard as Jordie try's he lacks class but the main one for me is "the want". The want to succeed, the want to be the best, the want to put your body on the line when it's your turn. Watts is a perfect example of someone who has endless improvement in front of him but doesn't "want it" enough. He holds his spot for now because of his elite disposal and awareness but in the next year or two could find himself overtaken by players with a skill set on par with his but they also pocess "the want".

I think the acquisition of McCartney is a godsend and that our younger players are in good hands with the current coaching set up from Roos all the way down to Byrnes. For me it's the players that have been on the list for a minimum of at least at least four or five seasons and have been treading water. I hope anyone that runs out for us does well but I think in some cases we've seen their best and they will be slowly filtered out.

The idea is a good one we just need to choose our words carefully.

I'm sick of needing someone's passing/milestone game/some other bloody reason for the players to have a crack, and what happens if we lose, then it's the whole we let him down thing. I'd go with "we will always remember you" rather than "for you".

Remembering we now have an 18 team competition. For a coupe of years the talent pool will thin out. Clubs look to mature players from the SANFL, WAFL ect. Some work out some don't. More than anything I hope last year marked the end of delisting 11 players every 12 months. As we try to put together our best 22 some players aren't guaranteed walk up starts anymore. We are starting to build some depth, finally.

Whats wrong with BBO'S ??

My understanding is that the mods aren't getting paid by the hour....plus there's nothing wrong with the odd citizens arrest. Some of the derailments are just an extension of the topic, I'd rather that then a new topic started every five minutes. When that is the case it's easy enough to follow.

JETTA FROST DUNNGARLAND MCDONALD TOUMPAS H JONES WATTS KENT PEDO VINCE GARLETT HOGAN HOWE JAMAR TYSON CROSS VINEY SALEM MICHIE PETRACCA Bit of a reshuffle, dropped Newton and brought in Garland. I've argued my points for and against to death. This is what I think we might look like as opposed to what I would do.

Cross is a gun, his ability to win the ball at stoppages is crucial for us. Yes we've drafted well but they're not there yet. This might be his last year but if fit he must play, I'd have him ahead of Viney at the centre bounces, most likely a different story next year.