Lucifers Hero

Yes, it was an ugly win but why are so many people complaining? Haven't we had enough ugly losses to last 10 lifetimes! I thought Cross summed it up well: “Winning ugly and winning pretty – it doesn’t matter, four points is exactly what we’re after.” Cross added the education from this win will be invaluable for the emerging Demons. “We’ll learn from it again and the coach (Paul Roos) has been great at educating us through the week, whether we win or whether we lose. Would imagine this (ugly) win will be great for player's morale, confidence and experience. Belief will build, the pretty wins will come. Like others on here, I will take any win we get

Cross was very glowing of Rawlings: "We’ve got some real chemistry going down there....“Jade is doing a terrific job with us, but we’re taking over that group now and coming up with vision and looking at other teams and how we want to perform as a unit – not just as individual. This sounds like the back six are taking ownership and leadership of themselves and coming up with their own work, research, tactics and not rely on the coach (Rawlings) to have all the ideas...a real sign of team maturity. This is where the real benefit of experienced players, with the right attitude, who have played in successful (finals) teams kicks in. Lumumba and Cross will leave a legacy far more than we can see on any game day.

I like that Roos kept the same (losing) team and backed them in. Great for player and team belief. They repaid the faith today.

A better team yes, but Geelong had no ruckman and the Lions have 2 that are in decent form. Also the average age of our centre and wingmen is 30! Even with rotations I think we will struggle to win clearances in the midfield and stoppages and then we will get limited inside 50's.. 40/60 game Dees/Lions.

Would agree with that. In a shallow draft Roos may prefer to get an FA in instead of a comp pick, if Garland goes. For those interested here is the list of 2015 FA's http://www.afl.com.au/trade/free-agency Not many goodies left for Roos to choose from. Kreuzer is in negotiations with Carlton Leuenberger, Selwood and Dangerfield tipped to go to Geelong Suckling has been linked to Lions Roos is probably creating a smokescreen with his FA comments! Probably has some surprises in store!

Reasons for not playing out 4 quarters: "It's usually fitness or leadership, and it could be a bit of both," he said… "When you say fitness, it doesn't just mean someone can't run, maybe they're not ready for the rigours of four quarters of AFL footy. "The other part is leadership. "If you have young men, they can't organise themselves quickly for long periods of time, they get disorganised around stoppages and things like that. "That's a sign of leadership, which again could be an age issue, or a bunch of older players that aren't delivering on those leadership issues." That is quite true of us! But it was said by Leppitsch about the Lions. Leppitsch went onto say: “Sunday's match against Melbourne presented his team with its best chance in a month to win...” He will have them primed...we better turn up for 4 qtrs and our leaders do their part.

I find the underlying, unquestioned assumption of the article (which may not be in the book) as incredibly condescending to Aussie Rules fans: the portrayal of fans as ‘observers’ who cannot understand the on field tactics in ‘real time’ without the benefit of the likes of Rohan Connolly, Gerard Healy or Champion Data stats is, well is just WOW! The writer appears to not been to a footy game and filled in the stats page of The Record in times past, nor used their mobile phones for stats today. Rudimentary yes, but to say fans are observers who cannot understand what is happening before their eyes, please!! The writer fails to differentiate about a fan's understanding of the game and the style of play they like to see. Many of the coaching examples in the article are really about game style as a spectacle rather than fans not understanding what was happening on the field. There may be a need for Coventry’s book about a history of tactics in Aussie Rules. However, that the great Norm Smith and Checker Hughes are not mentioned in the article (they might be in the book) among ‘all the coaching legends’ just shows how little these guys know about the evolution of Aussie Rules or its tactics. While reading the article, I had the image of an Aussie Rules fan being a pair of eyes without a brain attached!!!

An update on other club interest is some players mentioned by posters: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/fremantle-in-talks-for-gold-coast-forward-charlie-dixon-20150715-gid747.html Summary: Charlie Dixon suitors: Freo, Crows, Lions Leunberger suitors: Cats Suckling suitors: Lions (Suckling a FA and still uncontracted) Treloar suitors: Pies, Tigers, North (Pies tipped to get him) Also, earlier this week I heard that Carlisle is a lock to go from Bombers to Blues. So that is a few players off some 'wish lists'. As it looks likely that we get Dion, the midfield is still our priority. This will cost our first pick (at least) so it limits our ability to trade in, another high quality player eg a forward, forward/ruck.. Hopefully, our recruiters can pull off a Vandenberg type find, or do a 2 for 1 trade (eg Toumpas and Howe for player X), or they have confidence in one of our developing players, to fill the positions we are poor in.

To give credit where credit is due, 'Sir Paul Roos' called Dion a month ago. Here is his PM: Sent 15 June 2015 - 05:59 PM Dion is the one I'm confident of...

IMO until Hogan consistently kicks goals from 45m to 50m out, he should play out of the square (FF) and lead to the ball carrier. That's not a criticism just a development thing.

We can shoot the messenger, But again we are 4W/10L and 4th bottom. Sure we may win a few more games but so will other teams. So, again we will end the season in the be bottom 4. Robbo simply wrote what everyone on DL has been saying, He may have even copied DL! Yes, we can shoot the messenger, But lets get our heads out of the sand!

I agree with you there UH. But today I heard part of a Roos interview where he said 'the ladder doesn't lie'. So I suspect our coaches would agree with Robbo's comments. Robbo said he will take Roos to task on 360 tonight. He is such a soft 'journo' I doubt we will get much from Roos.

Howe cleared! Now we can see whether the coaches do what Nth did and make an example of players...they dropped Edwards and made Harvey the sub. WC did the same with Selwood a few weeks ago. Time that there was some consequence of players who aren't doing their job are held accountable

Some encouraging words about Harmes on our website: "He wasn’t best-on-ground and didn’t kick a bag, but there was plenty to like about James Harmes’ first AFL match. The rookie had nine touches, threw his body in and gave a couple of strong bumps and made a few tackles, giving the Melbourne fans another youngster to keep an eye on...' He did better in half a game than some of his teammates who played the whole game!! I thought the intention was always to play Harmes for 1/2 the game (as most of debutantes have this year). So he was to either start as the sub or lined up to be subbed out. I would be surprised if he didn't know, that he would be subbed out, before the game started. Doubt he will be dropped...maybe share the sub vest with one of the other 1st year players.

Dees2014, what makes you think that Hird and Reid will be called to/allowed to be witnesses? And how are they relevant to the specific appeal against the players or Danks? I would have thought if ASADA had a skerrick of evidence against Hird and Reid they would have already used it. Keep in mind WADA can bring in new evidence only if it was not known at the time of the AFL Tribunal. Don't see it happening, tbh.

Today, Freo's aging list caught up with them. They had 2 less days rest after last weeks game which was a heavy slog followed by a long flight to Tassie. A younger Freo would have been a better match today so surprised Lyon didn't rest some of the older guys. Hawks are very good but the final score was not realistic of the two team's capabilities. Top 4 positions wide open now.

On Ch7 this morning Goodwin was asked about the list turnover...about 22 in last 2 years and maybe another 12-14 coming up (before he takes over in 2017). Goodwin said: yeah that is a huge change. My take was that the players we on DL complain about will be gone end of 2016. So any player coming our of contract in 2015, 2016 is in strife if they can't become a regular 22. We have enough newer Roos recruits for depth to not keep the pre Roos NQRs. I then wondered if, given this year is a shallow draft and the lack of trade value of many of our NQR player, we could see all 4 rookies upgraded. Then bring in 4 new rookies that we can groom and have a good look at. Would be quite happy with all 4 rookies to be upgraded to seniors eos. BTW Bernie was asked about the 'mansion' he has bought a few doors from Roos' house. In his cheeky style Bernie said it was the old wooden shack at the back. Allowing for any sort of house in the area is $1m+ it was interesting that Bernie is settling into Melb.

GWS 6 goals up on Saints at half time! That and yesterdays game, shows what a ridiculous result the Saints vs Ess was last week. We didn't take Ess seriously enough.

Not really. He was in and out of the pies side and not always because of injury. He wasn't ever a key forward - Cloke and Brown were ahead of him. Dawes was a 3rd forward decoy. His best goal kicking was 30 in 2010, and 27 in 2011. Those included finals and the GF replay in 2011. He has had a calf problem since 2011. His effort and attitude are great. But there isn't anything in his career that suggests he is or will come good. For us he has been an expensive 1st or 2nd forward decoy. Jesse will be a champ but he doesn't need a decoy he needs real help up forward. IMO Dawes isn't that person as yesterday showed.

The only reason ANB, Stretch or Harmes should be go back to Casey is if the coaches said...we will play you for X games then give you a 'recovery' game or 2 at Casey. ie # of sequential games played is part of their development. No point having them in and out of the team like yo-yo's. Its no way to build form or confidence or trust.

The Walsh family had a small private funeral yesterday. I hope the crows can come out and do what Port did last night and play out of their skins. Barracking for Crows tonight. Wish them well, whatever the result.

Tired of focusing on our misery...Suns giving doggies a football lesson!

Probably watched more football than you over the last 50 years! Hogan was thrashed no matter how you look at it: in the air, on the ground, in contests and in hunger! You don't want to see it well that is up to you. But as I said he is a kid and he will learn.

Lets face it stuie most of our players were shite! There really wasn't any player (except Gawn) who won their position. Basically the whole team let us down!! Crap result for a team that played like crap!

Too many apologies for Hogan. Hurley had 9 marks and 24 kicks to Hogan's 6 and 13. It wasn't the delivery today. But he is a kid, he will learn...I hope