Lucifers Hero

ASADA has 21 days to appeal (to AFLTribunal Appeal). If they do not WADA can appeal straight to the CAS. And, CAS is a fully fledged court of law, I believe. Apparently, CAS has a different criteria to 'comfortable satisfaction' that puts some onus on the players to disprove the allegation (please correct if wrong). CAS would also establish 'precedence' from the body of previous cases, in applying WADA rules. Essentially, CAS would hear it as a new case WADA has probably had a gutful of AFL/EFC manouvres, (so will most likely skip the ASADA appeal) and head straight to CAS. Getting this case into a new jurisdiction is the only way Australia can be confident (and reassure world sport) that its athletes/players are not cheats! Edit: Going to CAS, to me, is more about the standing of sport in Australia than seeking to punish players or EFC further. If it doesn't get to CAS there will always be a ? against Australian athletes. If it goes to CAS, even if it finds in favour of the players, justice will seen to have been done, by other sports and countries. Only then can everyone really move on. d

A good summary of the appeal status: ASADA can only go to AFL Tribunal to appeal but WADA can go straight to CAS. Also, new grounds for appeal (post Jan 1 2015) look interesting: "Now the appeal can be made because a party wants the matter heard by a different panel. It is known in law as an appeal de novo and means that the appeal is conducted as a completely new hearing of the evidence. It also means that the first hearing does not "limit the evidence or carry weight in the hearing before the appeal board..the scope of any review is not limited to what the previous tribunal had hear" (Michael Gleeson, The Age) Some slim hope for sanity to prevail!

Another lesson: play a Sgt Schultz game and 'I know nothing'...least of all don't tell the truth, as Lees unfortunately did.

Oh My Goodness! You mean the witnesses were silenced !!

I only read the thread when it was up. Absolutely no idea if it was a rubbish post or not.

Yes, we should be worried if a now deleted thread on Demonology was to be believed.

I for one will never again go to EFC Home games!! To do so would be to contribute to the financial coffers of that despicable club. Maybe all supporters of the other 17 clubs should boycott EFC Home games!!!

Quote: Watson, who is the father of current skipper Jobe, told radio station SEN that he was experiencing a lot of emotions but that he was "relaxed". "I believe that there will be a not guilty [verdict]," he said "I believe that because I am privy to a lot of what has taken place to this point in terms of the evidence. "On that alone I'm confident that the players wont be found guilty." He also said that one of the tribunal members has a reputation of his decisions being very hard to appeal against. More softening up! This isn't the first time in the last few weeks, that he has come out with 'his predictions'. He might be the father of the captain but surely that does not give him the right to use (abuse) private info to make public statements in his employed position as a member of the press. The press is supposed to have been 'shut out'. It seems Watson has continued the EFC 'snubbing' the official process to achieve EFC spin (and protect his son's brownlow). And no-one (ie AFL) has tried to stop him. There seems to be no limit to EFC arrogance. I just hope he is proved wrong today.

The heart of the EFC issue: '... the case either suggests the club did know what was in the drug and are not telling or they did not know what was in it and injected them anyway...' http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-drugs-saga-clearing-players-and-clearing-club-not-the-same-thing-20150330-1mbao8.html It is completely reprehensible that they 'know and won't tell' and totally immoral that they 'didn't know and injected them anyway. While indefensible I can understand why the AFL (are selfishly) trying to minimise the 'brand' damage and taking a soft approach to EFC. But as we saw yesterday with the 2 pies players the AFL 'can run but cannot hide'. It will keep happening! Hopefully the latest cases spur the AFL to start a major 'No Drugs In Sport' campaign. They need to get the message out to kids and junior league staff/coaches of the dangers to health and sporting careers (and not wanting to be known as cheats)!

Good question R & B. I recall EFC saying that the dog ate the documents . Agree, eventually the AFL will need to take a stand. There will come a point where protecting EFC to protect the AFL will be counterproductive and more damaging.

Matthew Lloyd is living in la la land: "It makes me wonder whether the AFL, Essendon or ASADA will be equipped to handle the tidal wave of anger and emotion in the event of a guilty verdict. " http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/game-faces-threats-and-the-league-must-respond-20150328-1m8s5w.html What about the tsunami of anger and emotion from the other 17 clubs and supporters in the event of a not guilty verdict, Mr Lloyd!!! Such a tsunami would be a much greater threat to the AFL and the game, than 34 players having their reputations tarnished and a short holiday from the game. I don't know what he is smokin but he has no grasp on what people outside EFC are thinking. Delusional, like the rest of them!!

I'm not optimistic that the 34 players will be found guilty based on that article as there may not be enough proof for 'guilty'. AFL/EFC come out of it (for a while at least) with a PR campaign of 'we told you so' soft story while ASADA/WADA are left to be the bad guys who have to do the dirty work and appeal. The AFL are missing another opportunity to fly the 'no drugs in sport' banner. Interestingly, it is Bomber Thompson who has and still is the one flying this flag: "The new Fox Footy commentator says there is no place in football for supplements program..." http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/mark-thompson-says-essendon-players-should-be-cleared-have-been-treated-very-poorly/story-fndv8gad-1227281914470 Reading between the lines he thought something very dodgy was happening. Notwithstanding WADA appealing with all guns blazing, if Tuesday goes for the players it will be a terrible 'whitewash' and a terrible message from the AFL. To the world at large (and kids) it may look like 'its ok if you scr-w up just don't get caught'. Terrible!

Probably the beginning of many out of court, player settlements as EFC will refuse to hand over incriminating documents. EFC will do everything it can to stop the shxx hitting the fan. Doubt those documents will see the light of day.

That's probably why EFC settled out of court with Robinson, for $1m or $2m...keep the skeletons in the closet!

Xarron and others make some good points. The AFL is not to blame for kids using drugs in sport or anywhere. However, there have been various times where an AFL player has been in the public eye over a drug issue. The AFL did not take those opportunities to take a public stand and condemn drugs. I don't recall a 'No drugs in sport' commentary from them. Maybe Andy D said it once or twice re EFC saga, not sure. I commend the AFL for their public stand and campaigns on racial abuse, gay rights, women in the AFL, indigenous players in the AFL etc. They have been excellent in publicly supporting a range of social issues in sport. But they have publicly remained silent when it came to condemning drugs in sport/AFL. One would be forgiven in thinking it is paying lip service to the problem. Some would think trying to sweep it under the carpet. Others may think the silence is tacit acceptance. By staying silent there hasn't been leadership coming from the AFL. Would it make a difference to junior AFL. Who knows. Has the horse bolted? Maybe I was hasty in making that comparison. But the AFL need to find their voice and have a 'no drugs in sport' public campaign because as Pigdog noted the problem at junior and country AFL has been known for several years. 'No drugs in sport' needs to be a new mantra by the AFL. It will take some courage (and slick PR) to do that in the aftermath of the EFC saga but it does need to take leadership on a major issue already affecting its future players.

The 'chickens came home to roost' this week for the AFL. It is no coincidence that coaches in junior leagues are giving kids drugs (ice) before play to enhance performance. As if coaches (in general) see Hird get away with it then they will take their chances. A terrible legacy from the Ess saga If the AFL had taken a tougher stand with Cousins, West Coast Eagles, listened to Dale Lewis, etc etc they may have been able to contain it. The horse has now bolted and young kids who should be playing footy for fun are going to be hooked on a nasty, highly addictive substance.

No need to be insulting Seraph. And, the 'please' doesn't detract from the insult. People around here are too quick to jump to conclusions sometimes.

I can see a box that says 2014 but the only 2 scarves that are visible do not. Nor do those 2 scarves say 'Member'. Every 'Member' scarf I have ever had has this and the year on it. So can't see how it can be concluded that they are 2014 'Member' scarves. Also, the brochure is a leaflet conveniently positioned between boxes. Look at the 1st and 3rd pic closely. In the 1st the scarves are well below the rim on the right side of the dumpster. On the 3rd they are overflowing. Sorry, the pics just don't add up. Not doubting you or your mate but I shall remain the 'doubting Thomas' on this one and refrain from blaming the club.

Yes, they have made it clear they will review the whole thing and it looks like they will come out with all guns blazing! "We will review the entire investigation when all the cases that have resulted from it have been completed," Howman said. "We will discuss all elements with the Australian government and ASADA." Ha! Won't be engaging at all with the AFL! Big fish in little pond becomes a tadpole in the WADA ocean! ASADA, being a gov't agency is effectively gagged. Unlike EFC who use for News Ltd to peddle its BS. If nothing else it puts everyone on notice, especially the AFL, to watch its narrative next week. Looks like WADA are up for the fight! Hooray!

I'm just wondering if this isn't a bit of a practical joke...read the brochure in the last pic It says "handle with care, keep frozen at -18". That looks more than a tad suss to me - as if it has been deliberately put there. Also, while the box says 2014 the scarf doesn't...why would we ditch scarves that are still current. If it isn't a practical joke, I can't imagine they came from the club, more likely the mailing house or the importer/wholesaler. I don't think those dumpsters were at the MCG. Nay, I smell a rat here! Let's not be so quick to dump on the club. Excuse the pun!

Our leadership group is failing us during games! No, I don’t mean their respective performance, effort or skill in games; most of them had good games last night. I mean their seeming inability to manage the team on the field. Surely at training, we have practiced and practiced and practiced what to do when the momentum starts to shift. But our leadership group go into ‘brain-freeze’ mode and by the time they snap out of it the game is all but gone. It happened vs WB and vs EFC. Our younger plays sense it then they freeze up. Then it looks like the whole team is mentally fragile. (It makes me wonder whether we have runners going out during games with ‘snap out of it’ words). Where was the encouragement to young guys when they made a mistake or looked uncertain? Tyson, Toumpas, Hogan, Viney, Bail looked like they needed some help last night and could have done with a pat on the back or a few confidence building words. I cannot criticise the games of these 19 to 21 year olds when our leaders are not mentally supporting them on the field. Where are the on-field ‘Line Generals’ who call their troops together or help them take correct positions when needed? Where is the ‘talk’? We have 6 players in the Leadership Group but no one seemed to call the shots out there last week or last night. We need them to find their ‘voice’, to support the young guys, to quickly recognise momentum shifts and then implement the practiced strategies. Leaders need to stay vigilant and alert to what is happening around them and harness their troops quickly. Until these happens, I fear that no matter how good or how skilled we are we won’t win many games.

The Very Good: Garlett's 4 goal haul - a feat no Dees player managed in 2014 The Good: Lumumba, Garlett, VanD and Watts had good games. The Bad: Not being able to recognise or stop the momentum swing. The Ugly: The Leadership Group didn't function.

Lets give him the benefit of the doubt - Maybe he still has a sore foot form the freo game.

This is f......g frightening because in rounds 5 - 9 we play mostly 2014 top 8 teams...we could be 0 to 11 at the half way mark. I desperately hope you are wrong.

No-one. Just Nasher showing some self deprecating humour!