The heart beats true

I'm not convinced about James. I think he really gets the most out of himself but I would have thought as the club moves forward he's going to struggle. He just doesn't look dynamic enough to hold his spot in an improving team. His contested marking isn't where it needs to be and his foot skills and decision making are below what they should be. Hopefully we can move away from players that are good spoilers or simply compete in the air. We need to find another big bodied player that can take a mark and adds more structure as opposed to filling a gap. I do agree that he deserves another contract extension because up against big forward lines (North, WCE) he will be needed next year. 1 year and see what comes after that.

Gee thanks for explaining how the club is going to get better next year. Maybe Beamer and Cale Morton will really turn it around. And if your opinion of footballers is based on footy forums then we shouldn't have gone anywhere near Mitch Clark, Nathan Jones would have been delisted 3 years ago, and Juice Newton would be our starting CHF.

I don't really understand the logic of this thinking. We have the worst midfield in the league and a non existent forward line (except for a bloke that wasn't with us last year) and folks are debating if we should take proven experienced players from other clubs? We should try and get both Cloke and Goddard. That's too blokes the opposition have to worry about. Right now the 2 players that are filling their spots in the team are James Sellar (Big bodied forward) and Joel Mac (Link up defender) or Beamer (Inside/Outside mid). Not sure that many sides are too concerned about lining up against those players. Before you get stuck into what we might get, look at what we have.

Agreed. James Sellar and Joel MacDonald are the proof in our half baked pudding.

Moneyball as applied in the movie is a concept that doesn't hold up quite as well in a sport reliant on team players working together as opposed to the more unique individual aspects of Baseball (which is not to say Baseball isn't a team sport, just that it is a very different one than football field team sports). I agree with the idea of thinking in a wider sphere as outlined by some above, but really it seems like this is a term that gets trotted out with little to no relevance to the way our game is played. What next? Are we going to draft a 'Rudy' type to inspire the boys? I'm more in favor of 'Dawn of the Dead' list kill off.

Yeah Joel Mac breaks my heart. He is everything the club needs in terms of endeavour and effort but is sadly lacking in skills. We can't have him, Barty, Dunne, Bail, Bate and Sellar on the one list. I think he'll stay as he gets his hands on the ball and I think he deserves another year but if we start moving forward he's going to struggle as he's a finger in the dam wall type. Once we start improving he's just holding up the development of someone else.

This is a joke right? How is Cook developing? I think you might wanna watch some VFL and reassess. Struggling big time.

Actually BH for me it does make him a better leader. Runs on the board mean you can turn around and ask hard questions of your team mates when they need to be asked. I doubt Barry Hall can do that given his history (and I like Hall but if he questioned me on discipline there would be a little nagging voice in the back of my head). Too often we mistake big words and big gestures behind closed doors for leadership when the fact of the matter is that football is a game played for 2 hours a week and it's during that time that players get to show their best.

Based on the Swan off field issues and the Cloke distraction all year Cloke has to go now. If he signs on at the end of the season it will only be forgiven if they win the flag this year. Otherwise if I was playing with him I'd be very dirty on the distraction it's created all year and the undue pressure he's placed on himself and the team. I'd say he's a certainty to leave now, and I think the Pies know it.

I'm not a Schwab fan but if you seriously think our playing group from today would beat Collingwood tonight if only he wasn't CEO then your drunk. North have had very few injuries all year and have a playing group with an average of 50+ games on our current group.

If I must explain (this is Melbourne forum right?) Neitz was a 300 game player and the longest leader at the MFC. He could win a game of his own boot (unlike Maxwell), and he was aggressive while maintaining discipline (unlike Hall). He lead from the front which is exactly what our club has always and continues to need. Wonder what big Jolly things right now with the Pies being sticked in the middle against North? Pity about Swanny isn't it?

Agreed. He's so bitter and I don't understand why. It's like he wasn't popular at high school and now he has to rub it in our face. He could have very easily ended up at the Bulldogs and North Melbourne and been safely shunted on to the scrap heap of ex players that never achieved a flag. He's a decent player that got lucky in 2 drafts and now he thinks he's an expert on leadership as a result. I'd take David Neitz as a captain and leader over both Barry Hall and Nick Maxwell but I guess Darren wants to ignore that.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-get-in-games-spirit-20120815-24929.html At the bottom of the article. Sounds promising.

Drafting boys based on what they'll be in 5 years is a gamble. Living at home and playing footy for fun with your mates at 17 is very different to having to organize your life and compete against grown bodies that'll do anything to beat you. I find this talk about young potential draftees by most supporters (elite skills, natural leader, future 200 gamer) is the root of the problem. We are feeding the beast. It's obvious that a lot of the players on our list are suffering from thinking they succeeded too soon and as a result they don't go on. Let's all remember this come October when a new round of kids come to the club.

I thought recent comments by McLardy alluded that the Dees may be moving away from Cloke and focussing on mids. I saw this as a big play for Boak. I say Cloke goes to Carlton. He'd look very money hungry if he came to us where if he goes to Carlton he can make the argument about chasing success. He's probably also really impressed with their culture of not tanking

I played footy against his brother as a jnr and then with him for a little while when I was older. He really developed into a good player and was very hard at it. I like the look of his kid brother. I'd trade Bail for him. I don't see Bail's skill level improving and I don't see him winning enough inside ball. Caddy is a no brainer in that swap.

Well then unfortunately we got a dud and my theory doesn't hold up. I blame Neeld.

I had no idea I've been preparing for knee surgery the last 10 years.

Why can't this thread read 'Does the rise of McDonald spell the end for Sellar?' I like Rivers. He has a crack and is an honest footballer with the right temperament for our development. I say keep him for a year if we can get away with it (meaning he doesn't get 2 years from someone else as a FA).

Again, hindsight is 20/20. I can guarantee you that Jolly wouldn't have written this article had they been beaten on Saturday without Swan playing. It's easy to talk up your culture and look the hero when you have a flag, unless of course your the WCE's of only 6 years ago. Worst culture of the passed 30 years and premierships to show for it. Just goes to show that good players that play hard is really what's at the core of a winning culture. I'm sick of Jolly taking cheap shots at Melbourne. I'm sorry we drafted him and gave him a lot more opportunity then he warranted as a kid. Can he please get over it already? Jnrmac, sorry mate, missed the brackets and was genuinely wondering if I was missing something in the article. I'm not sure that this really proves much about Col Syliva though. Based on the same theory Swan won't make it and neither will the Shaws. Not all players can be leaders, some just need to put their head down and get on with it and I'll come to Col's defence here and say that I think he's working on that side of his life.

Where does he mention Sylvia, or even allude to him?

Hindsight is 20/20. Jurrah and Petterd looked like different players at the end of 2010. All drafting is is a series of 'if's' anyways. If Darling came to Melbourne would he be the player he is now? Based on the reality of the other 'if's' you'd have to say no he wouldn't be. Based on the same logic should we just take the best kid this year even if said kid is a light weight outside type? I think we'd have a mutiny on our hands.

Really good points. If Jurrah was fit, Petterd and Syliva delivered on talent and Dunn and Bate were up to it then Darling would have been a wasted pick. Gysberts has had a bad year with injuries and deserves more time. Cook looks like a waste. Struggling in the VFL. A little off topic but does this not make the argument for a stand alone reserves team? When I was playing TAC cup back in the day the AFL reserves comp used under 18's kids to fill up the side and get a look at them against men. That's why I like Viney playing against big bodies now. I think the kids coming from WA and SA have this advantage too. I think Cook would have been sorted out a bit more.

I just don't get this anxiety. It's pretty obvious to me we aren't playing finals next year either. I'd say a realistic goal is 8-10th. That's a big step in the right direction given we'll still be a very young list at the end of next year. So what point is Greeny serving for the club by playing next year? I think we can safely say that he's a great bloke but probably not a natural leader (those at the club certainly showed they think this when Grimes and Trengove became captains). His spot can be filled by a younger body that's not able to run through the midfield yet, while Clark, Howe and a draftee are marking options. Instead of hand wringing and finger pointing lets acknowledge that his time was up BUT that we really appreciate his service to the club. If you want to do something to thank him and help the club go to the Adelaide game.

He looks a player to me. A mix of in and outside. I think he's at a perfect age for us to develop him with out new midfield. I do think he's 3-5 years off his best which is great if he gets there but he needs someone to show him the way. We really need an experienced midfielder that lifts the workload from day one. If we can get someone like that (Boak) and then Caddy and Viney I'm very happy. If it's 3 more young blokes I still have concerns that they don't have enough on field leaders in the middle.