rjay

Yep. I will judge these guys on what they have done and the current crop if and when they get there http://www.afl.com.au/aflhq/awards/halloffame/legends/tabid/855/default.aspx

Agree with you on these Adam. I still think Ablett is the best going around but Cotchin is the future or should it be Selwood?

If Jetta hadn't taken a dive then Joel Mac wouldn't have been tripped up on top of him. Maybe Joel should have received the free for a trip James?

Yep, as I've said earlier I think he will stay so I guess we are talking about the principle here. The developing midfield group you've mentioned plus players like Frawley, Watts, Garland, Blease, McDonald as a group are where the value is in my opinion and I wouldn't like us to tip the balance by bringing in a Cloke and risk loosing one or a couple of these guys or to cause some dissent in the group as a whole. I also think there may be opportunties to pick up a good young GC or GWS player that would be a better fit that we may miss or a Freo player if Cloke does move there. You asked whether I thought we would be a stronger chance for a flag with a Cloke, Clark forward line and midfield maturation and I guess this is the argument. My concern is that it would bring disharmony to the group and be conterproductive. So I only think we would be a stronger chance if we could guarantee everything would be happy and all the players were on the same track, I just don't think it would be the case.

No mate no long bow the point is simple, I don't think Cloke is the right fit for us. To me we would be putting to much into one player. It obviously didn't escape you at all.

...and the only 2 teams that do according to your criterea are both struggling. Anyway, this is a round about way of saying that in my opinion Cloke would not be a good get for us. I think we are better to build from within through development and recruiting and maybe pickup a player along the way who is not demanding the $'s that Cloke is believed to be after. I know a lot think he is worth it but I don't, it's just an opinion neither right or wrong. We probably won't get a chance to test it anyway as I think he will stay a pie, now that one we can test.

The point is their midfield is streets ahead of ours at the moment, let's not get in the classification argument again.

I'm not so sure about that, I guess it's the old Chinese whispers thing, but I didn't hear him as being adamant at all. It sounded to me as more of an ambit claim, but let's wait and see. If he holds off until the end of the season you would think he is gone otherwise he will be signing in the next month and staying.

I think you are pretty much on the money so to speak.

I think you might be under rating Priddis quite a bit. He is one of the top mids in the game now and Kerr on his day really gives them a lift, we don't have anyone anywhere near that level. I agree with you that they are a vey even side.

My point is we've fired our shot with Clark, he's our Ottens if you like. Geelong then had Mooney (later Pods), a good handy player but no star and Hawkins, a kid still developing they didn't go and shell out the big bucks for Brown. Is there another Mooney or Pods out there, can Cook, Sheahan or Watts be the Hawkins. Cloke is what 25yo now and will be 26 at the start of next season, 5 years is way to long for a player of his type. Brown is now past his best at 30, still a good player, love him but a shadow of his former self. These guys break down at a younger age because of all the bash and crash and the weight they carry (Fletcher, Bartlett, Tuck, Bradley haven't had to carry that weight around the ground that's why they lasted so long apart from being more than average players) the other side of 27 is downhill for a CHF, ask Dermie.

It's not negative comments re Cloke as such from me, it's more that I don't think it's the best use of cash. Yes you do need to spend $$ to win flags but name the last team to win a flag with one player earning far and above what anyone else in the team were getting. It certainly wasn't Geelong, Collingwood or Hawthorn. The money has been spent on facilities, development, recruiting and the like with the salary cap being well spread among the group.

I just think it tips the scale out of balance, if we are paying a player over odds it effects the team dynamic. Geelong built a team culture and players were payed under their market value to hold that team, no player would have accepted that deal if say Ablett was on a huge contract, that's why Geelong had to let him go. They lost their star and still won another flag. Collingwood have kept their stars on lesser money that's also why they won't pay Cloke what others will offer, it tips the balance. He knows this and it is more likely he is really pushing for the extra year. If he gets 5 he stays at the money offered. I'm for building from within as you state you are and I also like you think if we find a good fit we need to look at the player but not at the risk of the team. Players will be falling out from GC at the end of this year and GWS the next, lets not blow it all on one man. I don't think the money and term that is being quoted for Cloke is worth it. In fact I think it is a beat up to be truthful.

Not my point, the point is that we got no team or club success by recruiting big names no matter how well they played. Big Carl is another example, no finals, no premierships. We don't need to blow our budget on a big star, lets build our club properly this time, it will turn around a lot quicker than most think.

No we're not, but you learn from them...and by the way have a look at Carlton and to a lesser extent GC. Judd and Ablett, both clubs are way to conscious of their star recruits and it effects their teams. When Geelong recruited Ottens he was an unfulfilled talent at the Tiges, he had the ability but wasn't getting it together on a consistant basis. I see the same with Clark, a good pick up who will develop into a very important player at our club. To lock in to a long term deal with Cloke would cost us too much and hamstring our ability to find other players and retain players who would be much more valuable to us, besides if it means having David around the club we can do without him. Denhams line of thinking is way different to mine, he thinks we are way off the pace, I don't. I like you believe we can turn things around quickly it's just that I think we are better off developing our own. We pick up Viney in this draft and if we can pick up someone like Toumpas to add with Grimes, Gysberts, Jones, Trengove, Blease, Taggert and co. we will be ok. Sheahan is the wildcard by the way, keep an eye on this rookie, very athletic tall with top level kicking skills both sides.

Not sure about this, he seems to have had conflict with the football manager at North. Healthy debate is fine but I would be concerned he may have been getting too involved in FD business. Sound familiar?

Same, I think he has no idea. He decided on the Friday night after his stupid comments to back them up with facts. No facts just lack of homework as usual, for one he said only 4 players on the list had changed under Neeld and 11 under Hardwicke. Well I'm not sure about Hardwicke but I know there were 8 changes to our list, I also know that under a compromised draft Neeld couldn't just empty our the list last year with GWS taking the cream. Kept going on about recruiting a 25 year old in Clark, I know it's not a big deal but he is 24. Facts, I'm only dealing in facts says King What a drop kick.

We are not in the right part of the cycle to go for a Cloke, a club like Carlton if they could afford him are an ideal fit. We need to build from within and both Lucas Cook and Jai Sheahan are in the system, Jai is being played down back at the moment but was a KPF at the Falcons. I really believe in the Geelong model of building your own with the odd nudge, Ottens for them Clark for us. I'm also old enough to remember Templeton, Moore, Tilbrook etc waiting for the messiah, all the eggs in the one basket whatever you choose to call it football is a team game. Build a strong list not blow it all on one player.

Interesting to hear McCartney talking on "On the Couch" tonight. He was saying that the so called loose defender is more often than not a peel off defender, it's not an easy position as some think and it takes a lot of experience to play this role, he needs to make the decision when to go and when to stay, rates Enright as the best at it. Watts seems a natural in this role, to me he just needs to take the game on a bit more and become an effective attacking defender if that makes sense.

No he copped a good knee in the groin (that's what the cricket commentators say isn't it) when Joel fell on top of him. Serves him right for taking a dive. The review panel is making itself a laughing stock.

McKenzie to Thomas now and he hates a tag (last year Dockers), likes to run with an unaccountable eg Ablett, Dangerfield

Brian Taylor = Rex Hunt with hair.

Grimes - future A grader (More consistant game time and he will be one of the top players in the comp) Blease - play the percentages (Sam tries to thread the needle too much at times, tries for the impossible, with experience he could become anything) Watts - he can play (time for the critics to get off his back) Neeld - resolve under pressure (no honeymoon period for the coach, he has stood up well. Will take us a long way, hopefully to the ultimate prize)

Love Nicho but thought his confidence took a big dive after the Geelong game last year. It's a tough game and he needs to push himself 100% of the time and he will make it onto the senior list as a good player for us. He really works hard and has pace to burn, he has a good long kick but as is mentioned sometimes misses the mark. Plenty of room for improvement and the temperament to make the improvement.

I would have thought so; makes a good story though.