rjay

I would say it's a very good indicator. We were easily scored against and we had trouble scoring, our skills were poor, we had no system and we got beaten. Basically from the prelim on we have been a dogs breakfast. You've got a blind spot on the skill errors, they're only part of the issue.

To me Smith is still a lot like Frost... Athlete not a footballer, he's done nothing yet to show me he will address a lot of our deficiencies. When used as a forward last season his running patterns were poor and he ended up competing with teammates for the same ball. We have this same problem now, he will not fix it only add to it unless he can learn to create space for himself. He does have the pace to seperate himself from his opponent I just don't think he has the game sense to be able to do it. ...and while we're on speed, which you seem so hung up about. Speed in football is not just about straight line pace. Frost, Smith & Hunt have it but none are good quality AFL players, probably all decent VFL players. Speed in football is a lot to do with quick and accurate ball movement, and quickness of mind to make decisions. Of course it helps to have a line breaker or two but it's not the be all and end all, you can cut the lines with smart ball movement. At the moment our ball movement is poor and our folly of getting sucked into the contest is killing us. It's not outside speed that's killing us, it's spread. The Opposition don't have everyone at the ball, they have a good balance with a nice spread on the outside.

It's only part of the problem. It's the plan, it's implementing the plan, it's where the forwards lead to, it's creating space, it's the quality of the forwards. Not just delivery...that's the tip of the iceberg.

They should make it easier for us to score...less congestion, one on one starting positions. ...but we are not using it to our advantage. The new rules, if we use them to our advantage should make it a lot harder for teams to defend. We are playing dumb football.

Here's an interesting alternative. Forget locking it inside 50, forget bombing it in to create a stoppage... How about a forward leads and we kick it to him. He then kicks a goal. Simple strategy but we struggle with it.

The trouble is we don't have runners to get the ball out too. Our current game is numbers at the contest, we are drawn in like bees to honey. We've been killed on the spread from the Prelim on... When you've got a player of Olivers (and Trac when he's there) ability to get and give surely you play a lot smarter than we have.

Sorry 'stinga', he may be a good player down the track but has shown nothing to date that indicates he will be. As much as I want him to be, wishing won't make it so.

That's the story 'Queanbeyan'... We have a few 'B' graders but they drop away to 'C' and 'D' graders very quickly Probably Harmes, Salem, Viney & Melk are the B's. Tommy Mac a 'B' if being kind but playing like a 'D' grader at the moment. Stars are Oliver, Max and probably Brayshaw on the cusp. We don't have one 'A' grade forward and our 2 'A' grade defenders are injured. Trac looks like being an ok player, maybe a 'B' but has this year to turn it on if he's going to be the star he promised to be otherwise it's not going to happen.

I suspect this is part of our problem... https://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/29/the-reasons-behind-hawthorns-ruined-season/ ...and maybe a bit of this... https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-geelong-turned-the-corner-20160520-gp05om.html ...and then again maybe it's just my MFCSS....or whatever you call it. I do think the list needs work though and definitely don't see it anywhere near complete as others have said it was. We've worked to bolster the defence but have neglected the forward half and let a pretty decent player go without replacement.

Sign a 2 year deal at whatever average money is and get on with your development Sam...

At the moment I would say we only have one forward, Melk... ...and as you say Trac is probably more suitable playing mid but he's our next best forward. At least he's providing some forward pressure.

That's 5 in a row now. We've certainly dropped off but can we turn it around? At least Oliver is back on track... Just a thought on forward delivery & conversion. Is it the deliverer, the deliveree or both at fault.

That might be the theory but Stanley beat Grundy last game, he's more than a capable ruck. Then were do we leave Frost when he's not relieving Max, he can't just stay on the bench & unless he has one out of the box I couldn't see him being much use forward.

That's one thing I wouldn't credit Zac with...he's not a smart footballer.

Hey 'Chazz' if we really wanted to stop unnecessarily arguments we might as well close the site down.

I'm not sure why either are playing. Frost has been tried in the ruck before and failed so I hope we're not going down this road again.

It's not the obvious brain fades 'A F', but the times he loses contact with his opponent in transition. He finds himself in no mans land way too often. He had a few good games last year, last week was poor, let's hope he can turn it on this week.

Frost very, very lucky...

Agree 'dazzle', we've been flat as a tack... ...now that we know the new AFL rules I expect there will be plenty of gut punches & fines handed out this week.

I don't see it as arrogance but sometimes young players can get a bit too comfortable and forget to do the things that got them the praise. A bit of adulation can subconsciously or in some cases consciously go to their heads. Not a great sample size and he is coming off injury. ...but it's a real trap for young players. I'm definitely not saying he's an arrogant [censored] or anything of the sort.

I'm not sure about him becoming arrogant, that's your interpretation but he could sit back a bit and stop doing the things that make him the player he his. This is all part of armchair analysis and all of us hypothesise to a degree even those at the club on the front line.

I think any young player is in danger of drinking their own bathwater when they get pumped up by the fans and media. As I've said many players suffer a down year early in their careers often called the 2nd year blues (but not always in their 2nd year). I think he's a good kid and has been probably my favourite player since watching his first game with the club but he is only human... At the moment he's not doing the things that make him a good player and that could be for a number of reasons.

Better get your facts right then 'Smokey'... Big difference between what I said and what you quoted.

I hope you don't mean me 'Smokey'? He like many young kids is in danger of it...that's why many get the 2nd year blues. I trust with McCartney around this won't happen.

We received a reality check in last years prelim... How many reality checks do we need? I thought we would win too but looking at it dispassionately the writing was on the wall...we went in with no form. We were kidding ourselves and so were the tipsters. Then add Max's story to the mix then yeah the loss was there to be had.