Undeeterred

Wrong. On point - on what basis should they not be looked at differently? If you're saying, for example, that the hole in our defence is bigger and therefore we don't have the luxury of letting Oscar McDonald play twos, that's different. But to say different players should develop in different teams for no reason is incorrect.

Nobody is arguing against any of that. But perhaps it's worth reading before weighing in so you know what you're arguing against. The guts of it, as I read Saty's collective posts, is that Weidemann should learn his craft in the twos, and that Oscar McDonald should learn it in the ones, despite neither being ready in their respective positions. It doesn't matter how many seasons they've played, or the stage of their development. Anyway, I'm done with this one.

You can't keep hiding behind the 'FD not me' line as a basis for argument. This is the same FD that has admitted it was wrong multiple times this season.

Fine, but that's not what you said. I could equally ask whether you are aware of what you need to be a defender. I'd say O-Mac has as many defensive deficiencies to work on as Weed has forward. That's fine, but my point is it is illogical to say that one should learn them in the seniors and one shouldn't. Let's agree to disagree,

No, I read your post. And this one that says the same thing. Weed doesn't have the tools yet to be an AFL forward, so should learn in the VFL. O-Mac doesn't have the tools yet to be an AFL defender, so should learn in the AFL. Illogical. I'm not sure you would have been so hot in the debating society either, just quietly.

He's been in the bests in the VFL about five times recently. You should get the facts straight before potting players.

Yes.

Tripe. To follow your argument through, you don't get experience playing as a forward against AFL standard defenders, either, so Weidemann should play AFL to learn, not VFL. I disagree with the premise, anyway. No matter how out of of form Travis Cloke is, he's definitely an AFL standard forward players like O-Mac could be learning against. I'm sure there are others.

This exasperated, world-weary, holier-than-thou tone is very wearing on the rest of us.

A cheap shot. What I am seeing is another round of culling blokes with 100-200 games experience because they are 'not good enough for the future' and bringing in a raft of kids. My personal view too is that these kids are the best batch we've had, but that's not the point. We are sacrificing wins here and now, this season, in a season where we are trying to keep Hogan and Tom McDonald and entice across players like Prestia and Hurley. If we put 10-11 wins on the board, we might have a chance of getting them. But no A-grader in their right mind is going to fall for this continual development rubbish and be sold on the story that maybe, in a few years, we will have a finals team for them to play in. When will we learn???

Now where have I heard that before?

Forgot about the Suns. But yeah, I can't see more than 7-9 wins from here and am sick of 'improvement' being counted as a couple more wins than last year. At that rate, it will take us four of five years to get anywhere near the top 4, all going well. By which point the game will have circled around to a completely different style again, and we'll be left behind as we have been in the past.

Yeah, burned by Bern. You mean the NBA playing Australian Olympian basketballer? Joe Ingles is a hell of a lot more famous outside the AFL-centric fishbowl that is Melbourne than our mate Bernie.

Gunston could hardly walk in the second half.

He's no slower than Dom Tyson, and has just as good hands both in close and marking above his head. He'll be an inside mid, and will get heaps of it.

Bet you've been dying to write that last sentence for two years. Glad you finally got the chance to after all that waiting, it must feel fantastic.

I actually think the rotations cap will work for him. He was great in the last quarter, when everybody else was knackered. It's great to have him back.

We kicked 10.0 off the boot in the first three quarters. The two behinds were both rushed. In absolutely belting rain.

Yep, and still lost.

Um, he's played 5 games or something. Honestly, this is absurd.

But we might the team to give Essendon their only one.

Brilliant.

Really sucked some life out of us.

This is the most wrong you've ever got it old fella. Joeboy - misread game completely.

Not up there. No way.