deejammin'

I’m not too disappointed as it’s a practise game and the many, many players we had out make it difficult to judge. However, it is worrying that our pressure and effort were so lax, that our structure collapsed so regularly, that our tackles were broken so easily, that almost all our goals were from chaos ball situations, that our ability to move the ball is still so stagnant, that our skills are still so terrible and that so many players getting a chance to play for a spot were so very ordinary. Bring that type of performance to the first 6 weeks and Goodwin will be gone. I hope for his sake and ours that this was a personnel issue, because if we have really improved so little on all the issues that ruined last season, I shudder to think... Also while the dogs were closer to full strength than us they were missing: Treloar, Easton Wood, JJ (I know he was omitted but jeez, I’d like him in our team!!), Not to mention losing Noughton, Crozier and Vandemeer for much of the game! They may well be one of the best teams and we may well have been undermanned, but watching that game felt far more 2019 than anything we dished up last year. I desperately hope we bounce back against Freo.

I remember that too but watching him this year I thought his field kicking was excellent, his kicking for goal less so.

Stoked about Brown! I think you’re right and this is one idea that hasn’t been mentioned enough, the possibility of rotating Jackson and Fritsch between 3rd forward and wing. At the start of this year there was talk that Jackson was mobile enough to play a Ruck Rover type role perhaps he could play a Blicsavs circa 2017 role as a tall running wingman? If you then rotate him with Fritsch when he rests forward or goes into the ruck you could cause some matchup issues with his height and both are great field kicks. Exciting I reckon.

It’s really exciting to have us landing a key forward but I’m naturally mistrustful anytime Barrett reports on North. He is so one-eyed when it comes to them that he would always be reporting whatever works for North. I hope we play hardball with them, get Brown to nominate us, get him for pick 23 or he walks to the draft, North have basically thrown him out the door they’re lucky to get any pick for him.

I forgot about KK, I’d say he’s definitely going. I think Jones staying on as a playing coach one more year is a good idea and I think Jetta is contracted so unless he chooses to retire he goes around again and I’d back him in if he gets back to his best form, his game against St Kilda was pretty good. The thing about kicking people off the list is having quality to replace them with, Jones and Jetta stay for mine as even if we get three second rounders for OMac, Preuss and ANB (not going to happen) we would already be using four second rounders (and if we had this we’d definitely exchange two/three second rounders for a first round pick leaving more list spots), pick 43 and 62. Then as you say Chandler, Nietzsche and to a lesser extent in my opinion Hore and Bedford can also be delisted if we need more space. Jetta and Jones are more valuable to us than picks 63 and 83 this year and then when they retire in 2021 we’ll have higher picks to bring in as we’ll be back in the first round. I think we’ll be looking to consolidate our picks into 4 second/third round picks using Preuss, ANB and OMac as trades and then if we’re lucky we’ll land a Saad, Smith, Cameron and still be comfortably within our list size without having to turn out too many players. I think Jones, Jetta, Hore and Bedford all have more upside than speculative picks at this stage and we need leadership and professionalism for our still relatively young list. It’s also dangerous to turn too many players over in one year with list sizes reducing again next year.

Clearly the FD rate Tomlinson and Smith ahead of OMac for our second/third KPD. With May, Lever, Tomlinson, Smith and both Petty and TMac who can potentially be sent back I totally understand why we would be looking to trade OMac. All things going well it looks like 42 will be the number for a list this year so our list looks like this: Delist: Dunkley, Wagner, Wagner Retire Bennell Trade: OMac, ANB, Preuss If all seven go through (and I know TMac may well be traded along with some others depending on the offers but these three look likely) then we have 5 list positions to fill and the following picks: 23,47,62,63,83 I would think we would be aiming on pick upgrades with most of these trades and perhaps even packaging them up to a team with an academy prospect for an even higher pick. If OMac upgrades one of our picks in the 60s to 40s-50s we’ll be doing well. I imagine we would be hoping to get a couple of second rounders and a third rounder at least with the three players we have on the table, which would be a significant upgrade on our current draft prospects, who knows maybe we can even get to the point where we package up a couple of second rounders for a late first?

So Goodwin still has a better finals record than Chris Scott over the last three years. Geelong need to get over WC or Collingwood to draw even....? 2018-2020 Finals record: C Scott 1-4 S Goodwin 2-1 lol #straightsetscats

I hear what you’re saying but three years versus four years on a contract doesn’t mean as much these days. If we get to the third year and Jack’s not working out at Melbourne, then a trade will probably happen, hell players have asked for trades one year into a contract, if he’s ruined his body through injury he will retire like a number of other players, if a four year contract gets him over the line I think it’s worth it. I think Jack is a high quality player and individual that sets super high standards in behaviour, training and attack on the ball and that he will make our club and team better. I think he will play well for us, heart and soul for all four years and possibly beyond, but I really don’t think four years versus three will make much difference if things go wrong. Nathan Jones sounds like it’s as much about him coaching from the list as it is about playing, this idea is become common and will get more common with the reduction in the soft FD cap. Burgoyne at Hawthorn, Hodge at Brisbane, Mitchell at West Coast, Heath Shaw to GWS?? it’s a common thing clubs do to get quality people and leadership in-house. Nathan is a club legend, a good person and a good leader who is intelligent enough football wise and emotionally to be a good coach. We’ve all seen the hard way what happens when you let your senior players go elsewhere on mass, Bruce, Yze, J McDonald, Green all left our club at a similar time to be assets to other coaching panels, including premierships, as our list bottomed out and floundered for leadership. We still have a relatively young list with relatively few experienced leaders. Keeping Nathan is a no brainer and if the best way to do it is one year on the list then great.

Gawn didn’t play in the dogs game. Preuss did. And there are two ways to look at that game, one is that ruck men aren’t important and that Dunkley broke even, the other is that we failed to capitalise on this opportunity in the ruck. Preuss and the mids lacked connection in that game, he was constantly hitting it to where our mids were not and eventually Preuss resorted to just taking it out of the ruck and booting it forward, which hurt us as well as we allowed the dogs so much rebound off half-back and freedom in transition. The fact is we should’ve played better in every facet of the game against the dogs and Preuss’s previous game against North was excellent! Good ruckmen are key to Port, Brisbane, Geelong, West Coast and Collingwood and while Richmonds rucks aren’t setting the world on fire they still play them. That’s the top 6 teams all having key ruckman, many would argue Nick Nat is one of the most influential players in the AFL due to his ruck craft! We are a better team when a dominant ruckman is connecting with our mids and unless we bring in some good talls to replace TMac and Preuss we can’t afford to take the risk of trading them both. If we have Gawn, Jackson and Weideman as our only ruck/tall forward options next year we’re taking a huge risk, one injury and the good teams are going to exploit our lack of height, both in the ruck and forward, especially if we keep bombing the ball forward under pressure. If we trade TMac and Preuss we need to be bringing in at least one key forward/back up ruck, and if we can’t, we should keep Preuss for insurance. Unless of course we get a ridiculous offer (like a Brent Daniels) for him and even then we should still be bringing in a backup ruck somehow.

I mean, if we could do that it’d be pretty amazing. Obviously I don’t think we’d be able to trade Preuss for him, but from a whole list perspective if we could trade TMac, Preuss and bring in Cameron and draft a young tall we’d be going well. I’d say it’s more likely we bring in a different less high profile tall forward as everyone is saying Cameron is involved with Geelong. My main point was just if it looks like we will end the trade period not being able to bring in at least one tall for T Mac then I don’t think we should trade Preuss. Unless someone offered something ridiculous of course. We really need talls on our list and while Jackson is great it’s too much to ask a second year player to be both the number 2 key position forward AND back up ruck.

I think part of this is probably that Preuss wants game time and so the club is checking what they could get for him as a matter of due diligence. The reality is if we trade both Preuss and TMac we are leaving ourselves exposed for talls. Sure neither has set the world on fire in the role we really need to fill, that of tall key position forward, but we were relatively lucky for injuries this season, I’d be very worried if the only tall forwards on our list were Weideman, Jackson and Brown. That leaves us very thin on the ground should one of them get injured or if Gawn goes down. From a list perspective we need a tall forward anyway, trade both Preuss and TMac and you really need to be bringing in at least 2 talls, at least one of whom can play ruck. If we trade both Preuss and TMac and don’t get talls in one long term injury to Gawn, Weideman or Jackson and it’s curtains for 2021. We can’t leave ourselves that exposed. This deal only gets done if we can find a way to get a Cameron type forward.

I’m enjoying how we’re going and hope Goodwin does brilliantly, but he should’ve played Frost, who has been very good for us since he came back in, against St Kilda. I believe we would be in top 4 this year if he had. Anyway woulda, coulda, shoulda. I’m excited about our list, the finals and our potential for growth. Just thought this was one we got wrong.

The decision to play Petty (over Frost) against St Kilda is still one of the most mystifying of the year and nearly cost us finals, atm it’s costing us top 4. I hope the “learning” Goodwin has taken from this year is to play our best 22 as often as possible. anyway, FINALS!!! ??????

Unfortunately that’s not true, here’s the possibilities: WE WIN (over GWS): • Collingwood lose we finish 4th, play Richmond in round one of the finals. • Collingwood win we play a home final against Geelong. •Or Collingwood lose, Sydney and Hawthorn draw we finish 5th and play Geelong in a home final. WE LOSE: • Geelong beat GC by less than a 50+ points differential (eg we lose by 20 Geelong win by 30) we finish 7th and play: Sydney in Sydney if Hawthorn win Hawthorn in Melbourne if Sydney win Sydney in Sydney if Hawthorn and Sydney draw. • Geelong beat Gold Coast by more than 50 point differential we play GWS in Sydney. WE DRAW: We play one of GWS or Sydney in Sydney or Hawthorn in Melbourne. So the most likely outcome if we win is home against Geelong. If we lose we have a 3/4 chance of playing in Sydney. If you are being positive and saying we will definitely win over GWS then I’m sorry and yes Sydney would be very unlikely. Also no changes for me this week. I’m hoping for a Freo miracle and us smashing GWS to fly into top 4.

That’s the selection we should’ve had last week. Not sure I trust Stretch after the Richmond game where he was a deer in the headlights. But his VFL form warrants it and he plays more of a role we are lacking than Tyson.

That result really hurts us. We will need to find our mojo very quickly. With the Hawks and North to make a huge charge (they have so many games against lowly teams) we will not only need to win our winnable games and win well (Freo, Bulldogs, Gold Coast) we will need to find a few more against some quality teams and teams finding form. Lose this week and that’s all she wrote.

Pathetic, the result would be a shock but we do this so often it’s just so predictable. I would’ve taken flat track bullying our way to finals, but we can’t even do that! St Kilda are complete shite, they have beaten Brisbane and Gold Coast (who they were down by 5 goals against!). They didn’t even play that well today we just kept giving them easy looks, turnovers and inept defence. I can’t believe Goodwin. Viney, tagging against a team with one good mid when we’re winning the hit outs! Wtf!! TMac on a wing when our backs are getting monstered. Hogan on a HFF for the first three quarters against a team he usually monsters. Selection: Petty, not ready. Left one out at full back regularly.no crumbers, no speed, no big quick backmen. Game day: keeps an extremely high press for three quarters when the saints continually get out the back of us. No anchor backman within cooee of their forwardline when we have the ball. OUR FORWARDLINE: How do you have last week happen and still not change the strategy. Why does he think bombing to talk forwards in packs with no crumbers will work?! The umpiring was shocking, a few of our players had just awful games, a few shouldn’t be playing at AFL level. But ultimately, this game was lost at selection and by the coaching panel. That we got within two points inspite of complete ineptitude just drives this point home. Our group desperately needs to make finals and learn to play in big games. It’s hard to see us doing it now. Goodwin does some things well but when things arent working he is far too stubborn and his match day credentials are very weak. Worrying.

Contrary to the media noise I think the next three games are the biggest for the club and will define our season. Its dissappointing that we didn’t beat quality teams and put ourselves in the box seat in the last fortnight, but it’s also not unexpected for a young talented team with limited big game experience. the real test is to make finals. Win the next three and we’re well on our way. Lose any of the next three and it may be 2017 all over again. we need to flat track bully our way to contention, we’ll only truly see how far our group can go in finals, all the rest is just noise. Plenty o premiership teams have had bad losses during the season, none have come from outside the 8, that’s all that matters. out: Tyson, Hannan, Smith (McDonald if injured) in: frost, Garlett, Weideman

I think it has become one of the great myths that Geelong just magically flicked a switch and created a dynasty in 2007. In 2004 and 2005 that group played finals and won two finals across the two years. The group had a shocker in 2006 and 2007 was a rebound from that but a lot of that group had finals experience and the club had been through a sustained period of making, playing in and winning finals. For all the hype about the talent on our list and how good we look when we play our best our club hadn’t made finals in 12 years, only one player on our list has played in finals in the past 5 years and none of our young group has had regular experience in pressure cooker games. Things like Queens birthday will happen, our main concern should be winning enough to make finals so our young group can build their experience. From there who knows we could pull off a Bulldogs or a Richmond? But Geelong in 2007 was built on the back of years of grind not a magical switch flick. From here, lose to Port and we’re back with the pack, beat Port and we’re four wins from finals with games against St Kilda, Freo, Gold Coast and the Bulldogs in the second half of our year. It’s not all doom and gloom, we could’ve set our season up against the pies and it was bitterly dissappointing but unless we lose to St Kilda in 3 weeks time we’re on track to improve on last year and make finals.

I don’t have the hit out to advantage stat. But I would be stunned if it wasn’t up over the last 4 weeks over earlier in the season. Max has been awesome all season but it really looks like they’ve got a real system going with him and our mids now.

A lot of good points in here, great thread. I would add better connection between Maxy and the mids. Early in the year he was getting plenty of taps but they were either going to no one or the opposition as much as to our advantage. Now we have such great connection we convert to much cleaner clearances and dominate our opponents around the Ball.

Exactly, losing tight tussles against fellow top 4 contenders won’t hurt badly if we win against those outside the 8 and below us. We don’t need to beat our fellow contenders until it matters. Richmond and the Bulldogs weren’t perfect against the ladder leaders in their premiership, didn’t matter in the end. I just want us to get to the finals before we talk about winning premierships.

I understand that we may not have seen how our team will truly play against the best yet, but ultimately I don’t think this will matter until finals. As it stands we’ve beaten 2 teams in the 8 and lost to 1, that’s pretty good. I think making finals this season will come down to who can be the most consistent against lesser sides. It’s an incredibly even year and Brisbane, Gold Coast, St Kilda, Bulldogs, Essendon, GWS will all upset teams at some stage. We’ve done well to beat most of the potential bottom six teams to this point and to beat them well. Smash the bullies this week and we will be perfectly placed. I know I’ve said this before but we missed finals last year through losing to teams we should beat (North x 2, Freo, Collingwood, Hawthorn) we performed ok against teams inside the 8 beating Adelaide (x1), Port, Essendon and West Coast. We were also super competitive against Richmond and Geelong. This week is our true big test. Smash the bullies and put ourselves ahead of the pack. It’s great watching us play at the moment and I’m loving it, almost enough to trust us (years of MFCSS are still nagging). Get the win and then we can prove our finals credentials against the flith and power.

Our game is very difficult to adjudicate with many interpretations and shades of grey. Which makes it all the more unintelligible when they take a simple situation like this and make it more complicated. Intentionally touch an umpire, get a week. Simple. This just allows players to touch umpires and argue their way out of it. Stupid and bad for lower levels.

Yes, but the difference between us making the 8 and missing last year was losing to sides outside the 8 when we should win (North x2, Freo, Hawthorn, Collingwood). The first step for our club is simply to make the finals. Anything could happen from there. If we smash Carlton this week and continue beating teams outside the 8 we will have improved. FWIW if we beat all the teams in the bottom 4 it will be the first time in the Roos/Goodwin rebuild we have done so...