nutbean

I dont find it particularly amusing but even the most staunchest posters screaming about Political correctness gone mad would have to concede that some people are going to be offended. I think Roos summed it well when he said The education is 'think about your actions before you actually do them, not after you do them, think about what other people are going to think about what you do'."

The stupidity is the lack of foresight. Once they put on those costumes and stupidly posted pictures on instagram - it was never going to have a happy ending. The lack of smarts displayed by footballers never ceases to amaze me.

He is not a long kick of the ball. But I watched him closely and he kicks a lot of mongrel, floating helicopters that seem to find their mark. Go figure.

It was soul destroying for me to. That's because I expected to win that contest. The difference is that last year I didn't go into any games with an expectation of winning.

Go back and relive last season - we are worse than last year ? I fear you have a very short memory.

The exact reason why I divided the measurements against the competition and against ourselves. We are undoubtedly better off then where we were 12 months ago -that is why I gave us a C measuring against where we were - we did fall away in our endeavors later in the season or it could have been higher. But yes - we do have to measure ourselves against the competition or we might as well not play for points or a premiership.

Sitting back and looking at where we are in relation to all other teams - F Judging the club on expectation for this year, the past and current list, the past and current coaching and admin. Measuring the club against itself and where it has come from - C. Improvement in lots of areas both on and off the field. The reality is though - we have to measure others against others - it is a competition.

Slow news day. Dumb footballers - nothing unusual to see here - move on.

This thread is a tad old as is the poll - If you did a poll now, I don't think that even Saty would believe he is staying.

Agreed - the talk is he has met with the leadership group.

I talked to a player manager ( albeit a small time with only a couple of wannabe's on the books) and he amused me with the stories. He said that players are bashed by managers from day one - say nothing and do nothing - push everything back to the manager. He said that is basically the way it happens. He suggested that managers do take direction from player ( I really want to stay, I really want to go) but he said without exception all managers will test the waters on opposition clubs interest and a players worth even if the player is adamant he wants to stay at the club just so the manager has a "second quote" on the players worth. He said the only true thing players say in the front of the camera is " I just leave this stuff to my manager". In Frawleys case I am sure his management ( knowing what a Rhodes scholar he is ) would have severely cautioned him about talking to any clubs.

I'm offended by the stupidity of these players. It is black humour and some will laugh and some with get offended. My girlfriend and her ex husband ( pre-me) went to a party dressed as Azaria Chamberlain and a dingo. - they weren't in the public eye and some at the party laughed and some were offended What irks me with the players is that they should realise they are pushing a boundary and not taking freakin pictures ( or better still - think twice before deciding what to wear - Chris Dawes - very clever and very funny) Every year, every mad Monday I wait for it - what moron will do something and put his picture on instagram and the papers dine out. I_diot footballers should have long ago realised that football is a fishbowl and they will be heavily scrutinised. We can bleat as much as we like about political correctness but these dimwits want to take the big money that comes with gig - realise on everything they do that it will be end up in the public forum and for every person who finds it funny there will be someone else who will think it offensive.

Just need to clarify one point "players" don't talk to opposition clubs. Their managers do. That way there is always deniability. A player can mumble he is loyal and loving the club and a good manager will be out talking to clubs so he can advice his client appropriately. The only time a player may get involved is at the very end when he may meet the coaches and/or the leadership group. So when people are suggesting that "Frawley" talked to other clubs months ago - it is just a fallacy - to suggest that his manager was out talking to clubs for months is probably right on the money. The reason that the Ross Lyon to Freo caused such a ruckus was he went outside his management and got his lawyer to broker the deal. Doesn't make Frawley's claim of being loyal any better though. I fully understand players wanting to play for successful clubs and I fully love players that resist the temptation to bail when the going is tough and try and get their current clubs successful.

Jack, I don't suggest that it is just the coaches but do you ask yourself why NOT one of draft selections has gone on to be anything more than a B grader. Are you comfortable therefore that EVERY one of our selections has been wrong ? Or would place some weight on how our club has been bereft of professional coaching and development, poor facilities, poor administration and most importantly poor middle to aged players to set standards on and off the field, to show leadership and protect and nuture our young talent. Look at how Gunston at Hawthorn had two years as the third tall behind Roughy and Buddy - yet we are praying for miracles from Jesse Hogan year one.

I think there has been great improvement. This is not a cause for celebration though - it is acknowledgement of how truly horrible we were last year and how very far back we are coming from. I long for the day when I can measure success or failure by wins or losses. The tragedy is my club is not at this point yet.

No love for Daniel Cross ?

Do I think he is gone ? Absolutely. Do I think he is leader ? No. After his second half of the year I have swung from being ambivalent to happy to pick up a band one pick. However the disrespectful name calling of a bloke who has served our club for 8 seasons (good and bad years and good and bad service from Frawley ) is a disgrace. He is will opt to take his free agency out clause and so be it. Thank you for some good footy and I think you could have shown more ticker this year (and the last couple). Next year, he is a just another player. ( for those knocking Rivers - I like a player who will stick with us through good and bad but his decision to leave to play finals - was it the wrong decision for him?)

My middle name is Nancy- I resent that remark

Its only tanking if you actually lose.

All good ( and a bit of tongue in cheek) - Just the misreporting on here that has grown legs. the original story that if Frawley goes he wont be at the B&F ( which is standard fare for players who trade out before the B&F) to Frawley is refusing to go. I have heard the story in two places and its a bit like "we arent say he is going we are just saying that we dont expect to see him at the B&F". Just thought this was demonland at its best.

Redleg - I expect better - if you can suffer through the footy show have a look at exactly what Barrett actually said.

Dermie spoke about the great Hawk teams and he said the biggest single factor in the continual development of their youth was the unbelievably good mature aged players and leaders at the club. When Brereton debut ( in the finals of 1982 - couldnt make the team the whole year) - he was the third tall in the forward line. The early parts of his career were shielded. We expect Hogan to come in and be a gun from day one. Look at Gunston at the Hawks - had two years of the pressure being on Franklin and Roughy.

The jury is out on everything. What Steve said is correct except I have guarded optimism - we have changed plenty but I wish ( hope) it is that simple to turn around. I can see that Roos has improved the team but by his own admission we are still a long way off. Lots of the other building blocks are in place but I think have a real solid core of mature footballers to ease the way recruits is so important and we have better than last year but still dont have enough good matures to take the pressure off the kids. I am not as confident as some that we have the right environment for kids to prosper YET. Call it a work in progress. I have confidence that we are on the path. Incompetence doesn't get corrected and overhauled from one year to the next so I will hold fire about all the guns that may come into this club until one actually proves himself to be one.

Thanks for pointing out me being ignorant and infuriating but obviously you don't read my posts on recruits because I actually agree with you 100%. Well 90%. All you say is true but I have been so badly burned by our past incompetence that I will declare a future draft pick a gun when one actually turns out to be one.

morton, scully, trengove, watts petracca will be a gun - I'm certain of it.