nutbean

It was the Latham Diaries - he did take giant potshots at all - but he took giant potshots at himself as well. He really wasnt cut out for politics - at to his performances since - Im not sure what he is cut of for. As an aside - love or hate Paul Keating - he is a seriously funny man. His latest stuff on Bob Hawke - had me laughing.

I think the point that most are missing is the likes of Bail this year has improved and he would be in our top 10 performers this year. That shows the strength ( weakness) of our list. To me Bail is a keeper but for us to be successful you want either dramatic improvement from him ( IMO not likely) or you want him to be the 20th best player on our list. My issue with Bail is not that he is not handy footballer - my issue is that the club should have a whole lot better than him and we don't

I think you are looking at Toddy way too fondly - he was pretty ordinary most of his career but improved in the latter stages ( elite is a wee bit of a stretch - I actually had that conversation with him - he worked hard at it - do I sound like Saty now ?)

It's not that - first season in - 12 games down I think conventional wisdom should probably lead you to one of two opinions 1/ The boys is going to be a jet - got all the skills and once he develops an engine and we get him into the midfield - he will be great. or 2/ He is 12 games in - way too early to judge. Ill keep my powder dry until he is a couple seasons in as I have been badly burned too many times before by "False dawns" ( that's you and me OD) You choose option 3 - having a shot at a first year 12 gamer. poor form.

Not mature enough is understatement - the thing I did admire in his book is he could see his own failings.

I would qualify that. Give me a ball and tell me to kick without anyone coming at me to a player 20 metres away and 20 metres clear and i can kick. Have someone rushing me or have to pinpoint a pass - Im Simon Godfrey. Our stats on disposal, especially our defenders, are made to look better because we chip to a loose so often in the back 50.

if you want to read another interesting book - read Mark Lathams initial book when he "retired" from politics. 60 % genuinely good ideas - 40% vitriol and "mad as a cut snake"

Raising money by Governments is usually black and white - we have a fair amount of transparency and can ascertain whether we like ( approve ? concede ?) a tax or not - When it comes to Government spending - all of them doing it appallingly badly and we have little window into how they go about it doing it - until it is all too late. As to good intentions - thats all it will ever be as all governments are wasteful

Firstly - I didn't suggest for a moment that voting with your hip pocket was the exclusive domain of the left or right. I dislike it on all sides of politics and you seem to me to be in violent agreement when quoting Hawke, Howard and Keating. I also dont like politics of fear and both sides can be equally guilty of this. The triple J listeners aren't his demographic. He was talking to a hostile audience and a politicians true demographic is people who vote for them. And listen to the Hack on triple J enough and you figure out most listeners leanings in a hurry. He came on the program and was snarly and uppity and would have won zero people over. ( when facing your audience - how they vote is the only essential demographic)

That is where watching games and marrying that up with stats comes in handy. We chip the ball around the back half constantly and do it quite well except we are not quick enough at it and we don't create a release on the open side. Our kicking into the forward 50 is poor and we turnover the ball too much. there is a difference between able to chip the 20 metres backwards or to a man in space and having footballers who can really hurt you by foot. We dont have enough footballers that can really hurt you by foot - Stats dont tell me that - my eyes do.

you must concede that the biggest obstacle to us improving as a team is our disposal. What sets Hawthorn apart from other team ( and Geelong/Sydney etc) is their disposal

yup - agreed - development.

Not implied - stated. I vehemently disagreed with Ben Hur on this forum but he debated things like the carbon tax regarding its effectiveness both nationally and internationally - he would debate issues around the benefit for the country as a whole. I believe that Australia pricing carbon alone will have little to no material impact other than a gradual change in behaviors which is a good thing. It needs to be a world wide movement to reduce our carbon emissions and we are but a bit player. Does it surprise you that some are willing to pay a price for certain things they believe in that they will not see a personal material benefit ?

I misspoke with "average punter" - let me be more specific - people who vote based on short term material gain without looking at national interest in the mid/longer term. I don't care if you want to call it virtuous or not - I call it like I see it - it is not an implication that i look beyond self interest - it is a fact - but there you go. Whilst it may be little cliche - with my income , if I was interested in my hip pocket I would be spruiking the Libs from the highest mountain as I would be far better off financially. My biggest hate is pork barreling before elections - again - all it is is a crass attempt to buy votes. Again - self interest be damned. I presume you are not a triple J listener ? A rather disingenuous comment about it being his demographic - certainly his age demographic but voting wise I suspect that he would fairly friendless on that channel. To my point on Pyne. Maybe if he wasnt such a prat and realise that he was 1/ playing directly to his age demographic 2/ playing directly against his voting demographic - he may not have been such a prickly tool.

Quoted from pitmaster at the pie night last night In summary Roos does not value draft picks the way some of us do: 'at Sydney we traded many draft picks because it's a lottery, the draft". And posters want us to get better at it. How do you get better at a lottery ?

As an early member of demonology -I recall TGR and Morton ( I also recall TGR on Wallace and Simmonds - you get some right - you get some wrong). I would suggest closer to year 3. Mortons first year was impressive - second year blues. Rumblings at the end of year 3. Still waiting for some people saw it early....

We are in violent agreement on this. Posters look for black and white in recruiting when all there is is various shades of grey. Other factors are looked at by recruiters but will either depreciate or inflate their under 18 form . You suggest we should get better at it . Couldn't agree more except you haven't outlined how to get better at it. I keep harking back to Scully. Besides a knock on his kicking he ticked every single box. Outstanding junior career, leadership skills, determination to succeed at all costs. How can you test how a footballer will react when offered a $1m per year ??? I actually think it was all about money for him but there is plenty of word around ( on this site for one) that he left because of the professionalism of the club ( China end of year trip especially). I have mentioned elsewhere that culture, stability and leadership within a club plays an enormous role in the development of the junior players - this has been sadly missing and i am hoping this a the one great legacy that Roos this club - the building of those three pillars.

"Surely the main question when recruiting is who will be the better player for the club over 10 years, not who has had the better junior career or tested the best at the Draft Combine. I would have thought the secret to being a good recruiter is predicting what the player could become not simply taking who the best is at age 18." Your words - I'll stop making things up when you come up with a way to figure out how you can ascertain who will be the best player over ten years without leaning very heavily on their junior form ????? Look at your second line - by your own words - take who will be best not who is currently the best. I am all ears - exactly how do you do that ?????? There is a reason that recruiters lean almost exclusively on form shown through junior careers - it might because that is the only indicator they have ? There is a reason that year in year out the top 10 order is pre-ordained and comes out as anticipated. It is because of their body of work in the junior competitions.

I agree with all you say - but I still believe next year at least will be a difficult year and my hope is we make giant strides in year 3 of Roos. He is 26 - his prime. I agree regarding his integrity but I would be asking myself do i want to resume to what will be a struggle for two more years ? On a side note - we are coming into the time of year when we will probably miss out on some bigger fish moving clubs and posters will decry that our "people" can't get the job done. Maybe I don't wear rose colored glasses enough but along with StKilda - at this point of time we are the most unattractive destination in the AFL. We will only get players because we will overpay. Frawley wants to see the direction of the club ? We have improved but we are only marginally closer to being a competitive force. We may take good leaps forward next year - and we may not.

I think that people believe there is perception that we go in with tradeables and not tradeables I am sure there is two lists - one being a list of names we will throw out there to see if there are any bites. Tapscott and steak knives. Then other clubs comes to us and say how about such and such....that's the "I'm listening - what are you offering in exchange" list - and I reckon basically everyone is on that list.

What a nonsense OD - we are putrid everywhere.

amongst other things.... don't be under 30 and unemployed.

Of the three - he was my question mark.

is anyone going to name names ? lol

We shouldn't get a priority pick - we should get a 10 goal start at Etihad - I was there the last time we won - the bulldogs.