Pates

I know it didn't work out well but we attracted Mitch Clark, Dawes chose us, and probably the best trade we've done for as long as I can remember Bernie Vince chose us. We are slowly becoming more desireable; Roos is a drawcard, we are on the way up (again slowly), and who wouldn't want to be someone kicking it down the throat of Jesse Hogan for the next 10 years?

He's been knocking down the door all year and in truth has been ahead of Spencer in most games for Casey. I doubt you'll find a player that's been in the emergencies for the seniors more than the Russian. He had a poor game for Casey, that is the truth and more than justifies not promoting him to the seniors for the last game of the year. But on season form and for the service he has provided to the club I believe you can justify a recall for a farewell game, if it truly is the end for him. As someone else said as well, ask him what he wants to do. He may well say that he feels more like a Casey player than a Melbourne player this year and given it's an elimination final for them he might want to see their finals series to the end. I can't remember who it was but they chose that option rather than a farewell game.

Not much I disagreed with in there, particularly Barrett's simple comment of "more wins". It's sort of like saying "we have to score more than the opposition" but it's true, we can't afford stupid losses like the St Kilda, Essendon, and Carlton. We just have to win games and get positive emotions around the club, especially the young guns who will be driving the club forward. Speed and skills as Gary said must be a priority in the trade/draft period, a jet like Stringer is exactly what we need (hopefully Tracca will be part of that). It's positive, but we're on a knife edge.

That's the thing, we've got to weigh up the possible value of trading him for what, a 3rd round pick? We then get a raw kid who we will have to put more years into to developing. I feel there's more risk in starting again than giving him a couple more years.

It certainly looks like Viney will be in the right stage of his career to take over from Jones when he retires/steps down. I would say Gus would make a brilliant VC, depending on how Hogan develops he could be a candidate as well but I never particularly liked the idea of a FF being captain. That said there have been successful captains who were/are forwards; Neitz for one, Brown, Reiwoldt, Pavlich, I'm sure I could name a few more if I really tried. But for me Viney might as well have captain tattooed somewhere on him, it just feels right!

Howe and a 3rd rounder overs?

They are available for trade until after the trade period, that's why the players pushed for free agency because even if you were out of contract the departing player needed to play ball with his current club to get to his club of choice. If we re-sign him now he is off the table until the next trade period. I could see an idea of trading him for a top quality player as a sweetener if it was necessary.

Would be keen to get him.

Much like it wasn't Houli's fault Richmond lost to Freo, it wasn't Toumpas's fault we lost to St Kilda. It was a collective team failure. From coach, trainer, to all players it was a team failure. The fact that Toump played probably his best game that day needs to be the prevailing memory. Picket Fence: There is no point harping on about that question. We can go back through just about every draft and say "why didn't we take....." and yes I know you'll say Todd Viney should've had the inside word but it is totally pointless to this discussion on whether we should be re-signing Jimmy. We got Jimmy, they got Wines. That's the way the dominos fell, next time you see Todd and Co why don't you go up to them in person and ask the question.

I didn't see the Freo game so can't say who should go out, but it sounds like Spencer got concussed so if that's the case I reckon he misses and Jamar comes in. Brayshaw and Harmes sound like they will be coming back as well and Dawes is available although I question whether it's worth playing him given how injury prone he is. I'm going early on this but I have a feeling we will win or at the very least it will be a tight entertaining contest. From memory I think the last time we won a last round of the year was against Carlton in the Kruezer Cup, hardly a win worth mentioning, I would really really love for us to tackle the off season with a win behind our backs and smiles on the faces of fans and players. We got the jump on GWS early last time, our last few weeks of first quarters have been nothing short of disgraceful. That must be the challenge to the players; we started the year well, let's finish the year well.

Could've been anything, but combination of bad luck, poor development, and perhaps other factors seemed to do him in. Sad to see another pick amount to nothing, good luck to him in his next career path.

Actually don't know what you're asking. Ollie Wines was ready to go in every respect; physically, mentally, and football ability. Toumpas wasn't, but we played him anyway because that was the policy at the time and clearly it was the opinion of the coaches he could develop himself through the times of being beaten and not playing all that well. It didn't work out that way and now we have someone with talent to burn but can't seem to break into the 22. I'm not sure what you're point about the "Ollie Wines case scenario is exactly the opposite". We chose Toumpas over Wines, that's fine, my point is that Jimmy's introduction to AFL was poorly handled and I believe has caused him to have low confidence at times. So if the club is offering him another contact then they are clearly of the opinion that they can extract what they need out of him and get him past his confidence issues. If that's the case I am in full support of it.

Toumpas's entry into AFL was as bad as Watts, but not as publicised. Like many of our top 10 draft picks he was slotted straight into the team and expected to dominate, I guess like what Wines has done. But he wasn't ready, physically he didn't have a proper first pre-season and he clearly wasn't developing as what they would've liked. But they kept playing him and he kept getting beaten around. Therefore like Watts his confidence was shattered from the very beginning. If the club thinks they can change and improve his mindset I do believe there is a talented footballer inside him, that said there are times when players are unable to get themselves out of their own heads when at a particular club and a change of environment can help to exorcise those demons. If the club wants to re-sign him then so be it, and good luck to him for his time in the red and blue.

I'm a yes. He's been constantly in the emegencies all year, Spencer got concussed v Freo so I'd just give Pencil an early end to the year, rest Dawes (if he's considered to be in our future), and play him as a forward/ruck. Despite what people say he's been a good servant to the club. Took a while for him to hit his straps, ruckman always do, had one blinder of a year with Moloney, and few good ones either side. How we treat our good servants to the club is important. This game means nothing long term, let's give him this game if he would like it.

I haven't seen the game, can't see why I will, but from observations about our general inside 50s (particularly the first quarter) I believe we have continued this path of a "bomb it long" policy. A game plan that seems to have become the norm ever since we lost to West Coast in Darwin. I don't know if it's a complacency with Jesse Hogan believing he can mark anything but fact is he is still young and can't beat 2 or 3 defenders yet. He is a bloody good contested mark for his age in a one on one scenario but opposition defenders have worked out how to gang him. Sounds like there was at least an effort, but losing Jonesy really sucks. I see no reason to play him next week. Keep him fresh to tackle the off season. I'd like us to bring Jamar in for Spencer next week, I suspect he probably won't be at the club next year so let's give him a final game, he deserves it.

I don't know if Grimes is contracted for next year but I reckon he'll be given another run around. He's been serviceable in recent weeks without setting the world on fire. I really hope there's another good cull this off season of NQRs, hoping for an aggressive trade period as well. On this match, I just want the non-negotiable's. Tackling, effort, not giving up, hard running etc. All things we haven't seen in the last couple of weeks, I really thought we were past the point of "just wanting an effort", but here we are again. What I would really love to see is us tackling them to hurt, basically what we were doing earlier in the year. They've got to consider finals in a few weeks so start hitting them hard and they might go into self-preservation mode. (Is that positive enough?)

Congrats to Jonesy, he's given a lot to the club and he's a true club man. If ever the boys are going to lift it should be this week for this man.

Can we call him Junior? It's good to have a Junior Mac back in red and blue! Surprised at the selection, but good luck to him. Couldn't ask for much more of a baptism of fire, away match to the top of the table. Will be interesting to see who makes way for him, Brayshaw and Harmes are out but not really a direct swap for either.

Laugh hysterically for about 24hrs straight while watching the replay and try to work out if our football is actually guided by a magic 8 ball!

I agree with what your saying and to be honest it is a concern of mine with the club (watch out PJ negativity coming), I do believe there is systemic "here we go again" feeling that shrouds the club. It's partly my biggest concern that it gets passed on generation to generation. As much as I love Jonesy he has been around for the worst period in the clubs history, it would be hard for him not to have that somewhere in his mind. Hell even just the likes of Dawes having been around for the Neeld era probably has that in him. Then you've got the likes of Garland, Dunn, McKenzie etc. My point is that it feels ingrained in EVERYONE. That was why getting wins this year was so critical, to make sure the future of our club aren't experiencing that same winless depression and it's why the loss to Carlton hurt so much more than the demolition at the hands of the dogs. Same goes for the losses to St Kilda and Essendon. If they want praise, then yes: we have improved. Our best this year has been really good and exciting to watch. Sadly our worst is still as bad as it has ever been.

I was extremely annoyed to see PJ's clarification and essentially having a dig at the supporters negativity. I think most would agree that for a large portion of this year we have been very positive and supportive in the face of some pretty underwhelming performances. Yes we have had some good wins; Geelong, Richmond, Dogs (1st time around), Pies, and even GC in round one was a hoodoo ticked off. But there have been some soul destroying and frustrating losses as well through the year; St Kilda twice, Essendon, Port come to mind. These last two weeks have been on a difference level though and I think supporters have every right to make sure the club knows we're not going to sit back and take it. That doesn't mean we want them to deviate from the course or that we think we're not going in the right direction but there is no doubt in mind mind there is mindset within the playing group to give up when all is lost for the year. They disgraced themselves and the club in the last two weeks, tell me PJ how are we meant to be positive about that? Are we as fans/members meant to say, "it's all good" or my personal favourite "relax we've got this"? If what PJ said is true then I am filthy with both his and Paul's comments. Every year I am positive at the start, hell I actually thought we'd turned the corner after our win at KP, and maybe we still have, but Paul has one year left. His job was to set the club up with stability on field. We have the coach set but the questions on the playing group remain.

I think your OP sounded out some very good points in there TGR. Speed is a killer with us, as you pointed out we simply have non. Petracca from all reports is one that will add that explosive speed from the pack and show a bit of dash, flair, and dare. Again from reports he is not short in confidence, hopefully the knee injury won't change that. However the Carlton game for me reinforced a deeply ingrained attitude of switching of at the end of the year when all is lost. Not once in our years of crap have the players resolved to finish strongly to set themselves up for next year; Round 17-18 comes and they go through the motions. That third quarter wasn't even good from us, it was sloppy and wasteful and yet we managed to reel in the margin. That shows how bad Carlton are, losing to them may well have undone a lot of good work we have done this year. The Bulldogs game I was annoyed about, particularly the first quarter, but they were red hot and they have speed as you pointed out. They were also fighting for a top 4 spot so of course they would come out with intensity. I also agree with you that steady improvement is what I wanted this year. Our best year has been good enough to beat any team from 7th down, but our worst has been as bad as I have ever seen it. I saw 7 wins as a pass, we won't beat Freo (hell we won't get within 100pts probably) and GWS have our number. So for me this season will be another fail. We needed wins this year. I am in agreement with you though, we need to recruit speed and flair.

I won't be there, I've got to work. Even if I had the day off I would be 50/50 on going. That performance on the weekend was an insult to the fans. Bruise free footy returned for the first half of that game and even the second half was pathetic.

I genuinely wished him success at Geelong, he gave a lot of seasons to the club and wasn't going to get close to winning a premiership with us. Sad that he's never been able to get a clean run of form and injury at the Cats.

The red one definitely looks better than that white. Would like to see it used more.