binman

Getting Tomlinson and Elliot as free agents and so not having to give up any picks would be massive. Both are in the right age range too. And both have finals experience.

Where this from dazzler?

Gives me the opportunity to have the last word then (so i'll make it count). Firstly, it is a given that it is my opinion that that selecting Tyson as part of that deal was a mistake, not a fact. It would get tiresome if every time someone posted a comment on DL they prefaced with it 'in my opinion'. Secondly YOUR opinion is that i am factually incorrect to say 'more in the type of player he is - a contested, inside player with average foot skills. A type we have a surfeit of. We needed silk and we got whatever the opposite is' You go on to to say your opinion is based not on hindsight but on the facts at the time the decisions were made and that the criticism of Roos based on that comment are unfounded. Well i'm sorry, but in MY opinion you are wrong and the facts do not support your argument. In 2013, when Roos decided to split pick 2 and give up the opportunity to get Kelly, Billings or the Bont (a decision i stress that i supported at the time and in the following years) we had the following players on our list who could be fairly described as a contested, inside player with average foot skills. Nathan Jones Jimmy Toumpas Jack Grimes Jack Viney Jack Trengove Jordie McKenzie Luke Tapscott Matt Jones To that list Roos decided to add two more contested, inside players with average foot skills: Dom Tyson Viv Michie That's 10 contested, inside player with average foot skills. We can argue about the word surfeit but in my opinion that is too many and created a list imbalance that persists to this day (and i fully agree that Goodwin has done nothing to address this issue. Nor did Roos for that matter, doubling down in the following draft and trading periods). This is why so desperately need a player like Brad Hill now. In that draft Roos (well his recruiting team) also added: Bernie Vince (great foot skills, but an inside player and slow) Jayden Hunt (an outside player, with speed but poor foot skills) Jay Kennedy Harris (an outside player with average foot skills) Christian Salem (an inside player, with elite foot skills but slow) Looking at the list we started 2014 with (thanks Demonwiki - what a magnificent website, a treasure) - the first year of the Roos era- we only had the following three players i would describe as 'silk' ie outside players, who can cover ground with elite foot skills (i don't count Hogan in this category): Jack Watts Dom Barry (5 games) James Strauss (0 games) And to top that off in terms of elite kicks you could only add Shannon Brynes, Salem and Jetta. Meaning on list of 52 players we only had 6 elite kick and only two of them played more than 6 games. The other relevant issue about the decision to not go to the draft with pick 2 was that you rightly say the deal also involved us giving up pick 20. We could have used both picks 2 and 20 to address our lack of silk. Two could have got us Kelly. And pick 20 could have got us Jarmen Impey (who went at pick 21).

You make some good points LH. As i said i supported the decision to split pick two at the time and for several years afterwards. I'm not critical of the decision - as i said i saw the logic to bring in a couple of quality players given where we were at. But i am also firmly of the view that with the benefit of hindsight it was the wrong call. You're right about the Bont - in hindsight we should have drafted him (though i think Kelly will end his career the equal of Bont). However, i wish you would stop misrepresenting my views. I did not say - and have not said - the recruiting under Roos was poor, so i i completely refute your claims that i am pushing a narrative that it was. In the post you quoted i agreed with the view that under Roos recruiting was 'not disastrous, but far from amazing'. Again, hardly a severe criticism of Roos. At the risk of misrepresenting your views you appear very sensitive about any criticisms of Roos, even measured non controversial criticism.

An e?

I agree. Not disastrous, but far from amazing sums it up perfectly. I supported the decision to split pick 3 at the time as i saw the logic to bring in a couple of quality players given where we were at. Hindsight is wonderful thing but even so history says the club pulled the wrong rein in not taking Kelly (as i posted elsewhere, the 'we would have taken Billings' palaver is a complete furphy - taking Billings over Kelly would have been the wrong move so not sure how that helps the argument. And besides Billings is a good player). But the real mistake in that trade was getting Tyson. Not so much in terms of his ability (though his many critics have been been somewhat vindicated given we traded him for not much and he can't get game av the Roos), more in the type of player is he is - a contested, inside player with average foot skills. A type we have a surfeit of. We needed silk and we got whatever the opposite is. The type of player we recruited under roos (and continued to recruit under goody) has created a problem for us. Which is why i get a little annoyed at Roos distancing himself from where we are at.

I'm living in the now (with my now being 12 months)

He was still stoned?

At the risk of a strange mixed metaphor, the Hawks are our bunny.

I'd be more than happy for Frosty to stay. Improved a great deal this year. I'll grant you he is quick and that is his major asset. I reckon May is surprisingly quick but be that as it may (pardon the pun) speed is useful but not vital as a defender. An ability to read the play, read the flight of the ball, defend on on one and reliably hit targets are more important strengths. Unfortunately Frosty is not particularly good at any of these skills.

How did you think roos went with recruiting when he was coach?

Agree. Assuming you mean he is pretending to be an elite AFL player who is arguably the best kick in the league and moves like a panther.

Sure why not. Coz that's how professional recruiting teams roll.

You really think Frost has an upside with a bullet? He may have some incremental improvement left (eg he might improve his kicking a bit) but he has well and truly reached his ceiling Inside info? He's 26 or some such and has been in the system for 7-8 years. Its not as if he has been hiding under a bushell.

Yes x a million. If i was to choose one player in the league to come to the dees it would be a toss up between Gaff and Kelly

Hawks cooled on Frost.

I suspect that these days deals are by in large locked in well before the trade period begins so little value in staying in a race you are not going to win. Sure staying in the race might drive up the price another club has to pay but what comes around goes around and whilst the player managers love to play that game i doubt the clubs do.

So Adelaide sacked Pyke. Has Goodwin been signed up by the Crows yet?

I was responding to the comment: ' It shows up our excuses...and lack of depth.' I heartily agree with the rest of your post. GWS have really dug deep to get to the prelim. I like GWS and hope they go on to win the flag. Not least because i backed them at 26-1 prior to the dogs game. Their injury list is actually not too bad now and with Cognilio a chance to come back they are not too far of their best team (Ward, Delidio and Patton are the other best 22 out injured). Tough game to back of from but they have the class to roll the Pies and if they do they will have their chance at a GF. On Tomlinson i have little doubt we have more in the pipe line. He will add to our depth but as you suggest is not the answer to our ills. What he will do - as shown last night - is provide a viable option to give Maxy a chop out. Did ok when giving Mummy a chop out i thought. The clincher for me is we don't have to give up any players or picks for him. Only salary cap space.

Good points. Certainly now favours European 3 year olds. Getting very hard to win at the top of the weight range with some many good young horses nearer the bottom of the scale

Swap choice of grog (beer) and video games (sport sims) and it sounds strangely familiar to my summers as a young bloke (winters too for that matter)

No comparison rjay. One, yes they were hit hard by injury. But not as hard as us. Two, they had a good preseason so fitness was not an issue as it was for us (and as I and others have pointed out it's the combination of those 2 factors that really creulled our season). Three they have much greater depth. I don't think they had any players lining up who started the season in an under 18 comp or working on the docks. Four, they are an older, more seasoned team with an age profile that means their players are better able to cope with the impact and demands of an AFL season that goes deep into finals.

Having barely missed a game for a the last four years in a team that has made finals in each of those years. The same people who think we shouldn't get him based on one game probably salivate over highlight videos of prospective draft picks.

That exacta must have paid well. The wining record is what jumped off the page for me. Winners win. I actually ended up backing Scales of Justice (with a saver on Humidor) in that race. 2.20 in such a big field just worries me a little as the more horses the more bad luck can come into play or things pop up. But Gatting? Please. Must be one of the longest prices in group race in vic for many a year. Can't remember one longer actually.

Oh. Wasn't potting Mystic Journey. Thought it would win today. Lamenting my stupidity of not backing it in its last few starts Top win by Mosh Music. Good will to win.