binman

Faulty, you made the argument not me. I asked for evidence to back up your assertion. It is tbe classic strawman play, a favoured trope of peanuts like Murray, to make a big statement that corresponds with their own world view - and when asked for evidence to back it up , don't provide any, and instead say 'prove me wrong'. I rebutted your argument and provided mutiplle examples of evidence to support my argument. But you have not provided a single piece of evidence to support your argument. On polling, a quick search and I found this, from a Murdoch site no less: 'But despite the reassurance a lockdown wasn’t imminent, a news.com.au poll of more than 22,000 people shows that the majority of people in Sydney think that we should go into lockdown. Those in Melbourne and interstate are also very keen for it to happen. https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/australians-seem-happier-to-be-locked-down-than-vaccinated-and-it-makes-no-sense/news-story/4f0b4dbd43b555e8d556f15e8d687f6d By the by the article also directly contradicts your claim that most people wont swallow the b.s any longer.

I didn't suggest you claimed a majority were against lockdown. I know you said opinion is changing. What's your evidence thst opinion is changing.?

Faulty, as i say there is little value in us batting this one back and forth. That said, i have one question - do you really believe this to be true? If so what evidence do you have that it is the case. And by evidence I don't mean the Murdoch/Sky echo chamber. I mean hard evidence. Not a Paul Murray or Peta Credlin editorial. Not anecdotal evidence, or a vibe or all my mates reckon. Hard evidence. I would argue it is completely and utterly untrue. And there is a mountain of hard, real evidence to back up that postion. Public polling for one (google it). I'll be my bottom dollar that even in NSW polling will show very strong support for the decision to lockdown. The Western Australian election. The New Zealand election. Landslide victories on the back of hard health restrictions, border closures and lockdowns. The fact that that every state and territory, bar tassie and Canberra, has chosen to lockdown at some point. And will continue to do so whenever there is on outbreak. Well, until such time as the feds get their [censored] together and 70% of the population is vaccinated. The public support (again see the polls) for the country to be in a virtual lockdown and not allowing international visitors is more evidence. We love that [censored]. Shut the door. Stay away. We're an island The fact there is broad support (again see the polls) for us allowing Australian citizens being stranded overseas. Bad luck mate - we're in lockdown. Which is why a Liberal government not making any move to change the settings on international visitors and travel. Why isn't the coalition, who are all about the free market, doing everything in its power to open the borders to get all businesses humming and international dollars flowing? The answer is obvious - because they would risk being smashed at the next election because there is overwhelming public support for closed borders (again see the polls). If anything they are going the other way becuase narrow path to victory Scotty is a political animal and he knows the public love nothing more than being kept safe. Lock us down ScoMo. Do people hate lockdown? Of course But the evidence that the public support lockdowns to control outbreaks is incontrovertible. If you have evidence to the contrary i would be interested in seeing it.

Exactly. In all likelihood, if we had not chosen an elimination there is no chance we would have kept it to 100, 000 cases. We would have been lucky to have kept it 1, 000, 000 cases. We made the call as country to go down the zero covid path. A path that i supported as did the overwhelming majority of Australians. And i reckon, if truth be told, even the open it up, the cure is worse than the disease, zealots secretly supported it. So easy to make theoretical, ideological statements from the luxury of you covid free soap box. In Victoria we endured a four month lockdown, but that is nothing compared to what say Europe has had to endure. And for most of the rest of the time we have enjoyed, with the rest of Australia, all the benefits of a covid free life. Those benefits include a surging economy, strong consumer confidence, low unemployment - and if you are lucky enough to own a house, record house prices. And it is worth noting that these benefits completely contradict one of the key predictions of the open it up crew - an elimination strategy would cause economic ruin. Well, those dramatic warnings have simply not come to pass - but i don't hear the Paul Murray's and Andrew Bolt's of this world walking back their predictions. These over the top predictions, have not only proven to be completely wrong, they also make a mockery of the narrative such toss posts push that the governments and health authorities are running scare campaigns. What thee commentators should have been banging on about instead of haranguing sate labor governments and pushing an open it up mantra, is using their influence with the federal Liberal party to pressure them to get their act together with the quarantine and vaccination programs. Credit where it is due, Peta Credlin is doing so now. Twelve months ago would have been better, but better late then never.

I want to go Adelaide to watch to watch us beat the 'power' (what a stupid bloody nickname) at Adelaide oval, a ground i have not seen footy at yet. It was right at the top of my to do list this season. Watching us beat them at Geelong does not have quite the same feel about it.

ManDee, do you drive?

Agree to an extent BB. But not when it comes to partisan zealots. And with Paul Murray i can assure you i do not reject him based on his employer. No doubt there are any number of excellent journos who work for Murdoch, many of whom who hold views contrary to mine and that would be happy to engage in a discussion with. I reject him Murray because of his truly offensive and dangerous views on all manner of issues. For the same reason i reject Pauline Hanson and repudiate her views. I'm all for intellectual rigor and debate BB. But to engage with the arguments of such people is to give their aberrant views some level of credibility. And i refuse to engage with world views that have as their foundation a belief that there is alternative facts. Such engagement leads us to the insane situation in America where tens of millions of Americans believe trumps big lie (more than 50% of republican voters), tens of millions believe in Qanon and people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and mark Gaetz can be elected to congress. And who has laid the ground work for that reality? Murdoch. And people are crazy if they think we are not risk of heading down that path here.

It is one in hundred of the people who have caught covid. Meaning if 1000 people get covid 10 will die. Which is low, because the international data suggest 2% death, so it would be 2O. The rest of your data is irrelevant. And a weird strawman argument to boot. What does 8.1 million people in NSW have to do with anything. The reason only 56 people have died from COVID in NSW i becuase they, like the rest of the country have aggressively pursued a can elimination, zero covid strategy. Hence their current lockdown. If they had instead had a suppression, minimization strategy they might have had 100, 000 covid cases and a 1,000 deaths (maybe more, who knows). And your road toll number? Meaningless with out the context of the total number of individual trips and/or hours on the road. This data is from budget direct; The average vehicle travelled 13,301 km per year, or 36.4 km per day The total kilometres travelled on Australian roads in 2018 was 255,031 million For the sake of argument we applied a 0.01% death rate to the total kilometers travelled on Australian roads, in 2018 there would have been 225,503 deaths. Would we still drive then? And mandee, you have been at pains to point out you are not prepared to take the risk of the complications of having the AZ vaccine. You will wait for les risky option. Which of course is your right. So it seems kinda contradictory to be pointing out that 4 million Australians have had Astra Zenneca and only 2 deaths. Why are you waiting?

On Paul Murray? Absolutely BB On the risk of lockdown versus hospitalizations? Not at all, except if the argument is coming from Paul Murray, or any of his Murdoch mafia ilk. Simply no point engaging in a discussion with those with such a clear philosophical agenda. It is both hilarious, and tragic, the knots the Murdoch mafia have tied themselves in over the approach by different states to lockdown, now that their exemplar has elected to also go into lockdown (many would say a week too late - not the Murdoch mafia of course). The hypocrisy and misinformation that has underpinned their coverage is staggering. Just one of thousands of examples:

faulty, my 'quite a tell' comment was related to the fact you watch Paul Murry every night, not the hospitalization data. Paul Murry is a Murdoch lapdog with zero credibility, and is someone i would not trust in anyway on any subject. But given you watch him every night i suspect i am not gong to convince you about how big a dill he is, how dangerous and divisive he, and his Murdoch ilk, are. A poison. So i won't bother. On hospitalization numbers, i have no idea what you mean by no leftist commentator wants to go any where near. Whcy would they want to avoid it. I can't recall the number but di we not have 800 deaths in Victoria last year? And just looking at the todays numbers from NSW they have had 171 cases in this latest outbreak. One of them is in ICU . People are fretting about the extremely small chance of getting seriously ill from AZ. Imagine if the odds were one in 171 of going to ICU. In those same figures NSW reports it has had 5, 637 cases of covid in total and 56 deaths, So one in a hundred (and it is worth noting they didn't have the same issues we di in aged care). Paul Murray and his acolytes might not care about those figures, but most Australians do. But lets not debate it faulty, coz there is zero chance we will come together on this topic.

The SA cases are international arrivals, not community cases, so no shut border i assume: 'Health and government authorities approved a COVID-19 positive family to fly in from overseas to Australia last week on a privately-funded medevac flight'

The SA cases are international arrivals, not community cases, so no shut border i assume: 'Health and government authorities approved a COVID-19 positive family to fly in from overseas to Australia last week on a privately-funded medevac flight' Interesting that the SA health and government authorities allowed a covid positive family to fly in on a privately charted jet given the seemingly ridiculously, over the top processes the Pies and cats had to endure to play a game of footy there (that the dees elected to avoid by playing the QB game in NSW instead of at Adelaide oval).

There are couple of common mistakes that i have made with this system in the past. The main being you have to select general. I just bought a ticket, and there are some left. But only singles at the moment. If they got 85% on friday more will become available, but that is a big if. I was going with friends but couldn't get multiples and did not want to risk missing out again, so i just bought a single. In a pretty good spot too. These instructions from the MFC website are new, and are good actually as they address the common mistakes that are super easy to make. I have highlighted the key bits: How to get tickets Click ---- SELECT DATE ---- and select Club Members & Public Reserve Enter your barcode(s) into the box provided and select Unlock Tickets Click – Select a seating type – and select Melbourne Allocation or General Seating Do NOT select Best available (Any price) Select General Reserved to access a $0 ticket OR select a specific seating area to purchase an upgrade to a reserved seat Use the drop-down box to select your ticket under Upgrade: Adult Club Member Select Next to view your seat Enter the name and mobile number of each member or guest attending Select Go to Checkout to finalise your order

Mmm, in poker terminology, this is quite a tell.

Bwahhhaa. Finally my vsion is becoming a reality. I sent the email below to Gil last year. Theey implemented my hub idea last year, but frustratingly did not credit me, publicly at least. I'm still waiting for the recognition - and AFL life membership But last years hub was no good for us down here in the home of football. Now my Melbourne hub proposal is finally coming to fruition. Gill has listened. And my AFL life membership is assured I will write to Gil again and suggest some cool tweaks to last year’s proposal: Base a couple of teams in G town and train and play at Kardinia park. Base a couple of teams in Ballarat and train and play at Eureka Oval The regions win with these two options Play some games at Princess park, Whitten Oval and Moorabbin, and maybe even Punt road for [censored] and giggles, as they are AFL ready and would bring footy back to the ‘burbs. VFL football is back baby. From: binman Sent: Tuesday, 17 March 2020 9:11 PM To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]> Subject: an idea Hi (to whom it may concern), Looking at the contact list on the AFL site it wasn’t clear where I should send this email to and the [email protected] address seemed as good as any. I know the AFL must have been inundated with all sort of ideas about how to proceed in these crazy times. Well, I have another one to throw into the mix. The idea is relatively simple and whilst it has its obvious complexities I think relatively doable. The idea is as follows: Semi isolate all 18 AFL teams, all their players, support staff (coaching staff, medical teams etc) and umpires in one city for the next six weeks, which is before the expected peak of Covid 19 in say May-June when it is inevitable all games will need to be cancelled. No families or, partners or friends. No non-essential club personnel . I estimate that would be approximately 1200 people. All admin and FD staff could video conference as required. Test every player at the start of the six weeks. In the six weeks play games back to back at a single venue – for example lets say the MCG, Adelaide Oval or god forbid marvel. Each team plays say 8 games – so nearly half the planned 17 games. Completely book out say six hotels close to the playing venue (so you would only have 200 or so at any one hotel spread out over multiple floors and everyone their own room) and smash out the games. Hotels will be completely empty soon enough and would love all their rooms fully booked for six weeks. A good deal could be brokered I suspect. Say it was at the G you could book the Pullman and five other hotels in a the CBD (all within a 2-3km radius). Teams rotate training on the G and at Goshs paddock, Marvel stadium, AAMI Park, Punt Road and Collingwood's training ground. All in walking distance so no buses required (minimising transmission risk). No planes required for players after initial flights into Melbourne for the 8 interstate sides so minimising air travel and need to transit through airports. Also minimise teams having to stay at random hotels and mixing with the public when playing at interstate venues. All team would obviously need spaces for rehab, weights, medicals, match debriefs, team meetings, dieticians etc etc. But all hotels have large meetings spaces, conference rooms and smaller meeting rooms. And of course proper kitchens and no doubt medical facilities. All of the hotels have their own gyms. Probably not up to the standard need but AAMI park, Punt road and the g all have gyms etc. Gyms in the CBD will likely be closed so each club could hire their own gym 24-7 (and cut a good deal as gyms will otherwise likely close). In addition to using Marvel stadium for training (or as the match venue) it has any number of meetings spaces, i assume a gym and entertainment areas if it was felt that was useful. The g has also has all sorts of meeting spaces. For Collingwood, Richmond and the Dees it would hardly be different (apart from living in a hotel of course) as they would use their own grounds, weights room, meeting spaces etc . Completely clean their spaces and the next team gets their turn. Repeat at the G and Marvel. The CBD will be practically empty soon so players could get out and about a little bit. Book out some cinemas (which will be empty) and other entertainment options where players could spread out, so they have something to do. Plenty of parks to wander around for positive head space and a nice hotel room to go back to. Relatively cost effective, particularly given the costs of chartering planes and having teams fly and stay interstate. Channel 7 and fox can leave all their equipment in place. Could be game every night, which both broadcasters would love given the paucity of live sport ATM. Money will continue to flow to the clubs and the AFL. Which will be critical. And may save some clubs. And it will be good for everyone’ morale to be able to watch some footy. The AFL would have measure of control that the simply won’t be able to achieve in other scenarios. Of course players and staff would be away from family but that's workable for six weeks. And of course there are any number of issues and complexities that would have to be resolved. But there will be with whatever option is pursued It could work Please forward this email to Gill and his team. Gill is a fella who thinks outside the square and I reckon if he hasn’t thought of it already my idea might, at the least, be of some curiosity value. Cheers binman

Jaded should be fine then....

I thought you wanted this to be over Jaded? There is only one path. As many Australians as possible getting vaccinated as soon as they can. Like now. If everyone takes your approach and waits two months we'll never get out of this.

And just now it has been announced, after the meeting of the national cabinet, by slowmo that 'anyone' (but I am assuming that means adult over 18 age) can go to their gp and get an Az shot. Get to it younguns. And everyone else.

Pure gold. I loved that expression on that fellas face. Cracked me up. Watching on TV, I was a bit flummoxed as his reaction didn't seem proportionate to anything I saw from tracc. I wondered if there was some other trigger that I missed. But no, on the replay its just tracc turning and cupping his hand to his hear. And the fella was in shock. Hilarious.

Only other people's......

I just saw that - i amended my post accordingly

Maybe in their early years. Definitely not this year. They have been super hard at it all season. Of the teams out of the top 4 probably the best contest team this year, and i include the tigers and swans in that assessment. Their issue is they have been decimated with injury this season.

Oh, then i football. Spargo has been fantastic this year. Kicked some clutch goals too - the one on the weekend was really important. One thing that i reckon some might not fully take into account when assessing how well kozzie, Spargo and Nibbler (and Fritter to a lesser degree) have played is that often when they get the ball they are gassed as a result of how much running they do. Watch how often all three are way up the ground, often deep inside the opposition's 50. And when we win the ball they are often a link in the transition chain and also have to sprint back to get back inside our 50 And compare them to a player like Cameron for the Lions who spends most of his time inside his 50 and when he does leave that area rarely pushes further up than half way.

You can watch almost all of it - for some reason all the replays starts 5 minutes in and ends few minutes before the final siren. But well worth watching. Great to get the opportunity to see the players in the VFL team and our players pushing for a call up. Random thoughts on the game: Casey employ a very similar model, which i guess is captain obvious, but interesting to watch nonetheless One example is the way we look to move it forward around the boundary A related point is the roles players play mirror the structure of the AFL - eg daw rucked for much of the day (with chop outs from Weed), Bowey in the Salem role, White in the Fritter role, baker in the langers role etc etc Weid worked hard - played the role Tmac does in the seniors, so perhaps his best bet is to come in for tmac. He dropped a couple of marks where he had done all the work and had his opponent cold, which seems often be an issue for him. Must be a technique thing ( in cricket we would say hard hands) because he has good hands on the lead Brown still does not look all that agile, which I suspect is what is keeping him out of the team. But 5 goals is 5 goals and you have to love how accurate his kicking is. His fourth was a thing of beauty. Had to kick from about 40 metres, on a slight angle, with wind also being a factor. Such is his confidence with his technique that he was able to deliberately start it to the right of the goal post and let the wind bring it back. perfect I also thought brown was ok pressure wise, creating at least one goal with a tackle Melksham's pressure was also pretty good i have to say, which is a great sign. Hit a beautiful 50 metre left foot kick to a forward's advantage, which is exactly why he is big chance of getting back into the side I love Neville Jetta - easily one of my all time favorite players. Works so hard in every game he plays and a brilliant role model for the young players (postscript; just watched all the VFL goals video and saw that jetts kicked the last of the game - something missed on the replay becuase it finished before the end of the game! - nice gola nev - boys really got around him too) Jones was simply brilliant. Played smart, played with intensity, played like a true leader and played like an intent on winning his spot back. Pretty good goal too I really like Captain Jack Sparrow, and thought he was terrific against the bombers, but i suspect Jones will bump him into the medical sub role this week given Goodies comments about picking blokes in form Bedford has some real toe Bowey and Laurie are both natural footballers and both are excellent kicks, Bowey particularly so, which warms my heart Rosman has some real x factor and get up and go too - loved his super smart kick into a small pocket of space to set up one of brown's goals Vanders looked to be moving really freely and used the ball really well in the main. Is a wild card for finals for sure given how strong in the contest he is and the importance goody puts on winning the hard ball - not mention our focus this year of only having one player go to the contest and/or tackle.

I football. At least i I think i do.