Rollo2

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-melbourne-demons--clint-bartram Before today this site says he was 16.12 for his career. On another day he would have kicked two and you guys would be toasting him. Not even joking.

I reckon I've seen him kick as many as he misses. Does anyone know his career stats for Goals/Behinds?

Things I reckon: 1. At the moment Nathan Jones is indispensable for us. 2. Howe is going to be a genuine gun. 3. Blease will also make it. 4. Scully's workrate is pretty amazing, but his skills are not. If GWS offers him millions of dollars he'd be foolish not to take it. We shouldn't match the offer for him.

I thought he was alright. Should have kicked three goals, but they just didn't go straight today. On another day they will. Howe, Sylvia and Morton all also missed sitters today. They're down on confidence, it happens. Barts put Kerr down hard and it was nearly a quarter till he (Kerr) touched it again. Would still prefer him in the team to Strauss or Bennell.

Before the Geelong game two of the biggest losses in AFL history were us (again!) by 190 points and St Kilda by 171 points. Both teams won the following week after those losses. Also, St Kilda lost by 178 points in 1979 before almost causing one of the great upsets the following week, going on to lose narrowly to Geelong the following week. Also, just a few weeks ago Adelaide lost by 103 points and won the weekend after. Underdogs win in sport all the time, and teams that have gotten hammered bounce back all the time. But not if they have the attitude that they can't do it because the team they're playing is just 'a better side'.

I think we're a chance. Mainly because I refuse to believe our team will play an entire season without putting in a single gutsy performance against a top side. And this is our last chance to do that. All you guys saying we can't win because they're a better side than us, what is that? Seriously, what is that? Some kind of defence mechanism against disappointment? Or the desire to be able to say 'i told you so' later? Are Geelong a better side than Essendon? Are Essendon a better side than Richmond? Do upsets not happen in AFL any more through sheer desire and intensity? You guys are showing exactly the defeatist attitude the playing group has been showing all year. It sucks. Go Dees.

I know this is a Melbourne forum, but how good was Judd? Just unstoppable today. Do we need to draft a specialist tagger or do we think Jordie will be up to the task within a few years?

Agree. Very harsh on Jurrah. One of our few players who really threatens opposition defences and gives opposing coaches match-up worries. And yeah maybe he doesn't work as hard as some, but those hard working types don't normally do what Jurrah often does either. He was the difference between us and the Tigers IMO, and crucial in us holding off Port. Not every player is going to be a Nathan Brown (the Dee) type, nor should they be. I feel he could have really turned it on this weekend, but now we'll never know.

I also (like almost everyone here) think it's probably the right decision. Teams don't lose by 186 unless there is something very very wrong. Teams don't lose by 186 with coaches that should stay on. It's tough and I feel sad for Dean, but when it's not working it's not working, and something's got to give. My honest opinion is that Bailey came to the club knowing that he was going to be a rebuilding coach, and so his adopted attitude was one of confidence regarding the future but almost insouciance regarding week to week results. He'd sit time and time again after losses, unfazed, talking about game plans, quarters won and so on. But four years into a rebuild you can't do that anymore, and I think his failure to recognize that has been his downfall. Four years in, you need to start demanding more from a playing group, and giving them hell if they're not giving it to you. And I think Bailey has mainly failed at making this transition. It is way past time for us to lose Bailey's 'rebuild' mindset. Not saying that we don't still have a lot of developing to do, just saying that we won't develop any more till we stop seeing ourselves through that lens. Wish DB all the best, and still have a lot of respect for the guy. His personal dignity was possibly never more impressive than after the game yesterday.

It's strangely comforting reading this thread. At least when you do you realize how many people out there feel your disappointment. Can I make a prediction though? An absolute roasting in the media, followed by a much improved performance – probably a narrow loss, maybe even a win – next week against the Blues. Seriously. For a couple of years now the only thing that fires our playing group up is bottoming out and then getting lashed by the media. PS Bailey has to go.

Thanks for that wisedog! How good was Schwarter's punch? The man was a monkey genius.

Go Sam! Pressure really is on Bate now with two other rangas ahead of him at the selection table. BTW Is this the youngest MFC team ever? They're pretty freaking young.

Agree. Tank for Strauss. I think Strauss is making steps, but is still a weak link, and we're in finals contention now so we need our best team out there. But I think I'd keep Joel Mac, he's been pretty strong down back. Either Bennell or Morton to make way for Davey for mine. But there is a group of runners forming there who should be constantly pressuring each other for spots depending on form, and I have to say based on this year Flash is in it, VC or not. I'd include Include Bail in it too, who is back soon, and Evans and Bartram. I feel like in the last month we've gained four mids – Scully, Mckenzie, Evans and Nicholson, and now have some respectable depth there, for the first time in years.

Hm. Getting really tired of this kind of 'premiership window' thinking. Tired of supporting a team that doesn't feel like it has to go out and give %100 because even if it loses by 80 points that's about 'where it should be' at this 'stage' of development. And look, everything you've said here is true. We all know it, and our players know it, and our coaches know it, and the football world knows it. But it still annoys me that our team won't go out and give it their all to win a game of football unless the media and football world have been slamming them all week. Only then do they play for pride. Otherwise they are just going through the motions and giving up when the going gets hard, because their 'window' isn't open yet. I just hope that you and all the fans with this mindset (and our players) are gearing up for a day very soon when an 80 point loss to a traditional rival with their best players out in front of a huge crowd is actually not good enough anymore.

Yep. Really battling at AFL level at the moment and seems to lack confidence and enthusiasm. Does anyone know, has he always been a defender? Because some players just have characters that aren't suited to it. I'm thinking maybe he was a gun midfielder as a junior and is being used as a defender 'cause he doesn't have the tank yet or legspeed? All speculation here.

After the game on Saturday I was pretty sure Aaron had played a shocker, but after watching it again (it was on at my work, I'm not that much of a tragic) I actually think he played pretty well. His mark, play on and spear pass straight onto Jurrah's chest (which he spilt) in the last quarter was at a crucial moment, and was exactly the on-field leadership everyone seems convinced he's not showing. His form has been down admittedly, but after having what for me is a rare chance to watch a game twice, I was definitely surprised by how much I had underrated his game the first time around, and in future I'm going to keep that in mind when judging his performances. We may be taking a lot that he does for granted.

Good thinking. Macnamara though? I think MacDonald is the man for this particular structure after his various indiscretions this year. If only we still had Pickett.

Not Russian! Biggest injury MFC has suffered for quite a while. Throw Jurrah in, man has wings.

Last year we reacted similarly to a roasting in the press after round 1 and brought our A game out against the pies in round 2. It seems that when the heat is really turned on this team they can find an extra level of intensity. But I don't necessarily think that's a good thing. I mean, it's better than if we absolutely couldn't find an extra gear to slip into. That would suck. But it also shows how far below full intensity and effort Melbourne players often play. And there aren't many teams in the league who wouldn't be able to lift a gear and have a big win after the kind of scrutiny we saw directed at us last week. Personally I'm concerned that the whole 'rebuilding' and 'premiership window' mentality that dominates football clubs' thinking these days might be leading to a kind of malaise in teams who don't feel their window has opened yet, where players don't put in full efforts in games and lie down and accept losses instead of busting a gut to get back into them and fight for wins. I'm concerned that this malaise is why we can find such an extra gear when we actually are busting a gut and playing for pride, and i'm concerned about what that might be doing to the development of our younger players. Which is why I think no one should be letting up on our young Dees at all right now. If they come out half-arsed again next week, or any week for that matter, they should cop it. Because as we now all know, it's not that they lack the talent, or size, it's all in their commitment and application.

That's valid. But voting 'yes' out of sentiment is surely allowed

That's assuming zero injuries, and that Blease hits his straps. I still would be a lot more comfortable with a bit more depth in the midfield.

I also think we could use a bit more midfield depth. Seriously. If one of our mids got injured this week who would come in? Strauss? Ergh. Evans? And that is with what is probably the shortest injury list we've had for years!

I voted 'Yes' for two reasons – One, (contentious) he may still have some good footy left in him if he can get his body right. He was a 5th draft pick and touted as a future AFL captain early in his career. Injuries have taken their toll, but a lot of players have been able to come back from long stints out and rediscover good, if not their best form. Two, (not contentious at all) he is a top bloke. Met him once and was amazed at how keen he was to talk footy and the dees with a supporter. And I still think putting 10K down for the club was an inspiring act.

Morton looks unhappy. Never seen someone so nonplussed at kicking a goal when their team is 5 goals up.

Hurley has been amazing, and so far it definitely looks as if he'll be the better player of the two. Which of course doesn't mean that Watts won't be a good player (I actually think he's already a good player), or that Watts can't have a better career than Hurley long term. Jack's size, speed, agility and smarts will make him a nightmare to match up on when he builds confidence and our midfield is consistently winning in the guts. And there can be no recriminations for our recruiters for taking Watts. No team would have taken Hurley with the number one pick. He's one that has just developed incredibly well and has a great hunger and attack of the footy. Good on him! The one thing I do worry about is how all the scrutiny (this thread included) will affect Watts' development and enthusiasm for football.