P-man

Being in Canberra mate, I'm in the same boat. Would be getting to a few games if I was back in Melbs, but I have to resort to the match uploads and following the club and supporter reviews.

Don't get bogged down by that. I've said repeatedly I think he deserves a chance on merit. It's not simply about charity. But doing the right thing by the player does come into it.

I understand he has deficiencies but if he's putting in consistently strong performances at VFL level, how can you be certain as to the degree he has improved upon those deficiencies until they are once again tested at AFL level? He hasn't played a game this season. Not one. He's also being played in a variety of more attacking roles in the seconds so he doesn't necessarily need to be pigeonholed in the backline. I'll be bitterly disappointed of the club doesn't see fit to get him to 100 games given the servant he has been. It's two games ffs. In a season we are pretty clearly not playing finals in. But nah, let's give Kent another three or four games in a row to put in lacklustre efforts until that one game he does something useful. Agree to disagree.

As an astute fella it surprises me you rate Rockliff. I think he averaged 5 metres gained per possession in his last game. It was something ridiculous like that. He is the absolute king of the cheap, nothing possession. Good for SuperCoach points and that's pretty much it. It's little wonder Lewis Taylor is a crab when he has Rockliff as a mentor. Plus there are the question marks over his leadership which you allude to. We need damaging outside players. Not Rockliff.

As much as Tom Mitchell has elevated his game, Carlton would need to have rocks in their head to trade him in for a KPP of Weitering's quality. He's worth at least two Tom Mitchells.

He also has ability. I have been a Grimes critic in the past. He's frustrated me. But at some stage the weight of criticism went well beyond reasonable. He's clearly deserved a game this season in comparison others who have been given chance after chance, seemingly irrespective of performance.

Selections should be made on form, not preconceptions. Grimes has well and truly earned his opportunity. If Matt Jones can improve to a point where his absence from the side can become noteable, anything is possible.

Plapp's VFL reviews are basically all positive but his latest one for Grimes speaks volumes. He considers Casey very fortunate to be having Grimes in the team week on week, and the clear message was that he should be playing in the AFL side.

We can't lose to this rabble. Surely not. I might put the tv remote in bubble wrap just in case.

Ralph has said on the Fox Footy post match that Hibberd is a "better than average" chance of ending up at Melbourne. Chuffed if we get him. He'll make us a better side.

20,320. On a Friday night. Smallest Collingwood crowd since wartime. I can actually feel my heart smiling.

They lack currency and overall relevance to me. I would also seriously question their criteria when looking at some of their rankings over recent years.

It's a fair mane. He's got Jonesy comfortably covered there. The only other trait Sloane could be considered elite in is "significant other". Belinda Riverso. She could riversonto me any time.

Gawn is our only elite player at present. Outsiders would argue tyhat there needs to be a larger sample size but I think we've seen enough to know that he's an elite ruckman. Jones, Vince and Viney (with two fully functioning hands) are A graders. Tyson lacks the consistency to be classed as such. Tom McDonald's C grade attributes bring his overall rating down from A to B. Hogan needs to increase his defensive output to become an A grader. One tackle every now and then won't cut it. Long distance set shots are also a mild concern. Contested marking wise, which is pretty damn important, he is elite. Overall though, he's still a B grader.

Probably the best illustration of how farcical those ratings are.

A thinner spread of votes this week. Maxy deservedly takes the lead, Hunt makes a jump to the edge of the top ten, while Watts moves into the top five. The captain has polled in all but one game so far this year. Demonland Player of the Year: Unofficial Tally Votes (games polling votes/games played) 1. Gawn - 365 (10/13) 2. Viney - 335 (8/12) 3. N Jones - 273 (12/13) 4. Vince - 264 (11/12) 5. Watts - 204 (10/13) 6. Tyson - 197 (7/12) 7. Jetta - 192 (9/12) 8. Hogan - 168 (8/13) 9. Kennedy - 114 (6/12) 10. Stretch - 76 (3/8) 11. Hunt - 74 (5/10) 12. T McDonald - 73 (7/13) 13. Bugg - 69 (5/13) 14. Garlett - 65 (4/9) 15. Petracca - 56 (4/8) 16. Oliver - 48 (4/10) 17. Kent - 32 (3/12) 18. Wagner - 31 (5/11) 19. Harmes - 30 (3/11) 20. Lumumba - 24 (2/5) 21. M Jones - 13 (2/4) 22. Frost - 12 (3/8) 23. Pedersen - 8 (4/7) 24. Salem - 3 (1/7) 25. Trengove - 3 (1/2) 26. Garland - 1 (1/6) Best per round (vote order) Rd 1 (GWS): Viney, Watts, T McDonald, Kennedy, N Jones, Oliver, Gawn, Vince, Jetta, M Jones, Hogan Rd 2 (Ess): Kennedy, Garlett, N Jones, Vince, Tyson, M Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Pedersen Rd 3 (Nth): Viney, Gawn, Vince, Lumumba, Jetta, Oliver, Hogan, Kent, Salem Rd 4 (Coll): Watts, Viney, Gawn, Wagner, Tyson, N Jones, T McDonald, Lumumba, Kennedy, Pedersen, Frost, Bugg, Hogan, Jetta Rd 5 (Rich): Gawn, Viney, Tyson, Vince, Garlett, T McDonald, Watts, Kent, N Jones Rd 6 (StK): Hogan, Viney, N Jones, Watts, Jetta, Gawn, Vince, Tyson, Bugg, Kennedy, Pedersen Rd 7 (GC): Gawn, Viney, N Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Oliver, Bugg, Hunt, Vince, Wagner, Pedersen, Garlett Rd 8 (WB): Jetta, Tyson, Viney, Kennedy, Stretch, Vince, T McDonald, Watts, Hogan, Jones Rd 9 (Bris): Hogan, Stretch, Bugg, Petracca, N Jones, Watts, Garlett, Oliver, Harmes, Wagner, Vince, Garland Rd 10 (PA): Gawn, Jetta, N Jones, Hogan, Watts, Hunt, Stretch, T McDonald, Viney Rd 11 (Haw): Vince, Tyson, N Jones, Jetta, Watts, Gawn, Hunt, Frost, Wagner, Petracca, Trengove Rd 12 (Coll): Gawn, Vince, N Jones, Tyson, Kent, Bugg, Hogan, T McDonald, Petracca, Frost, Hunt, Kennedy, Watts Rd 13 (Syd): Hunt, Vince, Gawn, Watts, Petracca, N Jones, Wagner, T McDonald

Genuinely shocked he hasn't copped a week. The consistency is non-existent. Will happily take it though.

Interesting to note that Grimes' last three games in a Melbourne jumper, Rounds 21-23 last year, saw him averaging 24 disposals, 4 tackles and a goal per game.

6. Hunt 5. Gawn (58 hit outs and 8 tackles) 4. Vince 3. Petracca 2. Wagner 1. Jones

Track has been good. Vince has been okay. And um....yeah. It wouldn't be a Melbourne loss without a no name having a day out. Enter Dean Towers.

I was being facetious. Player contract amounts aren't something I give any real thought towards. As long as we are fitting all our key players under the cap, I'm happy. It's why I've never understood the complaints over what we were/are paying Dawes. We had a minimum spend, and Dawes was around at the right time to be deemed worthy of the reported salary he was given. Good luck to him.

People get defensive when it comes to how Jones is rated. Myself included. It's understandable as to why. The bloke IS the club. Out of interest, what is the one trait that separates Sloane from Jones?

Maybe let this one go Ads. None of those lists have 8-10 elite mids, unless the likes of Matthew Sfokes and Brad Sewell were considered elite. In Tyson, Petracca, Oliver and Brayshaw we have four top five picks in our starting midfield. Throw in Viney who would've gone top ten at worst, and it's five. Add in Salem, and it's six top ten picks. That is called being spoiled and more than enough of a foundation. Players don't have to come from the absolute pointy end of the draft to become a permanent fixture of the midfield. Stretch, Kent, Kennedy, Hunt, Harmes, vandenBerg and Neal-Bullen are all fairly likely types. Prestia would be a good addition but he's not a must get.

Agreed. Who, if you had to, would you drop for Grimes?

Even if he's trying to be funny, "HeppelltitisD" has to be the worst username in footy forum history.