bing181

Yes, I know, but it's odd to find one of these little critters within the confines of a forum such as this. I don't know, should Demonland only be open to Demon supporters? After all, there are plenty of other forums on the net where trolls opposition supporters can contribute their 2c.

Must have missed that bit. Where in the Tribunal's ruling does it find ASADA's case "hopelessly constructed"? All the tribunal found was that they couldn't be sure that the plant that makes TB4 actually made TB4. BTW, who the hell are you???

Short of a positive test or a confession, it will for ever remain so. The best we could hope for is "comfortable satisfaction".

Which is just an opinion. Yours. As such, it's not "certainly" anything.

On a team-wide scale, they're on their own. As much as anything else, because they were the only ones who gave the good Mr. Dank free rein.

Not just the court of public opinion. Of course we tanked - don't think that part of it was ever a point of contention. The contentious part was why we were being penalised and no-one else was.

From what I can see, not too many seem to share your view. The outcome at the tribunal turned on one decision, whether or not it was TB4 that left the plant - that manufactures TB4. Once that domino didn't fall, none of the others followed.

I'd agree with that.

My god, that's what's known as a footballing lesson! Hard to not be impressed by Fremantle, the unrelenting pressure is something to behold. But ... how long can they keep it up?

No they weren't, because we could never have had Wines and Grundy .... Been thrashed over here ad nauseam, the trade of Pick 3 for Hogan was part of the deal that let Viney slip to pick 26 and gave GWS a clear run at the first 3 picks. In any case, it's all irrelevant. Hogan is a once in a generation player, the kind of player you can build a team around (as Chris Connolly remarked today ...). Whatever we had to pay was worth it.

Stretching it. White confessed because he was at US Postal and was effectively named in the USADA Armstrong case as Rider 9. Hodge stopped riding in 1996 so a) way past the statue of limitations of 8 years and b) to my knowledge, no samples (both A and B) are stored from that period.

No. It looks like he has a calf injury that didn't come good in time.

... from someone constantly questioning Watts' toughness. Not to mention, hiding behind a continually changing user name. Neither particularly brave.

Nah, too menacing. Met her once ... still not quite recovered. Intimidating.

Not sure what you mean. If it's the retrospective testing for the 1998 Tour, that was for EPO (not blood doping), it only concerned Armstrong and O'Grady, and these weren't official tests (no B-sample for example) so there were never any associated penalties or charges. Hodge and Matt White never tested positive, even retrospectively. Both confessed to doping after their retirement.

Even the point your making isn't so much about witnesses, it's about evidence. There were witnesses who presented testimony in the Armstrong case, but the nail in the coffin to some extent was that there was documentary evidence of transactions: bank details, emails etc. ASADA also had plenty of documentary evidence, seized files etc. etc. The bulk of their case was accepted, just not that the substance that's at the heart of it was what it purported to be. If you assume that what left the manufacturer in China was in fact TB4, then it all plays out very differently. ASADA also called a number of witnesses e.g. in regards to the spectrometry tests.

I would suggest that it's the people hearing the cases who made the difference.

Or, rather than get into a d*ck-measuring contest about who is or isn't an authority on the game, or who does or doesn't understand footy ...you could just ignore them.

Sure, but none of it was evidence that could ever be corroborated, many of those testifying against him had axes to grind, and none of the substances in question were ever tested. It's not for nothing that the Federal Inquiry into Armstrong didn't lead to any charges being laid, they knew they would have trouble getting past the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard required. USADA on the other hand, with the lower "comfortable satisfaction" didn't have the same reservations - even though the evidence and testimonies were the same. The other difference was that the testimonies in the Armstrong case were all sworn - though whether or not that should make a difference in a WADA/doping case is questionable. Not saying Armstrong was innocent, far from it, just pointing out that the differences may well be differences of scale, but aren't really differences of substance. Biggest difference, of course, is that there was no Tribunal.

i don't think anyone's against it, but it would go against what Roos and co have been saying, and what they've done in the past. Seems very early in the kid's career to be throwing him into the firsts against one of the best bunch of (mature) mids in the comp. Would have thought Toumpas, Jones, Riley and Bail would be ahead of him at the moment - though all of those are different types of players.

Interesting how few of Melbourne's "failures" have managed to really kick on elsewhere. Col joins a shortish list of young retirees, alongside Gysberts and Morton. About the only exception is Stef Martin, though Old Dee's favourite player is at least a regular in WCE's firsts. Good luck Col, hope you find doing what you really want to be doing rewarding.

If that's your argument, Toumpas and Grimes won more of the pill. And if that's your argument, James Magner would be in our first 22 every week.

Let's play him as a forward, let's play him as a swingman down back, let's spend the whole pre-season with him training with the mids ... he's been thrown from pillar to post under a revolving door of failed coaches in one of the worst sides of the current era. Might have had just a little bit to do with the water that's gone under the bridge. That he hasn't just given up and walked away from the club, if not footy, is something in itself, and has earned him my support, if not respect.

Seriously? Thank god you're not selecting. You can't see past your own biases. Jones and Terlich are the turnover kings.

No.