bing181

No, of course he wasn't that bad. In fact, I'd say it was his best game for the year. But this is Demonland.

Tom McD interview on the club site worth a watch, both for what he says about our performance today, but especially what he says about Hawthorn. Great to get a clear and honest view from the inside. He'll be in the leadership group next year. The changing of the guard is starting. Amongst all the gloom, a few players weren't entirely disgraced today. Garland and Tommy Mac were good, especially given the pressure they were under, Garlett played his role well, Pedersen pulled out his annual "see, I do know how to play" game, Tyson had probably his best game for the year - though still off the pace from last year - and under the onslaught, Cross, Jones and Vince kept battling. Falls away badly after that though.

Can't imagine Watts would have much currency. There is no silver bullet, no-one's going to come over the hill on a white horse, no single player is going to turn the club around. The only way to improve is to put in the hard yards, from the Board down to the boot studder, accept that there will be setbacks along the way, and build the kind of team and culture that we've seen at clubs like Hawthorn and the Swans. Which will take time.

Article on the AFL site mentions that he was solid - Plapp seems to think he'll be there for a couple of weeks, that it isn't just a one-off.

I don't know that there'll be that many changes - not exactly a lot of players knocking the door down. Or anywhere near the door. Spencer will stay in. From the report on the VFL match: "Mark Jamar struggled throughout and Max Gawn kicked just one goal. Tall utility Jack Fitzpatrick was taken to hospital as a precaution after hurting his neck in the first quarter." Someone has to come in for Salem, but Hogan will be back, hopefully Jetta. Stretch is a bit out of his depth at the moment, understandably. Roos spoke of tiredness amongst the younger players, especially after 3 heavy weeks against the top sides, so perhaps there'll be some rotations on that basis. Vandenberg and Brayshaw didn't look anything like they did a few games back.

Deck-chair swapping. And not very appealing deck chairs at that. JKH and Newton were both poor against Sydney, and Riley hasn't exactly been carving it up, even at VFL level.

Agree - but to add, there's a limit to how many players you can turn over. We made 12 changes at the end of 2013, and another 10 last year. That we still have NQR players on the list, shows how deep the problems lie, problems Roos inherited. It's also easy to talk about delisting players, but who do we get in? There's no point signing up 10 Viv Mitchies or Aiden Rileys, we need genuine A-graders. I actually feel that overall, the drafting etc. since Roos came on board has been very good. But it will take time to bear fruit, and we're in for some pain in the meantime.

I'll go against the grain in saying that actually I feel Jones has improved. He's managing to get disposals in/out where he wouldn't have in the past. His problem is he's our only really decent mid, he often has to do too much, and he's the Melbourne player who'll always be heavily tagged. For me Vince has been OK, Tyson looked a bit better today, but wouldn't disagree on the others. Jamar understandable, he's getting to the end, but Howe especially ... hard to know what's going on there, he just looks out of place and disinterested. The fluffed intercept where he let the ball float through at markable height ... painful to watch.

More than anything else, disappointing. Disappointing in the longer term by way of making the team attractive to free agents etc., disappointing for the young players we need to keep, disappointing in terms of building our membership and sponsorships and the financial limitations that that will create, and disappointing for the players themselves, regardless of how much they've brought it on themselves. The gulf between where our players are and where Hawthorn are ... impossible to see how it can be bridged in anything under, what, 5+ years. There's not a Hawthorn player out there you wouldn't be happy to have the ball in their hands, have them going for a one-on-one, have them needing to nail a disposal. We have only a handful of those kinds of players. To Roos' credit, we've seen surprisingly few of these blow-outs, which for those with short memories, used to be almost a weekly occurrence. But to even have one match like this just shows how far behind we still are, and how fragile our gains are. Disappointed, disappointing.

Which will achieve what?

Me too. Out of the three teams we've played in a row, Hawks look the most threatening. Ominous when they get the ball. Not much we can do with the cattle at our disposal, frustrating as it may be.

ANB ... looking good. Another week or two and he could be knocking on the door. Good to see Jack W amongst it.

So much angst over swapping a few fringe players for some other fringe players. 3 of the 4 dropped contributed next to nothing last week. Mitchie and Jones would be an upgrade on JKH and Newton, at least the way they've played recently, Grimes, we'll have to see, and Bail will probably be sub, and snaffle a goal when he comes on. Jones and Grimes, at least, have been very good at Casey, and the Roos ethos is, if nothing else, play your role, work hard, do what you're supposed to, and we'll support you. But the most important for me is that it's not so much about who comes in, as who goes out. The message has to be, if you don't perform, we can't guarantee your place. I'd rather be bringing in NQR players to keep pressure on those already in the team, than let mediocre performances be enough for players to hold their place.

And another interesting article from an unexpected source, Chip in The Australian: WADA's appeal to place more faith in Dank's word

Anyone know what these cases were? Quick search didn't turn anything up.

Incredible. I always expected it ... but still really shocked. Just confirms what we all felt, and confirms what more than a few have been saying about the Tribunal and its judgement.

Wouldn't be unhappy with no change unless it's for an injury, JKH as sub. Agree that JKH might be due for a spell at Casey, but don't see that anyone there would really be an upgrade. I'd leave JKH in until Viney is ready to come back. Alternatively, JKH for Matt Jones. We know Jones' shortcomings, but he would at least bring a bit of movement and pace.

That's what makes the opposition good in the first place.

Just when I think Demonland can't be even more ill-informed, along comes a thread like this. Next we'll be hearing that the earth is flat because, heh, you only have to look around you and obviously it's flat, what were they thinking. Given that we out-scored Sydney in the second half, you could - if you were so inclined - take that as evidence that our boys have more stamina and endurance than Sydney, and that that's down to the success of the diet.

That's right, we're losing against last year's grand finalist because of our game plan.

One word: Skills

Some odd comments on these pages. More than a few pushing their personal barrows, irrespective of the reality. Happy with the changes, the new ins have earned it, and it would seem that the outs have earned it as well.

Can people stop going on about Riley. There are question marks on his disposal and his fitness. He does one thing well. As we're seeing, that's not enough.

Do something with the ball once he gets it.

Goes to the heart of it.