DeeSpencer

Toumpas as sub makes sense to me. Eases the burden on debuting players. Viney and Matt jones have been prepared to play round 1, lets see how they go. Sounds like no Dawes, sensible decision. Hope tommy Mc plays because I think gillies can play but he's not a strong big defender he's more of a third tall. That might make us very tall but the club obviously has faith in watts, Dunn and garland having the speed to play small. That said I thought terlich was the man for the last defensive spot. Have Nicholson, Jetta or Strauss done enough?

I'd consider the Geelong tactic and start blease, Sylvia or Rodan loose at chb for the first bounce with the instruction of running straight through the guts and hopefully getting on to the ball. The first play doesn't decide the match but I certainly agree that a spark helps set the tone.

I'm not convinced. There is a lot of Fitzpatrick about him as he's got the speed but does he have the size and strength to make it. He's a guy I'd like on my list but not be overly keen on paying up for him. As said previously we just need to watch Gawn especially for the year and see how he goes.

newton had spencer covered by miles. Actually could kick the ball and moved ok as well. Remember mark of the year. Bloke was just too flaky for the afl.

Moloney, Rivers and Gysberts are the 3 with potential to hurt us. Moloney and Rivers obviously walked and could play very well for their new sides. Gysberts was traded and again I think it was the right move but highly rated midfielders who haven't had the time/work effort to develop their bodies can still end up good players. Imagine if Essendon got rid of Watson a few years ago and he popped up at another club. Even Sam Blease was looking like never making it last year and now we all love him. I remember something Grant Thomas once said in that he delisted Guerra mainly to send a message to the young saints that mediocre isn't good enough knowing fair well they had Milne and had other talents as small pockets. Clarkson swooped and got himself a trusty defender and the rest is history. On the balance of probabilities I'm not sure how much Gysberts has in him regardless of effort, if he doesn't get fit, strong and clean up his disposal he'll just be a plodder with decent hands, but again he could be our version of Guerra. We'd take McLean back on the books for free but the deal was fine. Obviously Scott Thompson wanted to go home and there isn't/wasn't a melbourne supporter who wouldn't loved to have kept him but that's the way it goes sometimes. Oh and if anything this thread highlights what went wrong from 2010 to 2012 where we were looking the goods but it all fell in a heap. In 2010 Bennell and Petterd looked like future quality players on respective flanks, Martin was a great athlete capable of being a special talent as a back up ruck but more than anything the midfield of Moloney, Scully, Morton and Gysberts looked to form part of a generation that would take us somewhere. 2 years later and they are all gone.

Of course not but how about least talented player to get 6 years on an AFL list in the last 20 years if not ever.

What is Spencer growing into. He's had plenty of time to develop his body and it hasn't helped him. He's probably the least talented bloke to ever play AFL football in the history of the game. Gawn certainly needs games at Casey and at AFL level but injuries are a major issue. Same with Fitzpatrick, he needs time but he doesn't look like a natural AFL level talent. Pedersen and Sellar are only even back ups. The reason we'd change Clark is that he nearly was AA playing in the ruck. He's very skilled and fit. He enjoys the position. And as mentioned we could have 2 very decent replacements in the forward 50 in Dawes and Hogan. Now I think in a couple of years Gawn is hopefully a very good first ruck, Clark can be the guy to give him a chop out during quarters and Dawes and Hogan make a potent forward line with Clark. But I don't see how the thought of Clark being a full time ruckman can astound anyone.

Are you stuck in the 90's/early 2000's?

I agree, I think it's all of our concern. I think what we are doing is trying to keep the first group getting the ball but work on their disposal individually and as part of a system. McDonald and Garland are shut down defenders. Garland's skills are reasonable its just his brain that goes. I think its why Dunn and Watts are part of the backline. Grimes is similar, sometimes brilliant sometimes poor with disposal. Macdonald and Nicholson I think will be pushed out unless they improve. The next group are more frustrating. Strauss just doesn't find the ball enough down back but again he's never had a good run at it. Davey is finished. Trengove went backwards in terms of ball winning last year. I think Blease, Tapscott and Sylvia are about playing in our forward line and not having the fitness required. I'm really hoping those 3 show more this year but unless the team does I'm not sure they will individually.

Spencer is being kept for depth this year. In case Jamar went down we couldn't rely on Gawn due to injury so we needed Spencer. He'll need to improve dramatically to stay on the list. I have little confidence in Fitzy but as a ruck his speed might be more useful than first thought. We can reassess him in August. Gawn on the other hand has really only being set back by injury and has proven he is a beast at VFL and a prospect in some AFL he has played. 2 knee reco's is worrying. I'd say Gawn is still on track to be an above average starting ruck by the time he's 25 which is the age for ruckmen. The X factor is big Mitch Clark. With Dawes and Hogan we could transfer Clark to starting ruck and keep Pedersen as backup. At the end of this year the ruck situation will have to be assessed. Spencer and Fitzpatrick are playing for their careers and if they aren't up to it we will need replacements. Whether they be 18 year olds or mature players depends on who's available. Giles from GWS proved a bargain pick up 2 years ago and now Currie from North looks decent enough to at least be a good back up. Value is out there if we are clever.

The hard thing to understand is how guys from Ireland or who have never played the game get taught and end up good kicks whilst guys who have played their whole life but are bad kicks can't be made better. Classic example is Bartram but then again his degenerative knee issue at the end wouldn't of helped.

Ok I'll update again after training today: FB: Garland Frawley Terlich HB: Watts McDonald Dunn C: M. Jones Jones Grimes HF: Sylvia Dawes Blease FF: Howe Clark Byrnes Foll: Jamar McKenzie Rodan Int: Sellar, Jetta, Viney Sub: Toumpas Emer: Tapscott, Gillies, Pedersen I think we play Clark even underdone and try to stretch their defense it also gives us another target with Sellar and Dawes. Big Mitch can play mainly FF as long as the club are confident on Dawes. I don't like debuting guys as the sub but I think with Toumpas he'd be a really great addition to come in when the heat is out of the game a bit. I wanted to play Kent somewhere as well but I don't want too many debutantes. I don't really know what the plans are with the 6th and 7th defender but I've gone with Terlich and Jetta off the bench but the club could just name a 6th defender and use Grimes in a rotation. A lot of spots pick themselves and we don't so much have a selection headache from too many good players but a selection headache due to too many we aren't sure about.

One thing is for certain is if the players all work much much harder than before and follow the game plan the kicking will at least appear to be improved. With more time and space and a great area to kick into its much easier to nail a good kick. You don't often complain about how bad the kicking was when you win. Another thing with us is that poor handballing has been as much our down fall as poor kicking. If we start when the contested ball and handballing to someone in space then the kicking will improve. 2 main drills the guys have done many times I've seen them has been a match simulation aiming to get the ball out of defense and and also a set up and move the ball quickly from defense. The second drill needs a couple of well placed kicks to get the ball into the corridor then out wide before attacking. I'm glad our backline has been practising something more interesting than bombing it down the line. The question is come Sunday whether we will have the runners to use those attacking plays or will have to bomb down the line due to poor work ethic.

For all my reports in this thread to be honest I can't shed too much light on that. Both moved well and kicked well in the full ground drills (2 main ones) and did the rest of the training. But then again so did Terlich. Based on training they wouldn't look out of place but really it's what they've done under pressure in games that will decide it. As I said before Nicholson just ran some laps so he might not be tracking so well. Dunn and Watts looked good.

Correction pedersen now practicing his ruck work as well. I don't mind the bomb if it gets deep to a tall but its more a rush kick to a flank is too easy to defend and counter attack from.

James sellar practicing some Ruck work late. Might be an indication they leave pedersen out and go with sellar and whatever combo of Dawes and clark

Don't know where port got the funds for this helicopter hovering over training for the last 15 minutes but they really could of just come and watched. Nice to see big maxy gawn back rucking. He's a super important player long term for us

Tom couch has finished up, maybe he has to work like all the other VFL players. Pickles, toumpas and Barry practicing getting ground balls under pressure. The others have split into positional groups. Dawes is moving well. The players doing a nice job of testing out his hammy. And now he's headed to the side line but seems ok. Our clearance midfielders seem happy with just bombing it. I'd say if they've got clear possession then a sequence of handballs and an accurate kick would be better but then again they have no other players. This drill might have been more about combining with the rucks

Jetta in white as well. I'd say this drill would be important for the small defenders. The intensity in this drill is pretty good. Don't expect too much from Barry he's still adapting to pace of training mentally. It might be a long year for him but he'll get through. Garland copped a knock on the shoulder but is fine. He's looking to re enter the drill with the orange safety vest. Seems to be like he wouldn't mind wearing it in a game.

We've split into whites and blues. Most of the starting 22 in blue, Tom McDonald and watts in white as is Strauss and terlich. Drill is about moving ball from backline for white whilst blue defends so explains teams Viney and jt kick to kicking. Viney's kicking will frustrate early in his career like a young nath jones

Nicholson just doing laps as well. Kent and mckenzie back to the rooms. Jordie might be acting as his lawyer at the tribunal tonight. We've gone into a full ground drill now. It's a bit windy. Rohan bail hit sellar lace out. There's a really cute trainer. If she's on demonland and reads this later she should pm me.

Found Matt jones and Sylvia. Training as they play they must have gone missing for a quarter. Clark, blease and trengove now having shots for goal. Obviously on reduced training but did a full warm up. Grimes, Viney, frawley, stark and couch doing kick to kick. Today's remedial kicking class?? Whilst main group practice picking ball off deck and hand balling to running player with pressure

Initial live update. Around 18 watchers here for the big day. Gary loin chop stretcher Lyon gracing us with his presence Magically mystery players not sighted in Sylvia and Matt jones. Clisby and Jonah Lomu's skinny cousin walking laps same as Fitzy and Joel too old McDonald. Mckenzie and kent doing reduced training by themselves.

I thought he was a teacher not a lawyer. But teachers are just as adept at talking BS. He'll do something to completely screw us soon (worse than the tanking stuff) and I'll hate him again but my current thoughts on Demetriou is he's started to listen to his own preaching about how the game is good and stopped stuffing with it. He's let the rules clowns out of the box again but I think now he's got the new teams up and running and a good TV deal he's mainly pushing a status quo style. It's why I prefer the devil we know than someone else. I like the Mark Evans appointment. I like that they've tackled concussion, illicit drugs, got roped into performance enhancing drugs and are at least thinking about equalisation. They are 4 issues that could derail the AFL if not dealt with promptly. We wont have much of a league if half the players are on drugs of one sort or the other, half the clubs are broke and can't win and all the players are suing the league.

But the AFL aren't that interested in narrowing the gap. What they want is to maximize profits. Which means getting a big club in the big stadium. Plus they can't really control who plays where in regard to Carlton ringing up their old CEO Steven Gough who's head of the MCC and saying lets get a deal done. I think we are right to be concerned, that's not MFCSS. The real shame of MFCSS is we see threats ahead and become pessimistic and don't actually do anything. We as supporters should buy memberships and attend all games, without fail or excuse. We have an advantage of strong MCC membership within our club that gets us leverage with regards to playing there. The MCC would certainly have a tough time pushing us out and upset a lot of members, but if we start averaging better crowds and then we take it to the next level. It's something to think about when its raining and we are struggling and you are tossing up whether to go the game. The AFL is only going to be more ruthless when Demetriou leaves and McLaughlin comes in and starts his dealmaking regime.