DeeSpencer

I'm not convinced Mitch White will be kept on. I really like his kicking and the way he competes but he's very slow and I'm not sure a slow medium sized defender has a great future at AFL level. If we get Hibberd and Melksham, Lumumba gets healthy and plays on, Joel Smith comes on, then White might struggle to ever play games and his development will suffer. It would be a tough call but it wouldn't completely shock me. Similarly Max King has had another injury interrupted and underwhelming year where he's been poor in the ruck and hasn't exactly stood out forward either, but if you were ever going to give a guy one more year it would be a ruckman right? Would redrafting King for one more year on the rookie list (or even promoting him) instead of keeping either Dawes or Pedersen change much? We know Dawes and Pedersen are only stop gaps who are unlikely to play well consistently. If it's not King we are going to need to grab a mature 2nd ruck/forward somewhere at this years trade/draft process and they are very hard to find.

We've got more spots on the main list available than players to fill them. He'll be promoted. If we had decent options to replace them and ways to get out of a few contracts we could move on up to a dozen from the senior list. That won't be the case but there's still going to be more than enough spots. In fact I could see us taking 38 main list and 6 rookies next year because after the early 4th round of the draft you may as well take extra rookie players as a cheaper price than more late round picks.

What exactly didn't look right for Jones against Adel - his best game for the year - or against Freo? One poor game is a bit of a leap.

There's a few points: 1. Let's absolutely maximise a positive in the ruck by having 2 rucks v Lycett and Mitch Brown. 2. We need another forward marking target on the long Subi ground. If Hogan and Watts both get up the field there won't be anyone to kick to 3. West Coast's zone defending is their strength and Hogan and Watts up the ground in play can find gaps in that zone. Spencer/Gawn can do the grunt work setting up for the kick down the line. 4. May as well have a look at Spencer now given he's still contracted for next year and Gawn could do with a light week especially given the travel. Points 1 + 2 were how we beat Geelong in Geelong last year.

I'll agree we haven't gone forward but disagree that we've gone backwards. You think competition for spots would increase with picking purely on form in the VFL/AFL side. I think you have to pick players to fulfil the roles and positions which means it's not always so black and white. We both agree it's not ideal and more talent would help! Roos has talked selection at a lost of post game press conferences and it might be the only time his disagreement with Goodwin or others in the coaching team has shown itself. Certainly it's annoying hearing him talk about bringing in fresh legs and not doing it. Sometimes I think he's focused too much on stability but I understand that as stability really was his mandate when he took the job. I'm also a fan of the way Clarkson throws kids in early to the 21st/22nd spot in the team for a taste and rotates them through. That's a smarter long term play than sticking to the exact best 22 mantra. But there should be integrity in selection for most of the side.

Makes the decision to play him early in the year even more baffling, especially since he hadn't had a full preseason. I remember watching him over summer often training with Dom in the rehab group and Dom was far fitter than him and Gus did look a bit heavy. We never got an explanation of what injury he had but he clearly hadn't done a lot of preseason. The positive is that the club went through the problems professionally, found the issue and sorted it. Goodwin doesn't mind going public and I don't hate that either.

He played very well mostly as a forward last year. Doesn't kick a lot of goals but did create more than a few both with and without the ball. His tackling was as good as I've seen in a first year kid last year. He's a very good clearance player and I'd love to get him kicking on his left more, particularly out of stoppages. He was caught a few times yesterday and was king of the hospital handball, but the Saints do play super fast on Etihad and the team were asleep. I don't think he'll be elite either, but if he's very good then the line between that and elite starts to blur and if you pack a team - particularly a midfield - with enough very good players you'll have a great team and at least one of the players will be credited elite even if it's wrong!

The individual run down was explaining on a case by case basis why they've had more of a shot. Some guys have shown better AFL form than ANB did in his 2 games and then played fantastic VFL games when dropped. The other guys play in different positions. Trengove got 3 games. Newton got 2. Depth inside midfielders without a lot of strings to their bow are going to struggle for games given Viney, Jones, Tyson have all been healthy and Oliver was first choice at the start of the year. Absolutely rubbish that ANB has been a victim of a culture of not rewarding players or making players earn selection. And we certainly haven't gone backwards. Remember last year when Howe played every week getting shuffled forward and back depending on where he was less useless? Or when Watts dropped himself then came back straight back in. Or Matt Jones, Bail, Michie and Riley were in and out every 3rd week? We haven't come as far as we would like because the depth is still thin and performances and still inconsistent.

They are all Melbourne FC players??? Kennedy and Harmes got dropped, each played a fantastic VFL game and were back in to the team on the strength of their AFL performance in the season. For most of the year they have been consistent contributors. Harmes' speed and desire to take the game on has seen him trialled on the wing and half back, both positions were we are very short on depth. We've talked about Garlett before and agreed it was probably the right call to put him back before his form turned around. He's inconsistent but has the ability to kick multiple goals and plays in a spot no one else on our list can. 2 goals, decent tackle stats yesterday reflect whilst otherwise playing poorly he's doing his role in some ways. Oscar has benefited from the terrible form of Garland and Dunn. Let's remember he won a battle with Dunn for a spot in the round 1 team and since then Dunn hasn't done anything of note and Garland has also been in bad form. From all reports that terrible form hasn't stopped prior to Sunday. Meanwhile Oscar has shown some signs of improvement. White has been in good form for most of the year at Casey. Got his chance in round 15 once the mid year rookie spot became available. Michie is almost certainly not part of future plans, but a lack of defensive depth saw him trialled on a back flank due to his attributes being somewhat transferable to that role and his consistent VFL form. He had a run of games and didn't do enough. Vandenberg came back quickly from injury but has the ability to play forward and midfield and tackles players with force. He was used to that effect well in wins against Coll and Freo and against Adelaide.

Jeepers 1 loss and people are talking about the club not surviving? Come on. If we turn up each week, pay our memberships and if the club just get a few more smart list and coaching moves right we could have a really good team on our hands. Then if we market that team properly and capitalise on it the club can grow rapidly. We've got: - The best young key forward in the league in Hogan - Possibly the hardest young midfielder in the league in Viney - A pair of young midfielder/forwards who love playing with each other in Petracca and Gus - A number of exciting to watch forwards who can form a really good group in Watts, Kent, Garlett, Weids, Ben Ken - A classy utility who's got the talent to do anything once we get his body right in Salem - we haven't had a player as skilled as Salem since the Daniher years - A young bull of a clearance midfielder with some wonderful hands in Oliver - A fantastic ruckman We are actively trying to do something with the womens football to grow the club. We have made significant changes to the coaching and culture of the club. I get as negative as anyone on the deficiencies of the playing list and the deficiencies/difficulties facing the administration but even I'm above this level of doom and gloom.

Still going with this line despite the fact we've left plenty of talented kids out of the side (Oliver, Hulett, Weeds, Stretch) and played almost everyone who's been doing well in the VFL (Matt Jones, Grimes, White)? It's probably now time for ANB to have another shot. He should've come in based on refreshing the team after Darwin. But there's minimal evidence he's been passed up due to a preference for getting games in to the kids of the future. I'm hoping the long stint in the VFL was to allow ANB to change the way he uses the ball, which he clearly needed to do, both with kicking around the ground and getting the ball out of congestion using his hands. Until he did that his disposal numbers or times in the best were irrelevant because he won't do anything at AFL level if he's not using it better.

Clearly wasn't right when he played early in the season. Since he came back in I thought he played well against Collingwood, Adelaide and Freo. Scrappy with his ball use - he'll never be a sublime user - but crashed in, tackled well and played with good burst. The pace and pressure that the Saints play with at Etihad found him out + whatever the Darwin factor is. If he has to go back to Casey for a few weeks so be it. Overall though I think he'll get his body right at the end of the year he'll be the same player he was last year. Strong at the contest, excellent tackler, good in the air or on the ground. He probably wouldn't be a regular in a top 4-6 side unless his ball use improves or he becomes a truly elite pressure forward but I still think he's got a heap to offer.

Almost certainly an idea from Goodwin and also the Jennings the strategy coach we got from the Dogs/Essendon. I expect those 2 will drive our game plan over the years and that they would be behind the idea to get Melksham and Hibberd. We need some experienced players who can read the play, position themselves accordingly and know when to leave their men and when to play tighter. 4 kids - Hunt, Wagner, White, Oscar in the one backline is always going to be an issue. But I'll stick with my original point in that if Rawling's didn't recognise where the game was going, how to get there and that we needed new players I'm not sure he should stay for the next evolution of our backline.

Surely that doesn't get a week. If he really was aiming to elbow him he would've dropped him. Throwing an arm back to a guy holding you has to be a fine at worst.

I watched the first half. He took a ripping mark on the goal line that the goal umpire decided he juggled when he was just moving it in his hands. Had a few classy handballs, but otherwise isn't physically ready to move like an AFL player. Hulett is more mobile at this stage and I'd be tempted to throw him in but I'd give Spencer first go. Sure he'll stuff up a bunch but he should be able to halve the ruck contests and cover the ground. Gawn looks in nice touch up forward, may as well give him more time there.

FB: Jetta Frost Dunn HB: Vince T Mc Hunt C: Bugg Viney Stretch HF: Kent Hogan Petracca FF: Watts Gawn Garlett Foll: Spencer Jones ANB Int: Harmes Kennedy Wagner Brayshaw Out: M Jones, Grimes, Oscar, White, Tyson, Vanders In: Bugg, Stretch, Frost, Dunn, ANB, Spencer Time to shake things up a bit. Go with 2 rucks and Gawn forward. Let Hogan and Watts roam up the ground more and hopefully get away from McGovern. Give Dunn a go down back on the resting ruck or Darling. Frost to Josh Kennedy, Tom Mc to the left over forward. Go back to Bugg and Stretch on the wings. Try ANB, Harmes, Kennedy and Brayshaw through the midfield/foward mix. Vanders is out. Tyson is unlucky to be dropped but he's too good to have 1 tackle, 20 touch games. Time for him to get the message.

Once a month at best. Jones has done it a fair bit. It's hard to lift the team when you're already carrying it in the last few years. Plus Jones has kicked a number of important captains goals. He's not a superstar of the comp. Viney is probably a better player. But I don't see the need to load Viney up with the responsibility of captaincy just yet. There's no reason he can't lead as much as he wants as the vice captain or leadership group member. Gawn as well. Plus anyone else who'd like to try it.

I'm not sure the zone defending is his idea. But he hasn't improved any players outside of Jetta. And he's been here for years and stuck it out with Garland, Dunn, Grimes as mainstays who just were never going to be good enough and didn't seem to show any desire to play without them. I'll put that on Roos as well. Why are we trying new defenders now in year 3 of his tenure? If the zone defending was his idea it needs to be tweaked and if it wasn't his idea he probably doesn't understand it well enough to know what to do next. I'm not convinced we require him going forward.

Looks like the run up and his kicking action. He doesn't get a lot of momentum on his run up and he then spears the ball low. Jack Riewoldt is the same, and always passes from just outside 50. Compared to Buddy and especially Tex Walker who take their game to the next level by their ability to kick goals from outside 50. I'd love to have Hogan work with a footy biomechanist on his running and kicking.

I just find those stats irrelevant. Rivers was an intercept marking CHB. He use to zone off and mark. Ahead of his time really. Weitering's going to go close to winning the award this year playing somewhat similarly. Talia was a lock down defender who didn't get involved in attacking play, but he was so good at shutting down opponents. If you have stats on his goals conceded, spoils and 1 on 1 wins I'd like them. Weitering played full back on Membrey the other week and had 5 kicked on him.

So Rivers had 4 more touches and 2.5 more marks. Hardly a huge difference. And back in 2004 after the week 2003 draft there weren't a lot of high disposal winners. Rivers would've been 45th for disposals in 2012 and right up there with Talia to win the award. I still have no interest in disposal stats for lock down key defenders. Toby Greene found and butchered a truck load of the ball in his first year. The rest of the GWS midfielders were very exciting but hardly dominant. Same with Wallis. Jeremy Cameron was unlucky not to win the award after kicking 29 goals as rightfully finished 2nd. He and Talia were widely accepted as the clear top 2.

Neil Craig decided it in 2013 and it took 3 years for someone to remember it again. Then again in just his 3rd year in 2011 Watts was a handy forward. Took a long time for that to come back. A lot of his 2014 on a wing was handy as well. Long term I think getting him up the ground to play 3rd man up more than rucking, giving him some time on a wing to find space on tight grounds as well as a mixture of playing deep or half forward will be Watts' go. And the loose backman when required. Finding the balance where he has 1 set position to master (ie. forward) and feel confident in and then rotating him to other spots when it will benefit him and the team not just randomly will have him at his best.

Who wrote that article. It's yuck. But good stuff Wattsy. I wonder what the years will be? Price won't be cheap either! 4 years 650k maybe?

The way Clarko throws kids in early to play certain positions, then often moves them around to develop some different parts of their game (see Sicily playing down back) is really smart. He's willing to sacrifice some percentage and maybe even a win or two to make sure the depth of his list is superior to all his rivals and to make his players well rounded before they develop bad habits. Coaches of other top teams should do it more.

I'm not buying that Clarko doesn't use stats. Fair waste of an MBA if he can't analyse some basic stats. That said, I'm almost certain he doesn't use the ones everyone else does (as all clubs would be different) and he's not going to publicly announce what he values. I'm sure he has statistical ways to measure the ball movement based game plan that he favours, and ways of quantifying the team defending. Hopefully the AFL allow more stats for the general public and for journos so the quality of footy analysis improves. As for Hawthorn not following some of the more traditional stats, come the biggest game of the year they've found a way to win most of them. 2015: Clearances (-6), centre clear (=), inside 50's (+19), contested poss (+16) 2014: Clearances (+2), centre clear (-2), inside 50's (+20), contested poss (+10) 2013: Clearances (+8), centre clear (-1), inside 50's (+1), contested poss (+1)