Radar Detector

I agree. And it's amazing how people can use statistics to make a point at any given time. We are currently performing poorly in tackles and hard-ball gets so Bailey should be sacked. Maybe he should have been given a three year extension this time last year when we were flying in those categories. The fact that I have seen the current team do the basics well for extended periods in 2009 suggests this issue is not Bailey's coaching. We are 2.5 wins from 5 and in the eight despite playing terribly in basically every game. There is time for Bailey and the players to turn this around.

Well said by all. Crowd for the Crows game last year was 23k. Can't see it being too much different. Probably lower when you factor in Mothers' Day. I would guess 19,500.

Where is the info on this?

The underlying trend is not downwards, it is upwards. The second degree trend is downwards but that is to be expected. To illustrate, we would actually need to achieve 18 wins this year for Nasher's chart not to taper off somewhat... which would surely sit us in the top two at years end. And realistically, nobody could expect our rate of improvement to be anything close to linear. In fact, given our personnel changes, a ratio of 40% at years end wouldn't be the end of the world. I just want to be able to leave each gaming feeling like the 22 players in red and blue had a crack which we have not seen so far this year. How much of that is Bailey and how much of it is the players I am not yet sure. Hopefully the players can turn it around and this issue will go away. Deep down I don't think that Green, Davey, Chip et al can continue to play this badly for ever. Well said. This issue is far from black and white and more information is needed before a decision is made on Bailey. It's far easier to think that the coach is the root of all evil and a quick switch will fix everything. Seems to have worked for Essendon (so far) and hasn't for Port. Either way, potting the coach in round 6 is lunacy. If we are still having the same discussions in round 16, that's a different story.

Back on topic though, I find it really astounding that Green's captaincy is being called into question. He is down, yes, but I can't think of a single player that would've been any better. Davey is in equally poor form, Moloney as captain would have been a PR disaster if we think back three weeks and Rivers, Jones and Grimes are battling manfully but hardly commanding of the captaincy. The only other option might be the Big Russian but he isn't even in the leadership group. Brad Green is still the man right now and we should back him to turn the tide. A bit of ball forward of centre may help.

I agree, although my definition of champion is probably even tighter than yours. I think Judd is the only one of those three who commands the title. Hodge and Pendlebury are elite, no doubt, but champion is a term that should be reserved for a handful that produce elite performances over a very long period of time. Ablett, Riewoldt, Brown and Judd. I put Hodge and Pendlebury in the next rung down but Melbourne have nobody in this category either. Previously Neitz probably would have scraped in here. And Stynes and Lyon before him. Green and perhaps Davey sit in the rung below which is where most of Melbourne's "greats" of the last two decades have been. McDonald, Viney, Yze, Tingay, White and probably Bruce. All matchwinners on their day but "on their day" can be a pretty big caveat.

I like this suggestion. I'd also swap Wonna and Bennell for Maric and Petterd. Not because I think either has torn it up at Casey, just because I feel like we need more competition for spots to encourage the desperation that has been sorely lacking from the playing group. Wonna and Bennell don't bring the intensity required at the moment - Wonna peters out after a quarter and Bennell has never shown it at all. On watch are Davey, Green, Frawley and Jurrah.

Yeah, I like the idea of Davey on a flank but would love Joel Mac in the side to release Grimes into the middle.

I can assure you I'm as gutted as anyone by how the team is performing right now and I expected a lot more but most of it is effort. Our leaders are simply nowhere near the calibre of those at some other clubs but I feel that if the team collectively had the right attitude, this wouldn't matter so much. In any event, I hope our climb isn't as slow as history suggests it will be.

I'm not excusing our performances so far this year or taking the easy way out. But ignoring where we've been as recently as 2009 is ridiculous. Carlton made their first final three years after finishing last. St Kilda four. Geelong three years after their superdraft of 2001 - oh, and they also missed the finals in 2006 altogether before starting their assault on the top four in 07. Hawthorn bottomed out twice in 2001 and 2004 before they made their first finals series in 2007 - a full six years after drafting the guys like Hodge and Mitchell who led them to the 2008 flag. In many ways, we are a lot like Hawthorn who lacked leadership in the early 2000s and didn't fire until those guys hit their mid 20s. I'm not saying we should be waiting six or seven years for a finals appearance or a tilt at the flag but we are coming from a lot further back than most of these other sides. Don't kid yourself into thinking we're further advanced than we are. In the meantime though, we should at least expect that our players will put their head over the ball and have a real crack. Something that's been missing in pretty much every game this year.

But we're not four years down the road. We finished last 18 months ago... We're really only two years in from our "bottom out". People forget this.

This is just patently untrue. The only club to race to a flag after their rebuild is Hawthorn. St Kilda, Geelong and Collingwood all took around 7 years after bottoming out which would have us as a flag contender in 2016. Carlton is another who bottomed before us but is still climbing. This doesn't excuse some of the rubbish we have served up this year but there is no evidence we are progressing any slower than others before us. Even Essendon is a bit ahead of us in their rebuild. Don't forget they made the finals in '09 with a young list while we were "winning" our last spoon. Last year was an anomoly year for the Bombers IMO.

I was thinking the same thing... Racked up 27 touches with his usual dose of clangers and his 18yo opponent kicked three. Would've thought he was way off votes.

I think in the wake of that loss and with so many pushing for Selection at Casey, we should consider a number of changes. I for one don't care as much about the result next week (or any week at this stage) as endeavour and injecting half a dozen guys desparate to hold their spot for the next week may spark a change in attitude. I have watched every minute of every game so far this season and would argue that we have played no more than four good quarters of footy for the whole season on the back of insipid endeavour. The desparation isn't there. I would make the following changes for next week: Maric for Wonna - Maric went out on the back of one ordinary performance, Wonna is yet to play a a good game Petterd for Morton - Ricky has to be in the team. Morton looks like he is coasting and his skills so far this year have been atrocious Newton or Bate for Dunn - Would like to see where both Newton and Bate are at given their form at Casey. Dunn is a pea heart. Am shattered that Strauss is injured as I would've loved to see him come in for Bennell who I feel has not fired a shot this year. He gets no numbers and seemingly survives on one or two flashes a game. He has no will for the contest at all. Given he can't come in: Joel Mac for Bennell - At least gives us some toughness and might allow Grimes into the midfield where his inept kicking won't directly result in goals to the opposition And the most controversial: Warnock for Frawley - I honestly don't think Warnock would offer any less than Chip is giving at the moment and we should take this opportunity to reward his great from for Casey. Chip could use a week to gain some confidence. Others on notice include Davey, Green, Grimes and Jurrah. Gysberts deserves more chances and at least puts his head over the ball. Can't see any issues with finding room for Jordie and Sculls when they're fit again.

There was a lot more ball heading into WCEs forward line tonight. Watts looked every bit a number 1 pick to me tonight in a performance where his team did him no favours at all.

It's one of those games where you feel like awarding "best player" votes is a joke. Given votes will be awarded anyway: 6. Jones 5. Watts 4. Garland 3. Trengove Not giving any more votes cos we have too many pea hearts on our list - Bennell and Morton take a bow - but they have plenty of company. At least we'll be able to find room for Petterd, Maric and possibly even Strauss next week.

Tonight at 5pm. Not sure why we're playing on a Thursday, strange time, but I'm happy that it breaks up what is already a short week. Looking forward to the telecast tomorrow night!

And this is one of the reasons I do no fear the Gold Coast like many on here. We have seen first hand that not all high draft picks will be able to lead you to a flag (Trapper and Brock spring to mind). Sure, the Gold Coast have a huge concentration of high picks in one year but looking back through history, only a handful of the top twenty picks in any given year (at most) will become stars of the game. Some of them will be honest B-graders and some will be abject failures. We are well in front of GCS at this stage as we have had the ability to sift a lot of the mediocre players off our list over time and have added good talent every year. We have also done extremely well from the pre season and rookie drafts in recent years (way above average IMO) with massive wins like Jurrah, McKenzie and even Stef Martin starting to look the goods. This year Evans and Nicholson look particularly likely from that crop. GCS will have to do their time like everyone else, there is no siver bullet. Which brings us to the nexus of RPFC's arguments which I (naively to some) agree with whole-heartedly. We have been as bad as any side over the last couple of decades if you think back a mere two years. We have been able to assemble as talented a list as anyone but the group of talent is so young and inexperienced that you cannot realistically expect the results that some on here expect. We are still the second youngest side in the comp and younger than last year! We have come an enormously long way in a short space of time while continuing to add extremely talented youth to the list. We will and do continue to improve. Whether people can accept it or not, we need to give this group a little more time. It's just the way it is. The flag by [insert year] or bust notion is just a myth.

I could not agree more with this post. Spot on. People should not get too far ahead of themselves or we risk compromising what we're trying to build. We don't want to be the current Carlton or Sydney teams who are constantly thereabouts but never seriously challenge. We want to be Collingwood or Geelong.

Your views on Watts are so extreme as to be hard to take seriously. He did some good things yesterday in a single quarter of footy and there have been several worse than him this year. Just by way of comparison, Watts has had more contested marks, contested possessions, tackles and 1%s than Dunn this year despite less game time. His work ethic stacks up pretty well. He is also not far behind on total marks per game and disposals per game. In fact, if you adjust for the fact that Watts has been subbed twice and has played the equivalent of three games versus Dunn's four, he is ahead on those stats too. The only stat Dunn is clearly in front is goals. I suggest you consider carefully before taking such extreme positions. Watts is taking time but will be a very good player for us. He is streets ahead of where Dunn was at the same stage and you still seem to think there's improvement in Dunn...

6. Moloney 5. Sylvia 4. Trengove 3. Jones 2. Bail 1. Davey

Was at the ground today. Definitely smaller than the G but not so much so that it would impact the run and carry. Incidentally, it's a cracking venue to watch the footy. Green's goalkicking was reasonably rubbish today, even from in front. Definitely seems to have lost his consistency from last year. Has been unreliable all year.

Agree that the sub is a tough gig and Morton is not neccessarily the right type, but he played about as rubbish a quarter as I have seen from anyone.

Agree with the OP. Strauss would be worth a run on the wing. Could be a real weapon if he starts to get his hands on it.

I think there is a noticeable difference between how he's moving this year to last year. Last year he repeatedly ran to the wrong spots and blew up a number of times pretty early in games. I am not seeing that this year. I think he is being hurt firstly by the fact that, aside from three quarters so far this year, the team has been quite stagnant as we move the ball forward. If nobody is moving, it doesn't create a lot of space for guys like Watts to lead into. Interestingly, he isn't being overshadowed by any of our other forwards (Jurrah and Green included) in terms of marks this year either which suggests the problem isn't isolated to him. I tend to think the frequency of delivery and the quality of decision making by the mids has been abysmal for the most part and the whole forward set-up is suffering. I also think he is not being helped by playing so far up the ground. He has barely played a minute as the focal target forward and I don't understand why they wouldn't give him some time in that role. I would love to see aforward fifty of Jurrah, Watts and Aussie isolated and see what he can do in those circumstances. I may be wrong on both counts but they're my observations.