Adam The God

I'm going to keep pushing this barrow. Merrett for Weideman and our future first. Enough?

You'd have to think we might look at Harmes or Brayshaw as tradeable. Harmes' contract, unless it's small, may stand against him. Is this why Harmes was played out of position the entire year? Clutching at straws, AF. I'd trade Weideman for Merrett. Essendon need a KPF...

I reckon the De Goey stuff is posturing, otherwise his value has really decreased. They'll be in trouble in the next 2-3 years Carlton if they land all these players and don't make finals. Their list is ageing and they won't have much cap space in a few years to hold anyone who becomes a star.

It'd just be about how we sort that large Polec contract...

Obviously, Richardson isn't currently a line coach, but I wonder what he'd think of taking on the role of Development coach as well as overseeing coaching? He did start as a development coach. With reduced soft cap to go around, if we could get 5 line coaches to take care of our needs that'd be great. Forward / Match Day Strategy & Opposition (his role in 2020 at Hawthorn) - Adem Yze Midfield - Adam Kingsley / Matthew Knights Back - Leppitsch (still hopeful ) Ruck - Greg Stafford (or someone new...) Development & Director of Coaching - Alan Richardson

Yeah, you're so level-headed, Doc.

Not really comparable there. Sure, I get them posting, but not sure it breeds much loyalty within the ranks of the club to be celebrating past defectors. I'm not saying we have to snipe, I just don't think it's warranted. What were your thoughts on the third season of Breaking Bad?

Sure, that's not the point I was making though. I don't think the club needed to say anything.

"The basic point was that it's clear we haven't handled our cap the way we should have. The evidence is everywhere." You then proceeded to base this on... Tom McDonald? Ridiculous. Again, that's not what I'm debating you on. I agree and have already said "If this is aimed at me, I agree. We need to be successful and at the very least, that means playing finals regularly, otherwise we'll shed important players and go backwards." What I'm taking issue with is your hyperbole, such as there's evidence everywhere that we've mishandled our cap. It's a ridiculous statement and you should be called out for it.

Thanks for posting that @Demonland. I caught up on the last 2 pages and then read your most recent one. Very disappointing. :P

I wonder if this did happen whether it'd bring in other clubs like us. We get deals done and don't leave players hanging like Essendon do. Managers know this too.

I find it odd that our club is acknowledging Frawley publicly. It's not a good look IMV.

Just wild hyperbole again. Tom McDonald and Oscar McDonald are possibly the most inconsistent players you've witnessed play the game? They're both perfectly consistent. Both have played far more ordinary football than good. Again, I'd argue that we haven't handled our cap badly. And Pickett was recruited as the small specialist forward. What else do you think he was recruited for? And we're not stuck between a rock and a hard place at all. Add one or two outside receivers like Smith and/or Polec and it changes the look of our midfield immediately. Add another draftee (we always like to get back into the first round if we've targeted someone we think will offer something different to our midfield) and it's possible to transform our midfield in one off season. Again, Tomlinson... not a bad signing.

I don't believe Goodwin's career and Smith's contract have to be tied to each other. I think Smith's recruitment could be good whether Goodwin keeps his job or not.

Is Tom staying or are we trying to get more value out of a trade deal for both parties?

I'd say we wanted Yze, Voss and Leppitsch. Reckon we'll get at least one of them.

I could agree with these points. Though I'm comfortable enough with Harmes' contract, though a 4 year deal would have been sufficient. We have no idea whether that was front or back ended or what type of money that was though. Disagree with these points. RE: Lever and May, we had to build our midfield first, which took 2014-2016 and then we went after Lever and May. You can't just bring in your whole squad one time. That's fairyland stuff IMV. It takes time. Did we overpay for Lever and May? Maybe. But you have to in order to get good players in the door. RE: Tomlinson, I don't recall him being beaten when he went back to defence. Turned out to be a very good move. We also have a guy who can play wing, ruck or half forward if we need. He's a flexible signing and we're not absolutely sure we paid the world for him. Does this mean we can't go after another defensive option? No. Disagree about our list management. As mentioned, I don't think you can do it all in two to three years. It takes time. May has at least another 3-4 years, as does Max IMV. But I agree that I want us to attack trade period hard and would be willing to give up a good midfielder and a good pick for a player of Merrett's calibre and what he'd offer our midfield. This year was ultimately a failure, but anything less than top 6 next year will be a failure too. I expect us to be around that mark next year, provided we can stay fit, add the players we need to this off season and keep Burgess or get another comparable fitness boss. In poor old Demonland's defence, I don't think anyone is saying it was acceptable, just that we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater either. From what I've heard, Saad was way out of our price range. I don't want to compromise Oliver, Petracca and anyone else we may want to sign moving forward by signing a zippy half backer on bigger dollars than either of those guys. Ridiculous. We put our offer in and it wasn't high enough. We move on. If this is aimed at me, I agree. We need to be successful and at the very least, that means playing finals regularly, otherwise we'll shed important players and go backwards. Once again, you're dismissiveness towards "many on here" is overplayed and hyperbolised. As if it's invisible. There's a difference between being hysterical, which this post borders on and being aggressive at the trade table. The latter is perfectly reasonable and what we should doing. Smith is definitely one I'd like to bring across.

We're saying just about the same thing mate, but I'm saying he's elite already. I just think it's the difference between A grade and A+ grade.

Totally agree, mate. It's why I was harsher on Max this year too. I just don't think we're getting bang for our buck from him, given he could barely get off the ground in the second half of the year. As you say, our defence is solid, hopefully we can add another winger or two to compliment Langdon and fix our midfield and I completely concur. Top 4 is a reasonable aim. I'd be spending big on a midfield coach, get Yze to look after the forwardline or strategy, and look at two others and Stafford being the ruck coach and that's it. I wonder if Stafford is an issue?

I think coaching does play some part in maximising Oliver's dominance though. The fact that he, Petracca and Viney were all dominant contested ball winners this year and we often lost overall clearance, means that our coaching is not good enough in that area of the ground IMO. I think a new midfield coach will take Clarry to another level.

He is top 5 now. He doesn't need to dominate finals to be a top 5 midfielder. That's not a good argument. I think the "driving with my legs" and "[setting] up a few more attacking plays" are the things Oliver needs to and will work on, but consistency IMO isn't one of them. As @deanox's excellent post above highlights, Oliver's consistency and level for a player of his age is unmatched. I'd say Oliver is comfortably A grade, even on the cusp of A+ grade, but will walk to A+ status if he can hit the scoreboard more/get involved in scores from clearance more and accelerate out of stoppages more consistently.

I hope we've put a 5 year extension in front of Oliver. If we haven't, we're asleep at the wheel.

On the surface it's one year too many, but I would have thought we'd front load at least the first 2-3 years quite heavily. I like that he's signed from a culture stand point. I remain staunch in my belief that he needs to play forward or defensive mid/tagger. I'd be happy if he was collecting 15 possessions a game as long as he's mauling the opposition in the tackle count and making the right decisions when he does win the ball. My best 22 would have him starting in the forward pocket alongside Pickett and Weideman.

Let's say Cripps, Walsh and Williams were to play mid together (and I'm not convinced Williams will), they've got Curnow as well and that's about it.

Unless they see it as a chance to rebuild, but they'll want more than we can likely provide them.